The A/R/T Young Athlete Bursary - A call for volunteers

--amadeus--

We all bemoan the lack of support that athletes - especially young athletes - get. The cost of equipment, training and travel is steep and lots of young athletes simply give up and drift away. Even at senior level there are lots of talented athletes who may never make the jump to International level simply because of a lack of support rather than a lack of talent.

Now we can't make life changing interventions. But there are hundreds of contributors on here and thousands of readers (lurkers). And we have good relationships with a couple of kit suppliers. And more and more grassroots Internet based communities are attempting to directly tackle causes and issues. For example some of you may have heard of Ebbsfleet United where a group of football fans paid £35 each to buy an actual football club.

Now I'm not suggesting we buy an athlete (although my own rates are quite reasonable for most legal activities ). But we could have a 6 month or annual A/R/T award. We could ask for €10 or so from people on here paid by cash, cheque or paypal into a dedicated bank account. If 100 of teh thousands who read this section paid in then thats €1,000. We could also talk to the likes of Ger from Pearl Izumi about sponsored kit. It's not a life changing amount of money but for a talented junior it might make quite a difference. We could get nominations from people on here, maybe promote it through the AAI and clubs. And the winner would / could come on here and keep us up to date on progress, maybe keep a training log and so on.

Daft idea or does it have potential?

(yes I was on a long run when I thought this up, it beats thinking about how sore my legs are!)

menoscemo

Great Idea, I would certainly contribute.

tunney

An interesting idea. A UK tri forum (tritalk) did this a few years ago to help one of their promising long distance athletes get a break. It woked and he did. I'd back it but would be very much dependent on the particular athlete, their discipline, their age and what the money was going on.

--amadeus--

tunney wrote: »

An interesting idea. A UK tri forum (tritalk) did this a few years ago to help one of their promising long distance athletes get a break. It woked and he did. I'd back it but would be very much dependent on the particular athlete, their discipline, their age and what the money was going on.

Cool, just goes to show there is no such thing as a new idea. Do you have any links?

Agree 100% on the need to iron out qualifying criteria before any money gets put down. Based on the demographics I think it'll be an athlete rather than Tri (there are significantly more runners than Tri around here) but absolutely agree that the cash needs strings, to go on equipment, races or training and not booze or a bodykit for a Glanza!

tunney

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Cool, just goes to show there is no such thing as a new idea. Do you have any links?

Agree 100% on the need to iron out qualifying criteria before any money gets put down. Based on the demographics I think it'll be an athlete rather than Tri (there are significantly more runners than Tri around here) but absolutely agree that the cash needs strings, to go on equipment, races or training and not booze or a bodykit for a Glanza!

No problem with it being an "athlete" (what because you do triathlon you can't be an athlete???) or even a TnF person. As long as detailed cash requirements are given and its stated clearly, possibly with receipts, where the money goes.

I know some elite IM distance female triathletes have turned into glorified esorts to help ends meet (again Tunney exageration here but they are, for example, ebaying dinners with them in vegas, no strings and no sex, probably, to raise money to help make ends meet when they became injured and no prize money to meet bills.) No one, regardless of their sport, should have to resort to the likes of this so I'd definitely support it and perhaps not exclude lifestyle requirements (bills, rent, mortgage, food) when a neo-pro athlete has
fallen on hard times. case by case basis really.

Actually count me in definitely.

scottreynolds

I'll find a tenner somewhere. Paypal is preferred.

I'd say we should also make the "Boards Athlete" maintain a weekly post outlining what they are up to etc for the duration of there 'sponsorship'. this is double edged, Tunney can keep an eye on the cash and I can get an idea of the training thats happening etc as this is probably the greatest benefit for the people of this forum.

We could have a crack at raising the funds in other ways if we can't get it from the people round here.

hunnymonster

count me in,

Blueskye

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Woddle

Count me in also.Happy to help
I would prefer to see us concentrate on the age group 18-23, maybe even 25) as this I would imagine is the age group who has lost its way and would be looking for a way back.

ChickenTikka

Good idea. I'd chip in a tenner.

You could consider a Boards AC race sometime to help raise the funds??

