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Can the rucking laws be improved

  • 07-10-2009 9:21am
    #1
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭


    Given recent high profile incidents in Munster Leinster games it led me to think that maybe rucking laws should be improved. Are there to many players involved on the fringe that makes it hard to referees to pick up incidents and act quickly enough to stop injuries which happened to Healy and Cullen happening.

    Do the rucking laws need updating 7 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    100% 7 votes


Comments

  • #2
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    Given recent high profile incidents in Munster Leinster games it led me to think that maybe rucking laws should be improved. Are there to many players involved on the fringe that makes it hard to referees to pick up incidents and act quickly enough to stop injuries which happened to Healy and Cullen happening.
    The injury to Cian Healy occurred in a maul.
    Not a ruck.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Justind wrote: »
    The injury to Cian Healy occurred in a maul.
    Not a ruck.

    ...which was the result of foul play, not a lack of rucking/mauling rules.

    The only way to prevent future incidents is a transparent, consitent judicial process that imposes appropriate bans across the board.


  • #4
    ScrubsfanChris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,599 ✭✭✭ScrubsfanChris


    The last thing the sport needs right now is another rule change. All the rules that are in place now should stick for at least 3 years before they are looked at again.


  • #5
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    ScrubsfanChris wrote: »
    The last thing the sport needs right now is another rule change. All the rules that are in place now should stick for at least 3 years before they are looked at again.
    Seems to me a lot of incidents like these happen because of players frustrations with getting the ball released quickly.
    I think the Rugby League example would be a good one to follow.


  • #6
    crisco10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,323 ✭✭✭crisco10


    ScrubsfanChris wrote: »
    The last thing the sport needs right now is another rule change. All the rules that are in place now should stick for at least 3 years before they are looked at again.

    Agree. First of all get used to the no pulling down of mauls rule again. I have seen a lot of people get away with this this season (not just Healy ;))


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  • #7
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Justind wrote: »
    The injury to Cian Healy occurred in a maul.
    Not a ruck.
    While there was a maul going on at the time, Hayes was officially rucking the ball. Otherwise the ban would have been greater. That Im assuming was his defence. But regardless of his intent, it was very reckless stuff from the Bull.


  • #8
    csm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭csm


    how was he rucking the ball if it was a maul ('officially' or otherwise)?

    healy didn't have the ball on the ground, hayes was sticking the boot in 'cause healy was trying to bring the maul down.*

    his defence was his excellent disciplinary record to date, which brought the sentence down (and rightly so).

    * i base this on the one youtube clip i've seen. my stream broke down at a critical moment...


  • #9
    toomevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    Folks, can we get back to discussing the thread topic, and forget "Bull-Gate". It's tedious, it's over, it's done, it's finished....


  • #10
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    While there was a maul going on at the time, Hayes was officially rucking the ball

    Just to mention that the ball was held at the time by a player who was upright thus it was a maul. No ruck was formed because the ball was still being held up.

    The subject of the thread poses a good question on the ruck laws. However it is posted as a reaction to "incidents". These are disciplinary matters carried out in recklessness. They did not occur in game due to its mechanics.

    The purpose of the ruck is to provide a phase after a tackle where contest for the ball leads to another phase. A recycle.
    How to improve the ruck with these elements in mind?
    Well, by a contest for possession being possible even after a ruck is formed (via legal counterrucking), committing more players is the obvious way for team in possession to retain that possession.
    More players committed in ruck means more less players out in lines.
    Less players in lines means more space for running play.
    This is why the ruck determines how the sport goes more than any other area of the game.

    Personally I would like to see more 'use it or lose it' applied to rucks, where if not used, possession goes via turnover scrum to other side. This would eliminate those tedious milimetre gaining pick-and-drives which are just as bad as, if not worse than, a kicking duel to watch.


  • #11
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    Given recent high profile incidents in Munster Leinster games it led me to think that maybe rucking laws should be improved. Are there to many players involved on the fringe that makes it hard to referees to pick up incidents and act quickly enough to stop injuries which happened to Healy and Cullen happening.

    The ruck and the scrum are the hardest parts of the game to ref.
    However if you make them too simple the game looses some of its technical complexity which is why people like Union over League which has no scrums (as we know them) and no rucks.

    I really think the quality of reffing makes a difference to these facets of them game.


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  • #12
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    While there was a maul going on at the time, Hayes was officially rucking the ball. Otherwise the ban would have been greater. That Im assuming was his defence. But regardless of his intent, it was very reckless stuff from the Bull.

    No he wasn't, the ball wasn't anywhere near Healy.


    Anyway on the original point, the incidents referred to have nothing what-so-ever to do with the laws at the ruck.


  • #13
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    The ruck and the scrum are the hardest parts of the game to ref.
    However if you make them too simple the game looses some of its technical complexity which is why people like Union over League which has no scrums (as we know them) and no rucks.

    I really think the quality of reffing makes a difference to these facets of them game.
    Yes i would agree if we were to implement rugby league laws and thereby free the ball up more quickly, skills like Rucking and Mauling might lose out. But it seems to me that there is a lot players involved at the breakdown which means Referees and touch judges have their work out a bit.
    In a high pressure situation where players maybe get frustrated when the ball is not coming out quick enough it leads to incidents which could be avoided by tightening up of rules.
    any suggestions?


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