Anyone Relying On The Digital Tests as Their Sole/Main Source of Terrestrial TV?

Mark#1

Hi,

Are the digital tests reliable/consistent enough to be regarded as a viable source of Irish terrestrial TV, or are they so inconsistent/sporadic as not to be considered viable?

My analog Irish terestrial is good, but I'd like to have some sort of PVR functionality (just like I have with my Humax Foxsat HDR for satellite) it.

I'd also like to have the audio for Irish terrestrial going through my AV amp (again just like my Foxsat HDR).

My analog terrestrial is currently coming direct from aerial to TV, via a booster in the living room, so the audio comes through the TV.

With DTT now looking at a late 2010 launch, I'm wondering if a PS3/PlayTV set-up would be viable as a reliable source of terrestrial TV at this time, even though it's all still tests?

Also, I contacted Panasonic Shop in Limerick, asking if there is/will be a HDD DVD recorder suitable for Irish DTT. This is the reply:

"There is not currently a DVD recorder with an Mpeg4 tuner in it on the market, but it would seem likely that the next model would have it as the current range of TV's all have it. We have no news as of yet as to when such a model may come to market."

So is it the case that either PS3/PlayTV or an MPEG4 HDD DVD recorder (or even an MPEG4 DTT PVR) will work for now if the DTT tests are reliable, and after launch if the system/technology used at launch are the same as used for the tests?

Is this latter point a concern?

Does any of the PS/PlayTV's or a pending MPEG4 HDD DVD recorder's aparrent suitability for Irish DTT matter? If they work now (even if the reception of the tests are sporadic), will they be guaranteed to continue to work after DTT launch?

Note: I won't be getting Sky or NTL, which are currently the only terrestrial PVRs, AFAIK - my ultimate aim (like many on boards, and in the real world) is to have my Freesat HD PVR and a free DTT PVR. I know combo boxes will possibly come out with one EPG for both sat & DTT, but with my universal remote, separate units for sat & DTT will work just fine for me.


Thanks for any replies,

Mark

craoltoir

I only use DTT signal as the analogue signal is terrible. Using indoor aerial only. DTT signal is perfect and has been pretty much consistent since last March. Signal from 3Rock.

kuro_man

+1
Very poor analogue from Kippure (small hill in the way) but can get decent DTT most of the time, maybe from reflections

Tommy_Vercetti

Im using it for about six weeks and its been brilliant from Mullaghanish! Our analogue was terrible due all the dishes pointing at various satelites around our house(what we were told by TV guy) and Id missed out on all the sport on RTE! TV3 was down lately but if you have free-to-air satelite you'll see the majoity of the stuff on ITV anyway, I know its hard to live without VIP though!

BigMoose

I use it as my only source of Irish TV in a HTPC with the FTA UK channels from Sat. Works brilliantly although you can never be 100% sure that the DTT will be working at any given time. There's little on Irish TV that I'd be upset to miss, so was only mildly annoyed to find the test card instead of The Apprentice the other day. Can be annoying when it seems to go dead before a football game I fancy watching, but they've been OK recently. This is from Kippure (or possibly 3 Rock).

snaps

Yes i only watch RTE etc via digital tests. I havent ever watched Irish tv properly before this due to bad Analouge quality.

radiospan

The DTT broadcasts from Spur Hill are my only source of TV. I don't have cable or satellite, so internet and the 4 basics are good enough for me.

I have to switch to analogue the odd time if the tests are off.

Mark#1

Thanks for the replies folks.

PS3/PlayTV might just be on my Santa list...


Mark

CrowdedHouse

I'm kind of...

My analogue is gone from excellent to only fair,a lot of this is due to the antenna being old and falling apart,it also shifts in very strong winds and as such is now pointing at no particular transmitter.

I'm holding off replacing it until the tests etc settle down or go in service as I can receive 3 transmitters here on DTT(was 4 but Mt Leinster seems to be gone for me) I want to see which will be the strongest final signal.

coylemj

craoltoir wrote: »

I only use DTT signal as the analogue signal is terrible. Using indoor aerial only. DTT signal is perfect and has been pretty much consistent since last March. Signal from 3Rock.

