Lisbon vote kick starts real debate on future of EU

free to prosper

Lisbon has been passed in Ireland.
It looks likely though not certain to go through.

I think the pretense of calling for Reform of an undemocratic EU is now over.

As Nigel Farage in EU parl vid below shows the Lisbon vote is the start of the real debate.

Those who esteem national democracy - should we seek a new relationship with the EU? Should we go into EFTA for Free Trade? What other type of relationship should there be?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtKcEszcy0

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turgon

And pay a billion euro a year in fees? And have EU laws shoved upon us without us having any say whatsoever?

Rb

I don't care for anything Nigel Farage has to say.

If an EU Federal State is inevitable, I'd rather we were a part of it than be left out on the sidelines. As much as I love this country, I wouldn't have us drifting around by ourselves or only tied to Britain again.

Scofflaw

"Real debate"...started by Nigel Farage...about national sovereignty...

I think I'll go and lie down. It's beyond irony at this stage.

overcome,
Scofflaw

View

Scofflaw wrote: »

"Real debate"...started by Nigel Farage...about national sovereignty...

I think I'll go and lie down. It's beyond irony at this stage.

overcome,
Scofflaw

Last I heard, he was claiming that 97% of the UK's laws come from Brussels. It is only a matter of time before the Eurosceptics breach the "100% of laws come from Brussels" barrier in one of their speeches.

View

free to prosper wrote: »

Those who esteem national democracy - should we seek a new relationship with the EU?

This would be "esteem national democracy" in the sense of "We lost the referendum, so we now want to leave the EU" sense.

Sam Vimes

free to prosper wrote: »

As Nigel Farage

Stopped reading here

Daftendirekt

Anyone want to give a quick summary of the vid? I physically can't listen to Farage for longer than ten seconds at a time. The man is probably more annoying than Ganley.

Iwasfrozen

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Anyone want to give a quick summary of the vid? I physically can't listen to Farage for longer than ten seconds at a time. The man is probably more annoying than Ganley.

Let's not get crazy here.

Daftendirekt

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Let's not get crazy here.

OK, almost as annoying.

marco_polo

free to prosper wrote: »

Lisbon has been passed in Ireland.
It looks likely though not certain to go through.

I think the pretense of calling for Reform of an undemocratic EU is now over.

As Nigel Farage in EU parl vid below shows the Lisbon vote is the start of the real debate.

Those who esteem national democracy - should we seek a new relationship with the EU? Should we go into EFTA for Free Trade? What other type of relationship should there be?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtKcEszcy0

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No, but luckily for you Lisbon makes it much easier to negotiate such a relationship should it ever come to pass.

roosh

Just a quick question with regard to EU policies. Is there anywhere in EU policy or legislation that mentions improving the quality of life of its citzens?

This is an honest question, as I haven't heard it mentioned.

Euro_Kraut

free to prosper wrote: »

As Nigel Farage ......Those who esteem national democracy ........

The guy walked into Dublin Castle last Saturday and said the vote in another country was corrupt and comparable to Zimbabwe and Afghanistan.

He has a very odd method of holding national democracy in esteem.

Furious-Dave

Doesn't he want to have the people of Ireland sign an oath of allegiance to a monarch? Perhaps it's NI, but oh, how democratic :rolleyes:

prinz

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Stopped reading here

You got that far? :eek: I stopped at "undemocratic EU"....

roosh

prinz wrote: »

You got that far? :eek: I stopped at "undemocratic EU"....

I know, clearly it should have been anti-democratic

dresden8

Jésus Al fnckin Christos,

As a no voter, please leave Coir, Declan fnckin Ganley and Nigel Cntn Farage out of it.

Those fnckers were worth at least 15% to the yes side.

They are not us. We are not them.

Cut that sh1t out.

You make us all sound mad.

Scofflaw

Possibly Mr Farage is not kick-starting a real debate on the future of the EU. Or perhaps, you know, the fact that he's English means that he has no relevance to the debate on the future of Ireland and the EU?

cordially,
Scofflaw

P. Breathnach

prinz wrote: »

You got that far? :eek: I stopped at "undemocratic EU"....

I win: I didn't even start.

