EU = ESSU

claudiog

European Soviet Socialist Union

The EU is a centralized system that sucks money from those are the actual producer of richness, to feed parasite bureaucrats and deploy these money to a bunch people pushed out of market, such as the today farmers.

Read this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125473606240264063.html

Remaking the words of Bastiat: The EU is the fictitious entity thanks to which all the people thinks to live on the shoulders of all.

ei.sdraob

A publication from a country with a central government that sucks trillions and spends even more trillions (USA) is calling EU, a loose alliance of states, with a budget smaller than most US states:

a socialist

right............. :rolleyes:


EU Budget > €120.7 billion for the year 2007 (€864.3 billion for the period 2007-2013) half goes to farmers

US Budget > $2.77 trillion 2007

2010 United States federal budget - $3.60 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama)
2009 United States federal budget - $3.10 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush)
2008 United States federal budget - $2.90 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
2007 United States federal budget - $2.77 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush)
2006 United States federal budget - $2.7 trillion (submitted 2005 by President Bush)
2005 United States federal budget - $2.4 trillion (submitted 2004 by President Bush)
2004 United States federal budget - $2.3 trillion (submitted 2003 by President Bush)
2003 United States federal budget - $2.2 trillion (submitted 2002 by President Bush)
2002 United States federal budget - $2.0 trillion (submitted 2001 by President Bush)
2001 United States federal budget - $1.9 trillion (submitted 2000 by President Clinton)
2000 United States federal budget - $1.8 trillion (submitted 1999 by President Clinton)
1999 United States federal budget - $1.7 trillion (submitted 1998 by President Clinton)
1998 United States federal budget - $1.7 trillion (submitted 1997 by President Clinton)
1997 United States federal budget - $1.6 trillion (submitted 1996 by President Clinton)
1996 United States federal budget - $1.6 trillion (submitted 1995 by President Clinton)

DaSilva

claudiog wrote: »

European Soviet Socialist Union

The EU is a centralized system that sucks money from those are the actual producer of richness, to feed parasite bureaucrats and deploy these money to a bunch people pushed out of market, such as the today farmers.

It sounds stupid to just dump money on farmers I agree, but it is a solution to not letting a lot of workers go bust overnight. What would you suggest instead?

Oh and who are the producers of richness? The large corporation owners? Ahh yes I noticed in the USA since Bush's tax reforms for the wealthy nobody goes hungry any more.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

A publication from a country with a central government that sucks trillions and spends even more trillions (USA) is calling EU, a loose alliance of states, with a budget smaller than most US states:

a socialist

right............. :rolleyes:


EU Budget > €120.7 billion for the year 2007 (€864.3 billion for the period 2007-2013) half goes to farmers

US Budget > $2.77 trillion 2007

Your only problem with the thread is that it's from an American source? China's budget according to CIA factbook in 2008 was
revenues: $847.8 billion
expenditures: $861.6 billion (2008 est.)

I guess that somehow makes the USA more socialist than China?

Iwasfrozen

Also the use of the word "socialist" as a bad thing is certainly debatable.

turgon

Well for once we have a nice anti-libertarian twist put on the "EU = Soviet Union" conspiracy complex. Quite a novelty.

humanji

claudiog wrote: »

European Soviet Socialist Union

The EU is a centralized system that sucks money from those are the actual producer of richness, to feed parasite bureaucrats and deploy these money to a bunch people pushed out of market, such as the today farmers.

Read this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125473606240264063.html

Remaking the words of Bastiat: The EU is the fictitious entity thanks to which all the people thinks to live on the shoulders of all.

Sore loser? Why not just move on?

namloc1980

claudiog wrote: »

European Soviet Socialist Union

The EU is a centralized system that sucks money from those are the actual producer of richness, to feed parasite bureaucrats and deploy these money to a bunch people pushed out of market, such as the today farmers.