Could you tell us what type of aerial you're using and what channel 3rock is broadcasting the RTE MUX on please. My TV asks for the frequency so I've been entering 735.25 Mhz which is channel 54 but it can't find anything.

craoltoir

My television tunes in all available Digital channels automatically. I am using a Skytronic aerial with an amplifier. See TV aerial section at www.peats.ie. I am sure it is not the best type of aerial but it works perfectly in Glasnevin.

While frequencies can change (my telly will automatically update these), currently 3Rock is transmitting channels on 56mhz(from memory, can check later unless somebody else clarifies in the meantime).

STB

coylemj wrote: »

Could you tell us what type of aerial you're using and what channel 3rock is broadcasting the RTE MUX on please. My TV asks for the frequency so I've been entering 735.25 Mhz which is channel 54 but it can't find anything.

Coylemj,

Channel 54 is 738 Megs (and not Khz either - that would be an anaorak AM frequency from the 80s! ). You are getting mixed up with PAL I. The DTT channel that carries the mux (8MHZ bandwidth) uses all of the bandwidth available simultaneously and transmits 2048 carriers. A centre frequency is used. So go to 738 MHZ and you will get Ch54.

What kind of hardware are you using ? A Digital Tuner will not allow you to enter a decimal on manual scan - it normally scans by channel anyhow.

Where are you in Dublin ? You may get away with an indoor aerial.

I use an indoor Funke DSC 210-45T (€20). Its got a 8-18db gain. DTT comes in on at Clarke Tech at 92% on Dublins northside. You could also use a philex slx1 to power a non powered indoor aerial. Or you could get a loft or outdoor aerial - on which there are plenty of threads here.

10000maniacs

Mark#1 wrote: »

With DTT now looking at a late 2010 launch, I'm wondering if a PS3/PlayTV set-up would be viable as a reliable source of terrestrial TV at this time, even though it's all still tests?

RTE's Nationwide had an item on this last week.
One of the guys said DTT will be launching sometime before the end of this year.
Currently TV3 has been down for the last two weeks. There is a test card in its place.
The other three RTE channels are still working on DTT as of this morning.

coylemj

STB wrote: »

Coylemj,

Channel 54 is 738 Megs (and not Khz either - that would be an anaorak FM frequency from the 80s! ). You are getting mixed up with PAL I. The DTT channel that carries the mux (8MHZ bandwidth) uses all of the bandwidth available simultaneously and transmits 2048 carriers. A centre frequency is used. So go to 738 MHZ and you will get Ch54.

What kind of hardware are you using ? A Digital Tuner will not allow you to enter a decimal on manual scan - it normally scans by channel anyhow.

Where are you in Dublin ? You may get away with an indoor aerial.

I use an indoor Funke DSC 210-45T (€20). Its got a 8-18db gain. DTT comes in on at Clarke Tech at 92% on Dublins northside. You could also use a philex slx1 to power a non powered indoor aerial. Or you could get a loft or outdoor aerial - on which there are plenty of threads here.

STB, thanks for the reply. I did say Mhz and not Khz as you suggested. My TV is a Philips 42PFL8404 - it's a new LCD model and is MPEG4 capable. I have an indoor UHF aerial and can receive analog from 3Rock pretty well, I live on the southside and am at a good elevation. The TV asks me for the frequency to search so I am currently entering 735.25 Mhz as that is in or about the frequency as I understand it for Channel 54 which as far as I'm aware is the allocated frequency for the public service Mux on 3Rock but the TV can't find anything.

It does however spend a few seconds searching, I put in a few random frequencies and it instantly returned to the search menu so it looks like there's something there at the 735.25 Mhz spot , maybe if I tweaked the frequency it might find it. The picture from the aerial on the analog signal is good on RTE1, medium on RTE2 and very unpredictable on TV3 while I can't pickup TG4 at all, maybe the signal isn't good enough for DTT??

