for fe*k sake

gaffo7

Usual story, training going grand for DCM up till longest run, ran 22 miles 2 weeks ago and now my ITB sore even to walk. With just over 2 weeks left to first marathon I cant see myself risking much (if any) running between now and then. Assuming I had done most of the work up to 2 weeks ago would not running for 3-4 weeks before a marathon mean my fitness level would drop to a point where I would suffer in Marathon, or if I walk/swim till then should I be ok???
going to physio today btw.

TFBubendorfer

As long as you have done all the work, your endurance base will still be there after 3-4 weeks.

Just call it a radical taper ...

gaffo7

thanks TFB really hope that will be the case.

Hard Worker

gaffo7 wrote: »

Usual story, training going grand for DCM up till longest run, ran 22 miles 2 weeks ago and now my ITB sore even to walk. With just over 2 weeks left to first marathon I cant see myself risking much (if any) running between now and then. Assuming I had done most of the work up to 2 weeks ago would not running for 3-4 weeks before a marathon mean my fitness level would drop to a point where I would suffer in Marathon, or if I walk/swim till then should I be ok???
going to physio today btw.

A decent physio or sports massage therapist should sort out your ITB quickly. Sometimes one session will even do the job.
It amazes me to hear of so many people suffering with ITB and knee pain for long periods when it can be sorted quickly.

tunney

I would recommend that you establish the cause of your ITB issue and address it or there is the very real chance that it will act up again on the day.

gmurran

Get hold off a foam roller and spend the time you would be training on the roller. 1 hour a day 3-4 times a week will solve most ITB issues. That's my experience anyway but as stated if it's particularly bad see the physio.

groovyg

You should definitely go see a Physio and maybe get a massage from a physical therapist. This happened to me a few years ago when I was training for DCM, I think I may have increased the mileage too quickly. But I had entered the marathon so tried running on the day and pulled out at mile 5. I hadn't gone to PT or done physio before hand just did lots of swimming and rested up quiet a bit but it didn't solve the problem.
I went to the physio and a PT after the marathon, the physio said my glutes were really weak so got me doing loads of squats, one legged squats, lunges and other excerisces to strenghten my glutes. So ever since then I've been making sure do lots of strenghtening exercises and get a massage from the PT every once in a while. haven't had any trouble with it since.
It happpened to a friend of mine as well who was training for DCM and he couldn't be arsed doing any of the exercises or going to a physio so he just quit running.

tunney

groovyg wrote: »

You should definitely go see a Physio and maybe get a massage from a physical therapist. This happened to me a few years ago when I was training for DCM, I think I may have increased the mileage too quickly. But I had entered the marathon so tried running on the day and pulled out at mile 5. I hadn't gone to PT or done physio before hand just did lots of swimming and rested up quiet a bit but it didn't solve the problem.
I went to the physio and a PT after the marathon, the physio said my glutes were really weak so got me doing loads of squats, one legged squats, lunges and other excerisces to strenghten my glutes. So ever since then I've been making sure do lots of strenghtening exercises and get a massage from the PT every once in a while. haven't had any trouble with it since.
It happpened to a friend of mine as well who was training for DCM and he couldn't be arsed doing any of the exercises or going to a physio so he just quit running.

To be fair physos are absolutely fvking sh!te when dealing with ITB issues. You want a skilled masseur that runs. A good masseur will get you back running with one-two sessions. A physio will say "6 months and do all these exercises". (apologies to any physios, but these has been my experience with all physios that I have seen over my ITB over the years).

tunguska

gmurran wrote: »

Get hold off a foam roller and spend the time you would be training on the roller. 1 hour a day 3-4 times a week will solve most ITB issues. That's my experience anyway but as stated if it's particularly bad see the physio.

Listen to Gmurran gaffo, this is exactly what you do. Get yourself a foam roller and I guarentee your ITB trouble will be gone in no time. As hardworker said, it amazes me how much time people lose with things like ITB trouble when its so easily sorted out. Dont waste anymore time man, get a foam roller asap.

tunney

tunguska wrote: »

Listen to Gmurran gaffo, this is exactly what you do. Get yourself a foam roller and I guarentee your ITB trouble will be gone in no time. As hardworker said, it amazes me how much time people lose with things like ITB trouble when its so easily sorted out. Dont waste anymore time man, get a foam roller asap.

Its not that clear cut.

ITB flare ups come from a multiude of reasons. A foam roller will assist with some causes. It will do nothing for others (example being if your psoas is spasmed it will twist your legs and no amount of foam rolling will aid the ITB pain).

Op get to a good masseur, preferable a runner.

RacoonQueen

tunney wrote: »

To be fair physos are absolutely fvking sh!te when dealing with ITB issues. You want a skilled masseur that runs. A good masseur will get you back running with one-two sessions. A physio will say "6 months and do all these exercises". (apologies to any physios, but these has been my experience with all physios that I have seen over my ITB over the years).