Read this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125473606240264063.html

Remaking the words of Bastiat: The EU is the fictitious entity thanks to which all the people thinks to live on the shoulders of all.

Comparing the EU to the USSR is just ridiculous - politically and economically they are polar opposites. I would however agree to a certain extent in relation to the subsidies given to farmers and in particular dairy farmers. I always find it amusing to see dairy farmers protesting against the EU when they have single handedly benefited more than any other sector from the EU through the Common Agri. Policy with billions upon billions of €€€ in subsidies over the years as well as the scandal that was intervention with milk lakes and butter mountains etc. Agriculture has, since the beginning of the EU project, been the single biggest single item of expenditure in the EU budget and remains so to this day. I don't see the EU sending cheques in the post to anyone trying to make a living other than those in the farming sector.

Now that the EU is (finally) trying to wean farmers off their subsidy addiction, they are protesting. IMO it's about time and they should deal with real world economics and the free market like the rest of us.

Rant over / :cool:

claudiog

ei.sdraob wrote: »

A publication from a country with a central government that sucks trillions and spends even more trillions (USA) is calling EU, a loose alliance of states, with a budget smaller than most US states:

a socialist

right............. :rolleyes:

Sorry, this is meaningless.
The truth is not measured by the nationality of the throat that come from.
You pointed out a false syllogism.

claudiog

DaSilva wrote: »

It sounds stupid to just dump money on farmers I agree, but it is a solution to not letting a lot of workers go bust overnight. What would you suggest instead?

Let bust. They will find something better to do, something that is actually required by the marked, something that the market worth to pay for.

Oh and who are the producers of richness? The large corporation owners? Ahh yes I noticed in the USA since Bush's tax reforms for the wealthy nobody goes hungry any more.

So in your opinion are the "large corporation owners" the only market's actor that produces richness? Please, show us why and how.

OldJay

claudiog wrote: »

European Soviet Socialist Union

The EU is a centralized system that sucks money from those are the actual producer of richness, to feed parasite bureaucrats and deploy these money to a bunch people pushed out of market, such as the today farmers.

Read this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125473606240264063.html

Ireland has done very well from EU membership.
No amount of Rupert Murdoch editorial pieces will ever counter that.
Unless you've actually lived in a country under a communist regime, I'd say your view is wholly unqualified.

As it happens, you're from Italy (I presume) a country that changes govt more times than a diarrhaetic hypocondriac with OCD changes their underwear so I'll guess you'll never know.

Thanks for the sweet thoughts anyway.

DaSilva

claudiog wrote: »

Let bust. They will find something better to do, something that is actually required by the marked, something that the market worth to pay for.

Letting them go bust does not solve the problem of them being without work. I actually completely understand your position, and don't actually disagree with it, nor do I totally agree with what is being done. You should try to see it for what it really is supposed to be though.
There are tons of farmers still in the EU.
We don't have the demand for them all.
Now lets look at two simplistic responses.
Let a lot of farmers go bust.
Lose some money artificially propping them up.

claudiog wrote: »

So in your opinion are the "large corporation owners" the only market's actor that produces richness? Please, show us why and how.

No they aren't the only contributors, in fact I don't think they are contributors at all, science and engineering typically are.

claudiog

namloc1980 wrote: »

Comparing the EU to the USSR is just ridiculous - politically and economically they are polar opposites.

Agree, title was obviously an overstatement to enhance the bad policy of subsidies that addicted some categories, such as the farmers.
Despite the objective differences between the EU and the USSR, this kind of policy is not too far from the well known "planned economy" which distinguished the USSR, and in general is the underlying policy in economy which characterizes the socialist/communist thought. The planned economy is characterized by directions that overcomes the free market, tipically leading in a subsidiezed economy (that for instance is the reason which teared down the economy of the USSR :rolleyes:).
So, even though the binding I'v made is not fair, it is also not so wrong.



Addicted tipically becomes depending by the addicted substance, as the farmers today shows us they are depending by subsidies.

