Killer mic's for acoustic guitars etc.......

petermaher

Anyone any suggestions/opinions regarding mic's for acoustic instruments, guitars, mando etc........ Looking for a stereo pair. Just interested in suggestions based on experience.:)

DamagedTrax

cant beat 414s

i also like akg 451s in an XY on acoustic. but i find you have to be careful if the player is very "attacky" (is that even a word?)

re27 tracked thru a vari mu comp is lovely if you want something a little more edgy

petermaher

DamagedTrax wrote: »

cant beat 414s

i also like akg 451s in an XY on acoustic. but i find you have to be careful if the player is very "attacky" (is that even a word?)

re27 tracked thru a vari mu comp is lovely if you want something a little more edgy

Ya, I have 414s and 451s but I was thinking more on the upper end turbo posh side of things, dpa etc........

DamagedTrax

petermaher wrote: »

Ya, I have 414s and 451s but I was thinking more on the upper end turbo posh side of things, dpa etc........

ahh.. not my pond yet im afraid

PaulBrewer

Km 184s ?

petermaher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Km 184s ?

You sold me a pair P. I even paid you for them!!;) I was thinkin' after seein' knopflers dvd (that came with his new album) about a posh XY pair on the body and something sparkly on the 12th r something like that. That seemed to be what they were using but I've no idea what the mic's were. Too young i guess;)

old gregg

yo Peter, I'm out of my depth on this one (being a purely electronic laptop musician, so go easy on me) but didn't the Valvet X sound like it would be perfect for acoustic instruments? .. hell, I'd like one of those puppies just to help boost my self esteem

PaulBrewer

petermaher wrote: »

You sold me a pair P. I even paid you for them!!;) I was thinkin' after seein' knopflers dvd (that came with his new album) about a posh XY pair on the body and something sparkly on the 12th r something like that. That seemed to be what they were using but I've no idea what the mic's were. Too young i guess;)

Oh ....:o

jtsuited

the DPA 4006's work well on guitar in my experience. not that much better than a set of 184's though.

PaulBrewer

petermaher wrote: »

posh XY pair on the body and something sparkly on the 12th

How do intend panning those ?:rolleyes:

trackmixstudio

If I recommend mics you will only go to the distributor and tell them you are a mate of mine to get a deal:p

Seriously though I have heard great reports about Earthworks mics on acoustic instruments. Enda from futuresounds would lend you a pair to try out I'm sure.

petermaher

old gregg wrote: »

yo Peter, I'm out of my depth on this one (being a purely electronic laptop musician, so go easy on me) but didn't the Valvet X sound like it would be perfect for acoustic instruments? .. hell, I'd like one of those puppies just to help boost my self esteem

Nice one gregg, you just reminded me I still have that session here so I'll have a listen, although I was thinking more along the lines of dpa or anything anyone might suggest that's specifically for acoustics. Cheers for the reminder anyway:)

petermaher

trackmixstudio wrote: »

If I recommend mics you will only go to the distributor and tell them you are a mate of mine to get a deal:p

Gassssssp!! Nail him up I say!!:D

Seriously though I have heard great reports about Earthworks mics on acoustic instruments. Enda from futuresounds would lend you a pair to try out I'm sure.

Ya, I thought of earthworks, must do some reading up on them. Cheers:)

petermaher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

How do intend panning those ?:rolleyes:

Hmmm, which ever way suits p. Mainly I'm thinkin of a single acoustic track, XY pair panned L/R, the balance of the channels will determine where it sits in the stereo field and then something like a 451 to add a bit of sparkle if needed panned wherever suits.

PaulBrewer

petermaher wrote: »

Hmmm, which ever way suits p. Mainly I'm thinkin of a single acoustic track, XY pair panned L/R, the balance of the channels will determine where it sits in the stereo field and then something like a 451 to add a bit of sparkle if needed panned wherever suits.

Sort of a L, L, R buzz ? Pah !

Will I send ya down some Earthworks ? Which model ?


I got some in for Brian to try on drums ...