MarkK

Does Ireland or the EU need a lesson in Democracy from a country which ends up with huge one party majorities on 37% of the vote?

Last UK Election 2005:

Votes  Seats
Labour   37%   55%
Cons     34%   30.5%
Lib Deb  23%    9.5%

roosh

Scofflaw wrote: »

Possibly Mr Farage is not kick-starting a real debate on the future of the EU. Or perhaps, you know, the fact that he's English means that he has no relevance to the debate on the future of Ireland and the EU?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Surely his position as an MEP, would mean he has a very real relevance to the debate on the future of Ireland and the EU

roosh

MarkK wrote: »

Does Ireland or the EU need a lesson in Democracy from a country which ends up with huge one party majorities on 37% of the vote?

Last UK Election 2005:

Votes  Seats
Labour   37%   55%
Cons     34%   30.5%
Lib Deb  23%    9.5%

There isn't a country trying to give us a lesson.

marco_polo

MarkK wrote: »

Does Ireland or the EU need a lesson in Democracy from a country which ends up with huge one party majorities on 37% of the vote?

Last UK Election 2005:

Votes  Seats
Labour   37%   55%
Cons     34%   30.5%
Lib Deb  23%    9.5%

I am not a huge fan of PR, but first past the post is much much worse. I can almost here Kang and Kodos from the Simpsons saying, "Liberal Democrates? Go ahead throw your vote away".

Didn't we have a failed referendum or two, called by De Valera, to introduce in a similar system that system long long ago?

marco_polo

mangaroosh wrote: »

Surely his position as an MEP, would mean he has a very real relevance to the debate on the future of Ireland and the EU

Only up to the point in his dreams where Britain leaves the EU, after that I don't think he would have much of a opinion on the matter.

Scofflaw

mangaroosh wrote: »

Surely his position as an MEP, would mean he has a very real relevance to the debate on the future of Ireland and the EU

Not really - his interest is in the UK, which is right and proper for a UK politician, but not of very much use to anyone else.

cordially,
Scofflaw

roosh

Scofflaw wrote: »

Not really - his interest is in the UK, which is right and proper for a UK politician, but not of very much use to anyone else.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well, when he will be voting on issues that affect everyone, I would suggest that it will be of use to other people.

Or are you trying to insinuate something about the positions of MEPs?

roosh

dresden8 wrote: »

Jésus Al fnckin Christos,

As a no voter, please leave Coir, Declan fnckin Ganley and Nigel Cntn Farage out of it.

Those fnckers were worth at least 15% to the yes side.

They are not us. We are not them.

Cut that sh1t out.

You make us all sound mad.

Unforunately cognitive dissonance will have well and truly set in at this stage, and the fallacious argumentum ad hominem (or whatever the plural is) is one of the few things that people can use to justify their decision, so I wouldn't expect it to stop anytime soon.

Scofflaw

mangaroosh wrote: »

Well, when he will be voting on issues that affect everyone, I would suggest that it will be of use to other people.

Or are you trying to insinuate something about the positions of MEPs?

Well, "state", really, in the case of UKIP, rather than "insinuate". UKIP's role at the European Parliament is not one of voting on European issues with the best interests of Europe in mind - or at least, if that's what they do, then they're letting their voters down badly.

cordially,
Scofflaw

nesf

marco_polo wrote: »

Didn't we have a failed referendum or two, called by De Valera, to introduce in a similar system that system long long ago?

Yup, plans were scrapped when it was shown that a FPP system would have been returning FF with enormous majorities based on results that in the PR system gave them only a small majority. FPP is good in that it ensures one party Government, or close to ensuring it, which is preferable to the kind of coalition monstrosities seen in Italy and similar. We're not too bad with our 2+1 major party system.

sensibleken

also, E numbers give you cancer!!! its all part of the EU neo-plantagenate agenda.

seriously. can boards just start a tinfoil hat forum and post this stuff here

ghost_ie

turgon wrote: »

And pay a billion euro a year in fees? And have EU laws shoved upon us without us having any say whatsoever?

EU laws are shoved on us already without our having any say in the matter

meglome

ghost_ie wrote: »

EU laws are shoved on us already without our having any say in the matter

Which ones were those?