I'll try 738 Mhz as you suggested and will report back, thanks.

BTW, I am an NTL customer so have cable TV, I'm just curious about DTT and would like to see it in action.

STB

The KHZ was in jest, an anorak trait (Nova broadcast on 738Khz AM back in the day).

Its 738 MHZ. I suggest you stick the aerial near the window. If it is good for analogue, the DTT should lash in.

You might need a better indoor aerial.

Interesting to know that model is mpeg4. I had come to the conclusion that only the range ending in H were MPEG4. Learn something new everyday. Wish they would stop changing the range lettering.

craoltoir

Indicator on TV shows 567/25hz (3Rock)

STB

craoltoir wrote: »

Indicator on TV shows 567/25hz (3Rock)

Craoltoir - That is an analogue frequency on UHF Band IV not DTT. Switch to your digital tuner - 738 MHZ/Ch 54 - it should have auto tuned it in if you have a suitable TV.

fat-tony

craoltoir wrote: »

Indicator on TV shows 567/25hz (3Rock)

This wouldn't be 576 / 25Hz by any chance?

576 is the number of lines on standard definition. 25Hz is the refresh frequency (frame rate).

The frequency for DTT on Three Rock is definitely 738MHz (UHF CH54)

Finne1993

coylemj wrote: »

The picture from the aerial on the analog signal is good on RTE1, medium on RTE2 and very unpredictable on TV3 while I can't pickup TG4 at all, maybe the signal isn't good enough for DTT??

Its obvious the signal is very weak for you in the higher C/D band, if you can't get TG4 at all, you have'nt a hope of picking up the DTT tests from Three Rock.

RTE1 - CH29
RTE2 - CH33
TV3 - CH35
TG4 - CH55
DTT Trial - CH54

Its probably a wiring or antenna problem that can be sorted out handy enough.

Did you try out the signal from Kippure?

RTE 1 & 2 are VHF - E & H
TV3 - UHF CH62
TG4 - UHF CH59
DTT Trial - CH61

Although it has been noted the DTT signal from Kippure is usually considerably lower than Three Rock.

coylemj

Finne1993 wrote: »

Its obvious the signal is very weak for you in the higher C/D band, if you can't get TG4 at all, you have'nt a hope of picking up the DTT tests from Three Rock.

RTE1 - CH29
RTE2 - CH33
TV3 - CH35
TG4 - CH55
DTT Trial - CH54

Its probably a wiring or antenna problem that can be sorted out handy enough.

Did you try out the signal from Kippure?

RTE 1 & 2 are VHF - E & H
TV3 - UHF CH62
TG4 - UHF CH59
DTT Trial - CH61

Although it has been noted the DTT signal from Kippure is usually considerably lower than Three Rock.

You're probably right, the signal last night on the indoor UHF aerial was only ok on RTE1, there was no skin texture visible during a close-up of a guy being interviewed, the picture quality on RTE2 and TV3 was relatively poor and the tuner didn't find TG4 at all so no surprise that when I tried to point it at 738 Mhz looking for digital that it couldn't find the 3Rock RTE Mux.

I'm on the southside of Dublin and am in the shadow of Three Rock so can't see Kippure at all.

fat-tony

coylemj wrote: »

You're probably right, the signal last night on the indoor UHF aerial was only ok on RTE1, there was no skin texture visible during a close-up of a guy being interviewed, the picture quality on RTE2 and TV3 was relatively poor and the tuner didn't find TG4 at all so no surprise that when I tried to point it at 738 Mhz looking for digital that it couldn't find the 3Rock RTE Mux.

I'm on the southside of Dublin and am in the shadow of Three Rock so can't see Kippure at all.