You'd need to outline the detail a bit more ... do athletes apply for this (probably should if there is expectation of a regular update here on progress), do you include carded athletes (i.e. ones already receiving financial help from AAI), does it max out at 1000, would there be enough in the pot to do it for 2 athlete or double the amount for 1 athlete etc. And you'd need a volunteer subcomittee to make the decision I reckon rather than a boards poll - unless you can guarantee that people can't vote twice.

dna_leri

Good idea. You might want to do this under the auspices of Boards AC where non-members can also contribute. That way you have got the financial and reporting structure setup already (I hope).

I presume it would be a once off award of say €1000, rather than committing to a fixed amount every year - hard to be sure of future contributions.

If so is €1000 enough to make a difference to a young athlete, probably? I would say it should be limited to equipment or competition/training related travel so that contributors can see the end result and be more likely to dig deep the next time.

We would need to flesh out the criteria, but I would favour it being targeted towards athletes moving from junior to senior ranks and are already identified as worthy of support by AAI/ISC - possibly those in the developmental squad who currently get max €5000 grant. See http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/highperformancecardingallocations.pdf

In terms of allocating the cash, I would recommend the contributors select 3 people who would make the decision based on agreed criteria.

Sorry if this is getting too detailed but the success of something like this will depend on the gritty details.

Woddle

dna_leri wrote: »

Good idea. You might want to do this under the auspices of Boards AC where non-members can also contribute. That way you have got the financial and reporting structure setup already (I hope).

It is

This is exciting.

tunney

Can someone elaborate the way pro "athletes" (yes I am bitter over that one) tend to fund themselves. I know in tri its through sponsorship and prize purses.

--amadeus--

I just said "athletes" to differentiate runners from Triathletes, no offence intended!

Looks like there is a fair amount of support for the idea and some excellent suggestions above. In direct answer to a few points:

- I'd def consider it best restricted to juniors or those moving to senior ranks. While I know that this (tragically) excludes me from nomination and getting all the cash I think it is in the greater good...

- I would like to put "strings" on teh money, as suggested, so that it is used for the betterment of teh athlete. But in the case of a young athlete living away from home some wriggle room should be built in I guess.

- I would actually prefer to not give it to an athlete already in receipt of grant aid. I think it would make more difference to someone on teh fringes, but I'm up for being overruled.

- Great idea to put it under the auspices of BAC. I'm not in that club so I couldn't speak for them but using thier structures makes a lot of sense.

- I like the idea of a smoke filled room with a cabal of 3 wise ones picking the worthy winner. It would be a shame if we couldn't have some sort of public element but I don't see how we can with the issue of multiple votes.

Right so, next steps:

- I'll run this by the Powers That Be (Community Managers) and make sure that they are ok. I can't see them not being but need to verify

- Woddle, do you need to get BAC board approval for this?

- Nominations for organising committee below along with any suggestions. I'd like to have at least one triathlete on the panel and open it to Tri nominations if possible.

Anything I've missed?

meathcountysec

When considering potential recipients bear in mind that some athletes on NCAA college scholarships are restricted in the types of aid they can accept because of NCAA amateurism or financial aid requirements.

I am personally aware of one athlete who had to forego a "training grant" because of such restrictions.

Woddle

--amadeus-- wrote: »

- Woddle, do you need to get BAC board approval for this?

I've already talked to Peckham about it, I'll send you a PM later. I would also like to see it go to someone not already recieving a grant. Good work.

helpisontheway

Fantastic idea!!:cool:
There are so many talented athletes out there who dont make it simply because of the financial element.Excluding the existing AAI grant recievers is definetly the way to go as there are alot of late developing athletes around who dont get on these lists and could be real stars with the right support.
I would also agree that there should be strings attached in relation to how the athlete spends it;maybe maximum percentages towards travel,phsio/massage,training facilities,training gear to make sure its being spent in the right way.
Ill gladly throw a few quid behind it!

--amadeus--

Right, Darragh (Community Manager) has given this the go-ahead, as long as it's clear that Boards itself (the Ltd Company) has no responsibility for the money, etc.

So, now what? Ideas and suggestions if you please! Do we nominate 3 or 5 people to get this off teh ground or do we do a general mish mash thread to get the ideas out first? It's Oct now, it would be good to do this in Jan, which gives us a couple of months. Which isn't long really so all input appreciated!

scottreynolds

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So, now what?

