voting procedures for Green party conference at weekend.

Spiritoftheseventies · 08-10-2009 9:03am #1

have i got this straight? Two motions being put to the floor. One of the programme for governent which needs a two thirds majority and NAMA leglislation which needs a two thirds rejection (from what i heard on Morning Ireland this morning)
Why are the two separate? Surely NAMA is at the centre of this?

Darragh29 · 08-10-2009 9:13am

bayviewclose wrote: »

have i got this straight? Two motions being put being the floor. One of the programme for governent which needs a two thirds majority and NAMA leglislation which needs a two thirds rejection.
Why are the two separate? Surely NAMA is at the centre of this?

I imagine it's to insulate the NAMA issue, so that if the vote on remaining in government is passed, but the NAMA one should fail (which is where the real risk of defeat is if I understand things correctly), that they can come back with, "oh, we passed the remaining in government motion, we just need to work a bit on this NAMA thing and then we're home and dry".

Basically it gives them the opportunity to go back to Fianna Fail to have NAMA changed if the other motion is passed but the NAMA one fails. Then they can have a second party conference and have a second vote on the issue, "because after all, we have a motion passed by our members to stay in government so we have to listen to our members and bring their serious concerns on NAMA to Fianna Fail and WORK WITH our partners in government"...

That's the kind of horse sh*t I imagine we'll be listening to on Saturday evening...

A Primal Nut · 08-10-2009 9:18am

I agree with you in some ways Darragh, but if thats the case it should be the other way around. The actual situation is that the "stay in Government" is harder to pass than the NAMA legislation. Assume everyone votes the same way in both: then they will support NAMA but have to dissolve the Government!

Darragh29 · 08-10-2009 9:24am

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I agree with you in some ways Darragh, but if thats the case it should be the other way around. The actual situation is that the "stay in Government" is harder to pass than the NAMA legislation. Assume everyone votes the same way in both: then they will support NAMA but have to dissolve the Government!

Well there was a discussion on this subject this morning on Newstalk 106 with Ivan Yeats and a guy who is in the Green Party but is also in a sub group of the GP called "Greens Against NAMA", it appears that there is a hard core of Green Party members who are well organised and are affiliated with this "Greens Against NAMA" group and are completely and entirely opposed to NAMA... The other difficulties with Fianna Fail have not really caused an organised core group of members to form around I think...

I think they have this one well thought out at party leadership level... I think they have worked out that they can frighten the bejesus out of the softer members at the thoughts of another election and the hostility that is out there right now, with thoughts like, "people are fu*king hopping mad out there and you guys think it will be easy canvassing out there now in that environment", and this will have the effect of keeping many members on board.

As for the NAMA issue, you are dealing with a hard core of idealogically opposed members there who will not be frightened into a particular course of action...

turgon · 08-10-2009 9:41am

What time on Saturday evening are these votes?

Darragh29 · 08-10-2009 9:56am

turgon wrote: »

What time on Saturday evening are these votes?

Dunno but it is all happening down in the RDS...

Spiritoftheseventies · 08-10-2009 12:02pm

Greens fudging the issue on NAMA. Either they are for and against it. Sending a message to Cowen is no good. Browne showed green Councillor their pre election manifesto which contained thirteen election promises. not one had been implemented (Councillor actually told Browne to tear list up as the circumstances were different).
So should we expect FF to take Greens concerns re NAMA on board. Greens should do decent thing and pull out now.
The only concession i can see FFers given greens is maybe park and ride facilities at Dail Eireann at this stage!

Darragh29 · 08-10-2009 12:07pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

Greens fudging the issue on NAMA. Either they are for and against it. Sending a message to Cowen is no good. Browne showed green Councillor their pre election manifesto which contained thirteen election promises. not one had been implemented (Councillor actually told Browne to tear list up as the circumstances were different).
So should we expect FF to take Greens concerns re NAMA on board. Greens should do decent thing and pull out now.
The only concession i can see FFers given greens is maybe park and ride facilities at Dail Eireann at this stage!

I think turkeys don't vote for Christmas and these guys will not pull the plug on this spectacle unless they get seriously seriously rattled on Saturday and I doubt that will happen as there is no real sign of a protest to tell them what they should be doing. The Green's are going to end up looking like the utter clowns at the end of all this... Savage cuts are coming this December and they will have to vote for these cuts. At the end of the day, people have given up on Fianna Fail, they don't have any expectation of Fianna Fail acting in the national interest, so the Green's are going to take the flack come December...

Spiritoftheseventies · 08-10-2009 12:10pm

Greens thinking seems to be that if they vote these two proposals down they will spend the next fifteen years in the wilderness. I say if they dont, it will be an abyss they will be facing. People would at least respect them for putting their political needs aside and do what is right for the country.

bSlick · 08-10-2009 12:29pm

This vote is basically a Green vote of confidence in FF after all the corruption, incompetence, bailout, golden handshakes and the absolute mess they've made of the Irish economy. Ok the Greens mighn't fare so well if we have an election in the very near future. Altho I could see them getting a few votes for showing some moral courage and integrity if they pulled the plug on this farce. However if they vote to stay in government with FF this weekend after all the disgraceful goings on they will be signing their own death warrant and will be completely wiped off the map come the next election and they won't get a look in for a decade or more. People will remember the way the greens vote on saturday for a long time.

Spiritoftheseventies · 08-10-2009 5:31pm

What I am hearing and its being going around a lot in last few days (first on front line and today on Last word) that a lot of green party members may vote in in favour of two proposals if ban on Fur farming is included in programme for government.
According to guy who runs a mink farm up north, Minks are killed by Carbon Monoxide. Animals rights say it is inhumane to kill them just for the pelts and nothing else.
Guy who runs this family business says they are operating within guidelines yet Greens are prepared to kick this mans business into touch.
Again Greens environmental and animal rights are being tied in with jobs. Bill Cullen has also had a go at them over the issue of eco friendly cars which have driven sales down.
Seems to me, Greens should not be pushing these issues at these times.
If they want to be taken seriously, they need to make a stand on NAMA. Small businesses are falling by the wayside and even as late as yesterday, Cowen had not given assurances to Kenny that banks would lend out to small businesses.
Time to get priorities right.

mike65 · 08-10-2009 5:33pm

I copy this over from the other Green thread

Was anyone listening to Rory Houlihan a green party member on The Last Word? He wasn't an elected rep at any level but leads a group within the party. The future of the government appears to lie with fur farms being made illegal. If it happens (or rather a commitment is made) then this lobby group will vote yes to stay, if not they vote to pull the plug.

If this is the case they should be gorsewhipped. Not horsewhipped cos nags have a central nervous syatem.

Spiritoftheseventies · 08-10-2009 5:44pm

Even with IKea, Greens were powerless to act. You have a place right on the M50 roundabout which leads to all sorts of pollution given the congestion it will produce. Greens say they are better in power than in opposition and yet you would be hard pressed to see what impact they have made.
As said before they have the chance to kick this whole NAMA thing into touch at the weekend. And if they take a hit at next election so be it but at least they will bounce back from it.
If after weekend they choose to keep FF regime in power, public I dont think will be as forgiving.

voting procedures for Green party conference at weekend.

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