Seziertisch

Ribbon mic? I thought the SE ribbon stood head and shoulders above the condensers on the day in your studio. I am demoing an AEA R84 at the moment and it is one of the best sounding and versatile mics I have come across. Rupert Cobb talked about how he always still tracked acoustic guitars to tape for the effect that tape compression had on transients. I think a lot of condensers can bring stuff out on acoustic instruments that might not be necessarily 100% desirable whereas a good ribbon softens the edge off things quite nicely. AFAIK the AEA R84 is presently Pete Townshend's acoustic guitar mic of choice.

petermaher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Sort of a L, L, R buzz ? Pah !

Will I send ya down some Earthworks ? Which model ?


I got some in for Brian to try on drums ...

Well what would you be goin for, earthworks or dpa? For that dan tyminski(alison krauss) buzz.;)

PaulBrewer

petermaher wrote: »

Well what would you be goin for, earthworks or dpa? For that dan tyminski(alison krauss) buzz.;)

I don't know ....

DPA used be known as B+K and were always known as a super accurate mic i.e. it imparts little of it's on personality on the sound.

I haven't heard Earthworks though I bought (and returned!) a pair years ago cos they were shyt and noisy as phuck.

One hopes they've improved since then.

What did you think of the sE Ribbon at The Show ? I'd fallen asleep with boredom by then ...;)

Seziertisch

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I don't know ....

DPA used be known as B+K and were always known as a super accurate mic i.e. it imparts little of it's on personality on the sound.

I haven't heard Earthworks though I bought (and returned!) a pair years ago cos they were shyt and noisy as phuck.

One hopes they've improved since then.

What did you think of the sE Ribbon at The Show ? I'd fallen asleep with boredom by then ...;)

After pickling your liver with the industry reps the night before.

petermaher

Seziertisch wrote: »

Ribbon mic? I thought the SE ribbon stood head and shoulders above the condensers on the day in your studio. I am demoing an AEA R84 at the moment and it is one of the best sounding and versatile mics I have come across. Rupert Cobb talked about how he always still tracked acoustic guitars to tape for the effect that tape compression had on transients. I think a lot of condensers can bring stuff out on acoustic instruments that might not be necessarily 100% desirable whereas a good ribbon softens the edge off things quite nicely. AFAIK the AEA R84 is presently Pete Townshend's acoustic guitar mic of choice.

Good stuff, ya I'll do a bit of research on those. Cheers:)

Ya the se ribbon, I also thought it sounded good on the day. I had it a few weeks before for a while and thought it was complete rubbish, was going to use it as a door stop but then it really surprised me at the show. Dunno why I changed my mind on that one. I don't have any ribbons as it is so i think if I was getting some it'd be a stereo pair I could use for overheads aswell, coles or royers. Probably royers as joe has a pair of coles. However in this instance i'm just thinking of something that's out and out super posh dedicated acoustic guitar mic.

PaulBrewer

petermaher wrote: »

For that dan tyminski(alison krauss) buzz.;)

I'll tell you what though - yesterday's AIR visit reinforced the importance of musicians and instruments.

The quartet yesterday played the same songs from the same score through the same mics / pres etc etc as were done before a few weeks ago in Studio 1.

The difference was chalk and cheese.

Don't underestimate Dan and his D28 (I think?) in the whole equation !

PaulBrewer

Pair of VMAs , Head .... what else is there ?

PaulBrewer

Have you tried the GML on what you already have ?

You more or less have all the staples ....

petermaher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

What did you think of the sE Ribbon at The Show ? I'd fallen asleep with boredom by then ...;)

It surprised me cause as I say a few weeks earlier both joe and myself and you I think thought it was shyte. Me and joe tried it on acoustic guitar and thought someone was codding us it was so unusable. Grand, at the top end it sounded like a ribbon but there was a massive hump in the lo mid that made no sense. Maybe it was my room;)Then stuck up joes coles and it did the job perfectly. But seriously thought it was good at the show. Incidentally I too was pretty sleepy by then. Most interesting mic at the show i thought was on the bose headset in the heli which is why I phucked off in it on day two. Guitar cable shootouts?? zzzzzzz zzzzzzz zzzzzzz

PaulBrewer

petermaher wrote: »

Guitar cable shootouts?? zzzzzzz zzzzzzz zzzzzzz

There was only one shot ...