Each time you plan subsidies you distort the market, often behind the mask of noble causes, such policies leads usually to more damages than leaving the free market as it would behave.
I'm not going to allege the extreme that people should be left starving, but I'm saying that with the excuse of aiding who is starving, often many other fills up their belly by stealing part of the revenue of many, which in turn it means making 'em as slaves.

Distorting the market also means that the resouces that would be available for purchasing some kind of goods are dragged away to feed those who are not able to offer their product cause inefficiency, selling their products at an artificial lower price, and would otherwise pushed out from the market. Further, since this distortion is made by imposing taxes, this double its negative effects in the economy, not to mention the immorality of this practice.


bye

OldJay

claudiog wrote: »

So, even though the binding I'v made is not fair, it is also not so wrong

It is very wrong, misleading and overly melodramatic.

claudiog

Justind wrote: »

As it happens, you're from Italy (I presume) a country that changes govt more times than a diarrhaetic hypocondriac with OCD changes their underwear so I'll guess you'll never know.

I'm writing from Veneto, which is formally Italy as it was Eire formally British before its independence of 1922.

BTW, nice post.

claudiog

Justind wrote: »

It is very wrong, misleading and overly melodramatic.

Really?
Prove it!

USE

This thread is highly offensive.

I am a citizen of a former soviet country. I know the differences between the Soviet "Union" (quotes are necessary, it wasn't a union it that true meaning) and the European Union. And exactly because of those differencies I support EU so much.

Only a totally ignorant person could tell that EU is something alike Soviet "Union". You either don't know the history at all, soviet crimes was the same as those of nazis, or you give a very biased opinion defending your own interests while telling lies.

Disgusting. How low can such eurosceptics go?

It is one of those many videos you can use for your education:
http://www.europarltv.europa.eu/yourVoice.aspx?action=viewVideo&packageId=8e255cb8-29e1-4ab0-9b67-71492c07d612

And believe me, this video is very "gentle" and I mean very. It is not intended to criticize Soviet "Union", it only mentions some differences in a very narrow field. A deeper view on what Soviet "Union" was would be shocking.

So if you are not competent in the subject, simply restrain from the inadequate and misleading claims that only show your ignorance and discredit both you and the position you support.


Further reading:

Human rights in the Soviet "Union":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Soviet_Union

Gulags:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

European Union is the complete opposite to Soviet "Union".

---

We have much more valid arguments to relate eurosceptics to communists (even if I do not suggest to do that). Like Vaclac Klaus: he's an eurosceptic, but you should also read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A1clav_Klaus#Relationship_with_communists

ei.sdraob

USE wrote: »

This thread is highly offensive.

I am a citizen of a former soviet country. I know the differences between the Soviet "Union" (quotes are necessary, it wasn't a union it that true meaning) and the European Union. And exactly because of those differencies I support EU so much.

/rant

have you noticed why the only people that thanked the OP are regular members of the Conspiracy Theories forum, and one of them believes we are gonna be microchiped!

im not a psychologists but i think something went wrong when they were children, this secret desire to be subjugates by some hidden "elites" is beyond rediculos

this is why the NO side is looked down at, some of these people are still (after the referendum) going around and spreading manure to this day

lack of knowledge of irish and european history, economics and politics with crap taken from Zeitgeist films

make certain people act very very "weird"

sensibleken

USE wrote: »

This thread is highly offensive.

I am a citizen of a former soviet country. I know the differences between the Soviet "Union" (quotes are necessary, it wasn't a union it that true meaning) and the European Union. And exactly because of those differencies I support EU so much.

Only a totally ignorant person could tell that EU is something alike Soviet "Union". You either don't know the history at all, soviet crimes was the same as those of nazis, or you give a very biased opinion defending your own interests while telling lies.

Disgusting. How low can such eurosceptics go?