Couldn't agree more. Having studied as a sports therapist and now working with physios and having been to physios over the last year or so the difference on what a sports massage professional and a physio will concentrate on is unreal. Physio's tend to just treat the area that hurts aswell whereas a sports massage therapist will treat all surrounding areas. Given a choice I'd opt for a sports massage before physio every time unless it was a really serious injury.

tunguska

tunney wrote: »

Its not that clear cut.

ITB flare ups come from a multiude of reasons. A foam roller will assist with some causes. It will do nothing for others (example being if your psoas is spasmed it will twist your legs and no amount of foam rolling will aid the ITB pain).

Op get to a good masseur, preferable a runner.

It may be not be clear cut.....but then again it may. The foam roller will eliminate a variable at the very least. Nothing to lose by trying it.

skater1

Im in a similar position, ITB causing problems recently and my knees are a bit of a mess as a result. At the risk of sounding stupid, where would I get a foam roller? I know the gym would probably have them but would rather work on it at home. I did consider investing in a rolling pin as a substitute... at least if I dont feel better in time for DCM I can bake myself a cake as consolation.

tunguska

skater1 wrote: »

Im in a similar position, ITB causing problems recently and my knees are a bit of a mess as a result. At the risk of sounding stupid, where would I get a foam roller? I know the gym would probably have them but would rather work on it at home. I did consider investing in a rolling pin as a substitute... at least if I dont feel better in time for DCM I can bake myself a cake as consolation.

You'll pick one up here:

http://www.physioneeds.ie/

skater1

Brilliant, thanks tunguska

Kissy Lips

tunguska wrote: »

You'll pick one up here:

http://www.physioneeds.ie/

I just bought a foam roller from that link. It hasn't arrived yet, will it include instuctions on how to use it for the basic stretches like ITB, calf, hammer etc? If not, do you have link to that?

Actually, i just remembered it is in this months irish runner mag but if you have any links send them on & thanks for the physioneeds link.

gaffo7

Thanks to all for good advice. Went to physio yest and she said to X train for 10 days and do some gentle running week of marathon. Have been foam rolling for while so advice is to keep this up also.
I agree with some of your comments regarding physio's who are not runners. I attended a physio for 8 weeks with shin splints with little improvement, found a physio who is a marathon runner herself and within 2 sessions my shins were much improved, she had a completly different approach to treatment.
Same problem as you groovyg, glutes are to blame Im told, so gonna get squattin.
so hangin up runners for 10 days or so and going to hit gym and get foam roallin. thanks again.

tunney

gaffo7 wrote: »

Thanks to all for good advice. Went to physio yest and she said to X train for 10 days and do some gentle running week of marathon. Have been foam rolling for while so advice is to keep this up also.
I agree with some of your comments regarding physio's who are not runners. I attended a physio for 8 weeks with shin splints with little improvement, found a physio who is a marathon runner herself and within 2 sessions my shins were much improved, she had a completly different approach to treatment.
Same problem as you groovyg, glutes are to blame Im told, so gonna get squattin.
so hangin up runners for 10 days or so and going to hit gym and get foam roallin. thanks again.

Did she tell you the cause?

gaffo7

yep, weak glutes plus very tight back muscles from car crash last year.

colblimp

I swear by Physical Therapists. I'm seeing one at the moment and she does Ultrasound and massage. It works a treat, except I'm too impatient, start running too soon and am therefore constantly injured! :rolleyes:

gaffo7

dito colblimp, what do you think has me in this situation now!!

tunney

gaffo7 wrote: »

yep, weak glutes plus very tight back muscles from car crash last year.

These are your weaknesses, not necessarily the cause of this specific flare up.

Now it could just be overuse, proably is given its DCM time, however for me 9/10 times its a specific muscle group that has spasmed and changed my gait. No amount of rest will resolve it for me, only release of the muscle.

pgibbo

Kissy Lips wrote: »

I just bought a foam roller from that link. It hasn't arrived yet, will it include instuctions on how to use it for the basic stretches like ITB, calf, hammer etc? If not, do you have link to that?

Actually, i just remembered it is in this months irish runner mag but if you have any links send them on & thanks for the physioneeds link.

Here's one that someone provided on here in the past

osnola ibax

Hard Worker wrote: »

A decent physio or sports massage therapist should sort out your ITB quickly. Sometimes one session will even do the job.
It amazes me to hear of so many people suffering with ITB and knee pain for long periods when it can be sorted quickly.

It can't be this easy, can it?

There are pages and pages and forums upon forum dedicated to itb online.

People have tried everything including rest, pt, sports massage, anti inflammatories, glucosamine, fishoils, orthotics, changing their running style, foam rolling, accupuncture, leg strengthening, pat straps, stretching, icing, ultra sound, dry needling and still can't solve the issue. If it were just the case of seeing a proper sports massage dude, wouldn't everybody be doing it, and those who have done it would no longer be complaining.

happy_73

colblimp wrote: »

I swear by Physical Therapists. I'm seeing one at the moment and she does Ultrasound and massage. It works a treat, except I'm too impatient, start running too soon and am therefore constantly injured! :rolleyes:

Might be worth going to Freda Davoren in Bishopstown (very very accomplished runner - just google her!), couldn't recommend her enough.