Seziertisch

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I'll tell you what though - yesterday's AIR visit reinforced the importance of musicians and instruments.

The quartet yesterday played the same songs from the same score through the same mics / pres etc etc as were done before a few weeks ago in Studio 1.

The difference was chalk and cheese.

Don't underestimate Dan and his D28 (I think?) in the whole equation !

+1 and the right instrument can coax a performance out of a player that they might not have even known they were capable of themselves.

Also, Peter, ribbons really come into their own a bit further back from the source. This fact usually means you end up picking up a bit more of the room than some other mics. If you had crappy sounding rooms I would be inclined to recommend something else but seeing as don't I think you should definitely be checking out a few more of them.

Also remember they are made to be eq'd, particularly in the top end. Another mic might sound better straight off due to its natural eq characteristics or the fact that it can/has to be placed closer to the source. In comparison the ribbon might be too bass heavy closer to the source, and when you bring it back a bit to get an acceptable level of bass content you lose the top end you are after. The chances are though, that it will take eq far better than the other mic owing to the absence of unnatuaral peaks or notches in its character, as well as capturing more of the sound of the instrument in the room.

petermaher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Have you tried the GML on what you already have ?

You more or less have all the staples ....

The GML that you have belonged to me is it? No, unless you can get me two 100 mile long vovox cables?

Yes Dan is the man, one of them at least. He's proper in tune, in time, super turbo good and he can chant a song r two!! So no I aint forgetting about talent r instruments.

And I'd only need to use 2 VMA's if I was doing an album featuring an acoustic backed by motorhead!! Not even lemmy's gettin passed them VMA's. The ace of........what's that lemmy, I can't hear you over me acoustic, the ace of wha??;)

petermaher

Seziertisch wrote: »

+1 and the right instrument can coax a performance out of a player that they might not have even known they were capable of themselves.

Also, Peter, ribbons really come into their own a bit further back from the source. This fact usually means you end up picking up a bit more of the room than some other mics. If you had crappy sounding rooms I would be inclined to recommend something else but seeing as don't I think you should definitely be checking out a few more of them.

Also remember they are made to be eq'd, particularly in the top end. Another mic might sound better straight off due to its natural eq characteristics or the fact that it can/has to be placed closer to the source. In comparison the ribbon might be too bass heavy closer to the source, and when you bring it back a bit to get an acceptable level of bass content you lose the top end you are after. The chances are though, that it will take eq far better than the other mic owing to the absence of unnatuaral peaks or notches in its character, as well as capturing more of the sound of the instrument in the room.

Ya I smell what you're steppin in, I suppose with all these things more time needs to be spent tryin different approaches. What you're saying makes total sense but when it didn't work in the style I was accustomed to it was easy to knock it. It was a paying session on the day too so we didn't want to waste too much time indulging ourselves. But based on what you're saying it definitely deserves another run.:)

studiorat

I like dpa 4006's on acoustic, spend a bit of time placing it. Others would be a U-47 for something like an arch-top, and the C-12 or 414 always works well too. There was a time where I'd go for U-87's but these days the 4006 would be my first call for acoustic. Oh and an SM-57 for that Neil Young strummy thing.

More than one microphone on acoustic utterly pointless IMO. Never made any difference except to confuse things. I tried it loads of times, always been completely underwhelmed by it.

Aridstarling

More than one works sometimes, depends on what you want from the track. When you're looking for that Bon Iver style layering effect for instance. I wouldn't always do it but sometimes its perfect.

Seziertisch

studiorat wrote: »

I like dpa 4006's on acoustic, spend a bit of time placing it. Others would be a U-47 for something like an arch-top, and the C-12 or 414 always works well too. There was a time where I'd go for U-87's but these days the 4006 would be my first call for acoustic. Oh and an SM-57 for that Neil Young strummy thing.

