Recording Cello

deathronan

Hi,

Ive to record a solo cello piece in the irish chamber orchestra space this weekend and was looking for a bit of advice on microphone placement, stereo mic. techniques and what types i should use.

The equipment I have access to is as follows

2 X DPA 4011 Mics.
Neumann U87
Rode NT5

I'll be recording to Logic.

Cheers,

Dave

madtheory

Use the DPAs with a stereo bar to mount them on one stand! Great mics. I prefer XY at a distance of about a metre or so, if the room is good. You'll have to put on a good pair of headphones and move the mic stand until you get the sound you hear in the room with your own ears. That's the "secret" of mic positioning. Using your ears!! You want the sound that makes your heart jump with joy, not the one that you "think" is right

Check the dpa microphones website, their "Mic University" lists all the stereo techniques and how to use them.

More importantly make sure the performer is very happy.

bedbugs

I had great results recently micing a cello from behind.

PaulBrewer

I'm not long in this evening from a session in AIR Lyndhurst in London recording a string quartet (on some tracks trio) , all the players who do the James Bond stuff ! Shocking good ...


What sort of context is the cello being used in?

In AIR today they had a Decca Tree which is effectively a stereo pair with a centre mic used as a mono fill in. This was about 8 ft high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decca_tree

They also had a U47 about a .75 metres away at head height pointing (roughly) at the bowing point.

I was surprised how present the sound was considering the mic distance.

You could recreate a similar set up if you have height using the DPAs replacing the D tree (as Mad suggests) and the U87 as your closer mic.

One song they did today was a Quartet and Voice track on which the Decca Tree was the only source.

On a denser pop track the tree was also used but less so, with the U47 (or 87 in your instance) giving it some 'front' .

Distance is an important part of a balanced cello recording.

bedbugs

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I'm not long in this evening from a session in AIR Lyndhurst in London recording a string quartet (on some tracks trio) , all the players who do the James Bond stuff ! Shocking good ...


What sort of context is the cello being used in?

In AIR today they had a Decca Tree which is effectively a stereo pair with a centre mic used as a mono fill in. This was about 8 ft high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decca_tree

They also had a U47 about a .75 metres away at head height pointing (roughly) at the bowing point.

I was surprised how present the sound was considering the mic distance.

You could recreate a similar set up if you have height using the DPAs replacing the D tree (as Mad suggests) and the U87 as your closer mic.

One song they did today was a Quartet and Voice track on which the Decca Tree was the only source.

On a denser pop track the tree was also used but less so, with the U47 (or 87 in your instance) giving it some 'front' .

Distance is an important part of a balanced cello recording.

This is great info P. thanks,.

petermaher

Which studio were you in in Air today P?

PaulBrewer

petermaher wrote: »

Which studio were you in in Air today P?

Lyndhurst Hall itself ..... ferocious !

Phuck up a couple of mics pointing roughly at the band and hey presto - pure magic.

Them boys are sick ...

http://www.airstudios.com/studios/lyndhurst-hall.aspx

PaulBrewer

Jeez .... !

http://www.imdb.com/company/co0105248/

bedbugs

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Jeez .... !

http://www.imdb.com/company/co0105248/

Jeez indeed. Would love to have a peek in there.

PaulBrewer

It was proper scary.

I've been in a million studios and worked with a zillion players but never experienced anything like it.

Old pros like Rupert and Graham the engineer and even Olga who works for AIR were genuinely excited.

At one stage we soloed the centre mic in the decca tree for a listen. We'd all have been very happy just to use that alone.

Great players (all playing Stradivarius Axes I was told) great room , 1 mic .... phuckin' deadly !

You learn more in a half an hour experiencing that than reading all my posts put together

bedbugs

What was the project?

petermaher

bedbugs wrote: »

What was the project?

Jaws 6?

madtheory

PaulBrewer wrote: »

What sort of context is the cello being used in?

In AIR today they had a Decca Tree which is effectively a stereo pair with a centre mic used as a mono fill in. This was about 8 ft high.

It's a solo cello piece Paul. A Decca tree is for large ensembles, not usually used for solo pieces. Try it by all means bedbugs, but I think you'll probably have an odd stereo image, and it will probably make you feel a bit sick.

It'd be interesting to compare the two (XY and Decca), if the performer is up for it and you have the time, and it doesn't interfere with getting a good performance.

Anyways, the DPA Microphone University explains all that, I think they have the Decca Tree in there. I'd trust that before Wiki! (Disclaimer- I didn't look at the Wiki link).

Finally- the real trick with mic positioning is not fancy or magic, it's simple. You listen to the instrument in the room. If it sounds good there, set up your stereo bar, put on the cans and move the mic stand til it sounds the same as your naked ears.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

It's a solo cello piece Paul. A Decca tree is for large ensembles, not usually used for solo pieces. Try it by all means bedbugs, but I think you'll probably have an odd stereo image, and it will probably make you feel a bit sick.

It'd be interesting to compare the two (XY and Decca), if the performer is up for it and you have the time, and it doesn't interfere with getting a good performance.

Anyways, the DPA Microphone University explains all that, I think they have the Decca Tree in there. I'd trust that before Wiki! (Disclaimer- I didn't look at the Wiki link).

Finally- the real trick with mic positioning is not fancy or magic, it's simple. You listen to the instrument in the room. If it sounds good there, set up your stereo bar, put on the cans and move the mic stand til it sounds the same as your naked ears.

Or a small ensemble as was the case here.
However if you re read my post I wasn't suggesting using a decca tree.

madtheory

PaulBrewer wrote: »

You could recreate a similar set up if you have height using the DPAs replacing the D tree (as Mad suggests) and the U87 as your closer mic.

O right. Your suggestion seems ambiguous to me. What do you mean by "if you have height"? The idea of the centre mic in the Decca tree is to fill in the hole left by spacing the LR mics out so far. I don't see why you'd need that for XY?

You meant the 87 as a close mic? Probably a good idea, you'd get a "modern" sound with the close mic and a "true" sound with the DPAs. Only problem I have with that is that personally I think it's better to commit to one way of doing it. Making decisions on the spot usually gives a better result I feel. I also think that any opportunity to record in stereo and not to close mic is an opportunity worth taking, certainly so with classical and trad, less so with rock/ pop.

deathronan

Cheer for the info lads, its an assignment I have to do as part of my masters. It's going to be a solo cellist playing Bach. We have the Irish Chamber Orchestra space for about 2 hours Saturday evening, its supposed to have lovely acoustics.

PaulBrewer

deathronan wrote: »

Cheer for the info lads, its an assignment I have to do as part of my masters. It's going to be a solo cellist playing Bach. We have the Irish Chamber Orchestra space for about 2 hours Saturday evening, its supposed to have lovely acoustics.

You're on the pigs back so ! Best of Luck.

madtheory

Cool! Sounds like fun. Post up the recording if you're allowed.

deathronan

Heres a small excerpt from some of the stuff we recorded. This is just the raw audio

Cheers

http://soundcloud.com/j_pike_2k3

PaulBrewer

On my laptop it sounds good !

madtheory

That sounds huge! Really good. Nice ambience and tone, taking mp3 into account. Has there been any dynamics compression/ mastering done? What did you record onto?

deathronan

cheers guys.

We recorded through a mixing desk straight into protools, I cant remember the name of the mixing desk but i can find out. Theres been no mastering or dynamic compression put on it, they were bounced straight out of pro tools untouched.