I read back through your posts again. You say you are on the southside of Dublin at a good elevation. The signals from Three Rock should be booming in.:) I'd suggest you try relocating your indoor UHF aerial, or checking the connections on it to see if there is a break or a short in the cable. What make is it? The fact that RTE1 analogue is coming in ok but that the picture quality gets progressively worse on RT2, TV3 and TG4 indicates an issue with your aerial. It's not a "rabbit ears" VHF aerial by any chance?

coylemj

I'm using a Maplins indoor UHF aerial, here it is. I have three other similar aerials but the Maplins is marginally the best, I have the rods horizontal and the aerial is pointing directly at the transmitter.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=33215

There are potentially two problems with my reception....

1. The direct line from me to the transmitter is through three houses on my left i.e. with an indoor aerial the signal has to pass through the end wall and two dividing solid walls.

2. I am on the wrong side of the hill for reception i.e. looking towards Three Rock I'm looking up towards the top of a hill which is blocking my view of the mountain.

From upstairs I can on a good day pick up BBC1 from Camlough but that is to the north, the hill mentioned above is to the south in the direction of Three Rock.

fat-tony

You seem to be unfortunate in your location with houses in the way and the matter of a hill blocking your view of Three Rock:(
Only suggestion I can make is to get a contract aerial and try it in the attic, or failing that, you may have to have it installed on the chimney.

coylemj

fat-tony wrote: »

You seem to be unfortunate in your location with houses in the way and the matter of a hill blocking your view of Three Rock:(
Only suggestion I can make is to get a contract aerial and try it in the attic, or failing that, you may have to have it installed on the chimney.

Thanks for the tips, this is just an experiment to pick up DTT, I have a full service from cable (NTL) so won't be going beyond messing about with indoor aerials.

craoltoir

Would the signal from Clermont Carn be any use or is it too far away?

I understand it's channel 53/730mhz

coylemj

Clermont Carn is too far away (90 kms) and anyway the DTT channel is up there along with the analog channels in the C/D band, all my indoor aerials seem to be ok at the lower end but they're very poor above channel 40 and the RTE mux on Clermont Carn is on channel 53 as you said and on Three Rock it's at 54.

I might have to move to Cork as I see Mullaganish analog and DTT are all on aerial group A!

Does anyone know of a decent wideband indoor aerial?

fat-tony

There's no magic solution if your location is not getting reasonable signal strength. I'm getting excellent reception from the Greystones low-power relay on CH52 with a simple half-wave dipole made with a bit of wire. But this only works consistently when it's outside the house. I've tried more elaborate commercial set-top antennas, but they are all iffy indoors. You can't get around the basic laws of physics:( The Maplins one you are using is supposed to be one of the best of its type, so my advice to you is to try the aerial elsewhere in the house (but this might be awkward if you need to move a 42" LCD set around;)).

craoltoir

When the system is officially switched on then, surely there will have to be additional relay transmitters to give coverage to the areas that do not receive signal from the existing "local" transmitters.

coylemj

fat-tony wrote: »

There's no magic solution if your location is not getting reasonable signal strength. I'm getting excellent reception from the Greystones low-power relay on CH52 with a simple half-wave dipole made with a bit of wire. But this only works consistently when it's outside the house. I've tried more elaborate commercial set-top antennas, but they are all iffy indoors. You can't get around the basic laws of physics:( The Maplins one you are using is supposed to be one of the best of its type, so my advice to you is to try the aerial elsewhere in the house (but this might be awkward if you need to move a 42" LCD set around;)).

I have a 19" Philips in the bedroom, I can pickup Clermont Carn on a good day as a poor picture but in general terms the Maplins aerial appears to be no good at higher channels, for example it can't get a decent TG4 picture on channel 55 from 3rock yet the other local channels on 29/33/35 are ok. I have two other indoor UHF aerials and the results are the same so it's not the aerial and it's not the TV, the indoor aerials just seem to be no good at picking up the higher channels.

I'll have to wait for Feb 2010 to see if I can get the DTT signal from Blaenplwyf, their DTT channels will be all group A so I might have better luck.

Again let me stress that I have a full NTL service so I don't spend my evenings looking at snowstorms!