More than one microphone on acoustic utterly pointless IMO. Never made any difference except to confuse things. I tried it loads of times, always been completely underwhelmed by it.

Dave, are you generally a fan of a "the fewer mics the better" approach in your recordings?

Frootboy

If you can't get a sound on an acoustic guitar with your 414 or a KM184 then you should really be using microphones like this little beauty

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5240339/Trail/searchtext%3EMICROPHONE.htm

PaulBrewer

Frootboy wrote: »

If you can't get a sound on an acoustic guitar with your 414 or a KM184 then you should really be using microphones like this little beauty

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5240339/Trail/searchtext%3EMICROPHONE.htm

He's already got a pair of them too ......:rolleyes:

petermaher

Frootboy wrote: »

If you can't get a sound on an acoustic guitar with your 414 or a KM184 then you should really be using microphones like this little beauty

I can get a sound, just not the one I'm looking for;)

I'm talkin' here about folk/country/alison krauss type tracks. In particular the ones she did in emerald in nashville with yer man Gary Paczosa. Incidentally he did some stuff here with altan.

Been using a pair of c12's (XY)for some acoustic tracks lately and they are great but not the sound I'm looking for.

Seziertisch

Considering that, Peter, you should really be looking at ribbon mics, particularly considering you aren't going to tape. Like I said, that day down at your place I would have taken the SE Ribbon over the U87 on acoustic guitar without thinking twice, and possible even on the vocals as well depending on what I was after. A bit of eq and we would have been suckin' diesel (and I'm not talking Vin either, but green agri-diesel straight from a Ford 5000)

Also, a lot of your mic pres are more on the clean and clear side of things. You should look at getting some mojo tube units. V72s are really awesome, but if you don't want to go the secondhand route there are some manufacturers making new versions of them that are supposedly on a par.

ogy

can i just say, great thread! loads of info, really interesting, fair play to yis, wish there was more of this stuff on the board, and wish I had some of your mic lockers:)

studiorat

petermaher wrote: »

I'm talkin' here about folk/country/alison krauss type tracks. In particular the ones she did in emerald in nashville with yer man Gary Paczosa. Incidentally he did some stuff here with altan.
.

The stuff with Altan was only mixed by him. It was a lesson in compression though. I spotted him in the video for "Are you alright?" by Lucinda Williams recently along with Hal Wilner, sitting at the back of the room as usual. Two absolute gentlemen.

I'll nearly always use as few mic's and as short a signal path as possible. I feel particularly with something as small as an acoustic guitar, why the hell would you want it in stereo? Personally I always found one mic used the space better than 2 which I never really thought had a place in the mix. There never seems to be an actual spot where the sound is coming from with stereo on an acoustic.

One I have found is really important for acoustic is a good limiter like an La2a or a TLA100, I'd also spend as much time getting the right pick and strings on an acoustic as I would consideriing what mic to use. The actual guitar and the player is of course very important. So many folk here think Martin's are the be all and end all of acoustics, personally I prefer something like a great big Guild or a Gibson.

petermaher

studiorat wrote: »

I'll nearly always use as few mic's and as short a signal path as possible. I feel particularly with something as small as an acoustic guitar, why the hell would you want it in stereo? Personally I always found one mic used the space better than 2 which I never really thought had a place in the mix. There never seems to be an actual spot where the sound is coming from with stereo on an acoustic.

In this instance I'm particularly talking about tracks with just an acoustic and vocal as the main picture as in Alison's track 'jacobs dream' on 100 miles or more.

Obviously a track where the acoustics are just part of the mix you don't want them taking up that kinda space. In that case 414's, 451, 184's and the like are all suitable.

madtheory

Great thread! Nothing like a good mic debate Mmm, Coles 4038....

Here's my suggestions, from both ends of the spectrum:

1. Beyerdynamic MCE530 (seriously! It does magic on acoustic guitar)
2. KM84 (the original like. Quite different to the 184. Better maybe)