S

tunney

osnola ivax wrote: »

It can't be this easy, can it?

There are pages and pages and forums upon forum dedicated to itb online.

People have tried everything including rest, pt, sports massage, anti inflammatories, glucosamine, fishoils, orthotics, changing their running style, foam rolling, accupuncture, leg strengthening, pat straps, stretching, icing, ultra sound, dry needling and still can't solve the issue. If it were just the case of seeing a proper sports massage dude, wouldn't everybody be doing it, and those who have done it would no longer be complaining.

It is that easy.

The difference between a top notch PT and a standard physio is worlds apart.

shels4ever

I'd say Ciaran Fitzpatrick would be a good guy see also, I found him great.

tunney

To clarify ITBS, IMHO, broadly falls into two categories.

1) ITB pain
2) ITB pain with associated inflamation of the bursa

If you let 1) turn into 2) then you are sidelined for a long time. If you act on 1) as soon as it happens then it never becomes 2) and one session with a good PT and its gone.

osnola ibax

tunney wrote: »

To clarify ITBS, IMHO, broadly falls into two categories.

1) ITB pain
2) ITB pain with associated inflamation of the bursa

If you let 1) turn into 2) then you are sidelined for a long time. If you act on 1) as soon as it happens then it never becomes 2) and one session with a good PT and its gone.

I have had sessions with two different pt's, neither of the claimed that they could cure it, only to manage it, and they were fairly intensive sessions. I spoke to two other pts on the phone and Constant stretching and icing was advised / prescribed until I got a chance to rest it. I've never heard of anyone stating that they were free of problems after one session with a pt, only relieved of it. ALL advice on the net is that the only way to clear it up is to rest, for up to 6 weeks. Am I at the no. 2 stage?

I find it very hard to believe that there is a pt that can rid you of itb after one session.

tunguska

Kissy Lips wrote: »

I just bought a foam roller from that link. It hasn't arrived yet, will it include instuctions on how to use it for the basic stretches like ITB, calf, hammer etc? If not, do you have link to that?

Actually, i just remembered it is in this months irish runner mag but if you have any links send them on & thanks for the physioneeds link.

No problem, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK7upcy9tPs

Theres lots of clips for different body parts at the above location aswell.

tunney

osnola ivax wrote: »

I have had sessions with two different pt's, neither of the claimed that they could cure it, only to manage it, and they were fairly intensive sessions. I spoke to two other pts on the phone and Constant stretching and icing was advised / prescribed until I got a chance to rest it. I've never heard of anyone stating that they were free of problems after one session with a pt, only relieved of it. ALL advice on the net is that the only way to clear it up is to rest, for up to 6 weeks. Am I at the no. 2 stage?

I find it very hard to believe that there is a pt that can rid you of itb after one session.

Borderline medical advice, I'm dropping out.
Do what you will.

osnola ibax

tunney wrote: »

Borderline medical advice, I'm dropping out.
Do what you will.

That could be said about any of the posts here, I'm not advising anyone to do anything.

Racing Flat

Evolution of a concept...


Your ITB hurts - give it a rub

Your ITB hurts because it is tight - give it a rub and stretch it

Your ITB hurts because it is tight because your glutes are weak - give the ITB a rub and a stretch, strengthen your glutes with isolated glut exercises

Your ITB hurts because it is tight because your glutes are weak - give the ITB a rub and a stretch, strengthen your glutes with functional glut exercises like squatting and dead-lifts


This is where the world seems to be at. It needs to get to here:

Your ITB hurts because it (or TFL muscle that controls it) is overactive and your glutes and/or psoas are underactive. The brain sends messages to these muscles to control their activity levels - in your case, the brain is not sending the right messages. You need to reprogramme the pattern for running in your brain so that the correct messages are sent. Do this by incorporating the principles of skill aquisition and motor learning to your glut and/or psoas exercises, gradually progressing these until they are incorporated into the aggravating activity - i.e. running. The pattern needs to become automatic, second nature. Do this and you will end up with correct activity of glutes/psoas/TFL/ITB when running and so it won't go tight or get painful. This is difficult (from a technique rather than a strength point of view), like perfecting a golf swing but not impossible. Just takes a long time. Most people don't do the correct exercises, or don't progress them to the very end-stage rehabilitation stage (the actual aggravating activity), or get fed up before it becomes automatic and so have frequent recurrences of the injury. By all means have massage, ice, codliver oil, St. John's wort in the meantime to help with symptomatic relief - but until you correct the underlying cause it may not heal fully. This is not a strength or flexibility issue. it is a motor control issue. I bet you want to go back to 'it's tight give it a rub' now. Don't you? Bane of my life .