It is one of those many videos you can use for your education:
http://www.europarltv.europa.eu/yourVoice.aspx?action=viewVideo&packageId=8e255cb8-29e1-4ab0-9b67-71492c07d612

And believe me, this video is very "gentle" and I mean very. It is not intended to criticize Soviet "Union", it only mentions some differences in a very narrow field. A deeper view on what Soviet "Union" was would be shocking.

So if you are not competent in the subject, simply restrain from the inadequate and misleading claims that only show your ignorance and discredit both you and the position you support.


Further reading:

Human rights in the Soviet "Union":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Soviet_Union

Gulags:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

European Union is the complete opposite to Soviet "Union".

---

We have much more valid arguments to relate eurosceptics to communists (even if I do not suggest to do that). Like Vaclac Klaus: he's an eurosceptic, but you should also read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A1clav_Klaus#Relationship_with_communists

thank you. this is exactly what needs to be said when the tin foil hat brigade start comparing the EU to the soviet union

claudiog

USE wrote: »

This thread is highly offensive.

I am a citizen of a former soviet country. I know the differences between the Soviet "Union" (quotes are necessary, it wasn't a union it that true meaning) and the European Union. And exactly because of those differencies I support EU so much.

Only a totally ignorant person could tell that EU is something alike Soviet "Union". You either don't know the history at all, soviet crimes was the same as those of nazis, or you give a very biased opinion defending your own interests while telling lies.

Disgusting. How low can such eurosceptics go?

It is one of those many videos you can use for your education:
http://www.europarltv.europa.eu/yourVoice.aspx?action=viewVideo&packageId=8e255cb8-29e1-4ab0-9b67-71492c07d612

And believe me, this video is very "gentle" and I mean very. It is not intended to criticize Soviet "Union", it only mentions some differences in a very narrow field. A deeper view on what Soviet "Union" was would be shocking.

So if you are not competent in the subject, simply restrain from the inadequate and misleading claims that only show your ignorance and discredit both you and the position you support.


Further reading:

Human rights in the Soviet "Union":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Soviet_Union

Gulags:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

European Union is the complete opposite to Soviet "Union".

---

We have much more valid arguments to relate eurosceptics to communists (even if I do not suggest to do that). Like Vaclac Klaus: he's an eurosceptic, but you should also read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A1clav_Klaus#Relationship_with_communists

First. I have no offensive intention, if you found it offensive it could be due by your own perspective. Sorry, that's not my problem.

Second. If you read all the thread you might had undestood that the EU-SovietUnion comparison was merely provocative.

claudiog

ei.sdraob wrote: »

/rant

have you noticed why the only people that thanked the OP are regular members of the Conspiracy Theories forum, and one of them believes we are gonna be microchiped!

Conspiracy theories??:eek: Someone else said: "thin foil hats" ! ?? :eek:
LOL, I'm not rely on these strawman.

sensibleken

claudiog wrote: »

Conspiracy theories??:eek: Someone else said: "thin foil hats" ! ?? :eek:
LOL, I'm not rely on these strawman.

who said thin foil hats exactly?

evercloserunion

sensibleken wrote: »

who said thin foil hats exactly?

They'd have to be very thick foil hats to stop all the EU brain control waves.

evercloserunion

claudiog wrote: »

First. I have no offensive intention, if you found it offensive it could be due by your own perspective. Sorry, that's not my problem.

BS. If I called you a Nazi there would be little doubt that it was intended offensively. This is no different.

sceptre

evercloserunion wrote: »

BS. If I called you a Nazi there would be little doubt that it was intended offensively. This is no different.

Yes it is. It's the difference between a generalised comment that someone in particular finds offensive by association and a comment made specifically at another member which insults.

Now, let's move on with whatever the discussion actually is (which incidentally I find a bit on the far side of far out and I've said that before when people go into wackyland and compare the EU with the USSR but that's just me).

You guys know that the comment above and the one that preceded it (and the one that preceded that) belong as reported posts, not as public hissy fits.

Yes, that's a mod post (except the for the unbolded bit, which is my personal opinion).