Pacing

ultraman1

should someone who wants to go 345 a marathon start off wit the 330s and slow down or start wit the 4hrs and quicken up?

Krusty_Clown

Why not start and finish at 3:45 pace? Nobody really needs a pacer, they're just there to help. The 15 minute gap is just too great to try and make-up, or drop down (around 36 seconds a mile). If that person has done all of their pmp runs at a specific pace, they shouls probably just stick to it, if there's no 3:45 pacer.

Kissy Lips

your pace is around 8.35, for the first 3 miles I would go closer to 9 and then bring the pace down to 8.35 after. You will thank yourself for the slow, gentle start and you can make that 1 - 1.5 minutes up over the rest of the 23.2 miles.

village runner

ultraman1 wrote: »

should someone who wants to go 345 a marathon start off wit the 330s and slow down or start wit the 4hrs and quicken up?

any race results in the last 2 months ?
I def wouldnt lose 90 seconds in first 3 miles anyway.

Hard Worker

Kissy Lips wrote: »

your pace is around 8.35, for the first 3 miles I would go closer to 9 and then bring the pace down to 8.35 after. You will thank yourself for the slow, gentle start and you can make that 1 - 1.5 minutes up over the rest of the 23.2 miles.

I agree with that.

average_runner

If i am running half marathons in around1:43 and my LSR are from 8.50-9.00, what time frame should i be aiming for.

Was thinking betweeen 3.40-3.50 or is this too optmistic?

Sosa

average_runner wrote: »

If i am running half marathons in around1:43 and my LSR are from 8.50-9.00, what time frame should i be aiming for.

Was thinking betweeen 3.40-3.50 or is this too optmistic?

A general rule of thumb i have heard of is :
Multiply your HM time x 2 and add 10 minutes.

So yours is - 3:36 for your marathon which is 8:14 Pace

average_runner

Is this rule of thumb a real good indicator?


Jsut dont want to mess it all up after this much training. Suppose thats everyones big fear!

TFBubendorfer

average_runner wrote: »

Is this rule of thumb a real good indicator?
Jsut dont want to mess it all up after this much training. Suppose thats everyones big fear!

It depends.
HM time x 2 + 10 minutes works for some people.
Personally I have to add 15 minutes. :mad:

Krusty_Clown

average_runner wrote: »

Is this rule of thumb a real good indicator?


Jsut dont want to mess it all up after this much training. Suppose thats everyones big fear!

Have you been doing any marathon pace runs? What pace did you do these at, and did you feel comfortable?
I guess it's only useful if you've done a relevant half marathon (i.e. recent, and at HM race pace).

average_runner

I've done two half marathon races at 7:51pace and 7:56 pace.
7:51 pace was Dublin.

My midweek runs are usually 7.5 miles and a 10 miler and nearly always below 8 min miles. then speed work with coub on a tuesday. Slow one on a Sunday.

Krusty_Clown

McMillan says 3:37, for your recent HM time, at a pace of 8:18. So why not aim for sub 3:40, and if you still have it in the legs, push on for the last 3 miles?

average_runner

Thats what i have been thinking, just worried it will all go pear shape!

Krusty_Clown

That's kind of how I felt at the start of my last marathon. I was actually heading out at a pace faster than I trained at. But mile by mile, I didn't collapse or hit the wall. At mile 26, despite being quite non religious, I did thank every deity ever conceived of, for getting me this far without collapsing.

That's the good/bad thing about a marathon. you can't really practise the distance. you can only practise a sub-set of it and there's a certain amount of healthy fear before you pit yourself against any marathon at a PB pace. Why not try some medium-long runs, between now and the race (e.g. 13 miles) at 8:18 pace, and see if it feels comfortable and sustainable. Wear a HRM if you have one, and see if your HR is comfortable enough at that pace, and doesn't drift upwards too badly towards the end of the run.

misty floyd

The 2 x HM time + 10 minutes rule and McMillan calculators, Do they assume people are running high mileage every week (60+?)?. Hal Higdon plans don't seem to get near 60+ so its getting me worried.

I'd have a lot more confidence in the Mcmillan time if I was hammering 60+ miles a week. My HM time of 1'29 x 2 + 10 mins is a 3'08 marathon. I'm going for 3'15 (7'25min/mile pace) and would be delighted with that.

average_runner

Yeah going to to do 13 at 8:18 pace,i should find that comfty considering i did the half at 7:51 pace.

I have the 405 garmin with the heart monitor. But how do i know what high and low rate is?


Havent used it yet but planning on using the heart rate for a new speed session plan in November

Krusty_Clown

Do you have any idea what your max HR is? (i.e. your max heart rate during a race where you gave it all, or where you did a hill repeats session, rather than clinical determination). If you look at your average heart rate during a pmp run, and compare it to your max (in terms of a percentage), you'll get an idea of how much the run is taking out of you. For example a typical easy run for me would be 135-145 bpm.

For the first half of my last marathon, at pmp, my HR was somewhere around 145-159. For the second half, the heat, tiredness and dehydration started to take its toll, and for a consistent pace, my heart rate drifted upwards (to a max of 180, which still woulfn't be my HR max). See attached.