Sort out the money first before making any promises.

hunnymonster

yeah, I'd get the money (or at least the mechanism for collecting the money) sorted. In parallel I would start working on the guidelines we're going to us (transparency is gonna be important). By 3-5 people do you mean a group of us to administrate/be on shortlisting team?

shels4ever

Sounds like a good idea, Just a few questions.

1. Open to Athlete and tir-athlete?
2. Ensure it does cause problems with possible grants etc.
3. BAC been involved will need to be looked into, not sure if we could be give wads of cash to juniors from another club might not go down to well , (so we should sign up every good junior in the country ) could be seen as tapping up. Also AAi rules in this would need to be looked into, so i'm now sure if that would be possible,
   

osnola ibax

don't know anything about the logistics of this but count me in for a contribution

misty floyd

osnola ivax wrote: »

don't know anything about the logistics of this but count me in for a contribution

me too.

ecoli

I think this is a great idea but i would agree that it should be given to the fringe athletes rather than the ones already recieving aid as it levels the playing field n providing better competition and an overall increase in standards.
In regards to US based athletes i also agree that it would be next to impossible as this sort of aid can actually jeopardise there eligibilty to run for their college and in terms of their equipment and gear this is already supplied by the colleges for each athlete.

Kiptanui

Excellent idea. I'd have no problem coming up with the cash.

We would need an explnation of how it ws going to be decided. Criteria would need to be established.
e.g a group of sprinters will choose a sprinter. A group of middle distance athletes will choose a cross country/middle distance guy. We all have preferences and bias. The recent athlete of the quarter shows how this occurs.

Its a great idea, I hope it gets up and running! We just need clarification of the parmeters.

--amadeus--

Good ideas and I 100% agree about getting the cash sorted before we make any promises. I'd want to be at least 75% of teh way there before even publishing this beyond here. Although roping in other running websites might give us a better chance of hitting teh money.

Yes on the 3-5 people getting together to do the admin stuff. Organise a bank account, agree parameters, draw up application form, sort out the mechanics of cash collection, etc. They would then publicise it (though I suspect word will get out pretty quickly anyway) and do a preliminary sort of candidates. I would like some form of public vote but we need to get away from vote rigging allegations so that needs some thought.

shels4ever wrote: »

Sounds like a good idea, Just a few questions.

1. Open to Athlete and tir-athlete?
2. Ensure it does cause problems with possible grants etc.
3. BAC been involved will need to be looked into, not sure if we could be give wads of cash to juniors from another club might not go down to well , (so we should sign up every good junior in the country ) could be seen as tapping up. Also AAi rules in this would need to be looked into, so i'm now sure if that would be possible,
   

Good questions.

1. Open to Athlete and tir-athlete? Yes, totally
2. Ensure it does cause problems with possible grants etc. Agree, but I think that by making this an athlete applied for grant we can put that responsibility on the athlete, not us. And the preference seems to be for a non-supported athlete anyway.
3. BAC been involved will need to be looked into Yep, already come up so we're drifting away from that

I personally wouldn't consider a US based athlete as eligible. The kind of person I initially had in mind was a talented athlete, aged 16 - 23 who wins rings around him/herself locally but has never made a breakthrough nationally / internationally. Someone who has ability and promise but has not received any other funding. Someone obviously committed to improving as an athlete and with a clear idea of how the cash would help them make a breakthrough (eg a good triathlete who needs it to put towards a better bike, or a thrower needing specialist coaching or whatever). Someone on an Athletics scholarship in the US is already pretty well on track and a few hundred / a thousand euro of our money won't make any difference to them.

I think we're all agreed we need the criteria established but we need the heads to do that. Woddle has drawn up a "hit list" of people he'd like co-opted in but if anyone specifically wants to be included shout now! I would imagine there is a lot of work in this so the more hands the better...

As for bias... We all have preconceptions and ideas about where the money should go but transparency will be the key and if we can get a public vote on teh athlete then the bias argument goes away.

btw I think calling it a "grant" rather than a "scholarship" is a better and clearer idea.

henryporter

Fantastic idea - I'm in as well. As the others say the money end of things should be sorted first, including tax implications for the recipient - presumably the bursary would be gifted as opposed to income for example (tax not my area of expertise btw)

new2triathlon

This is an excellent idea. I agree that it should be opened up to junior/u23 applicants who will not be in receipt on AAI Funding for 2010. There are some talented young athletes who may previously have had funding, but will lose it due to an injury during 2009 and not reaching carding standards but who still have huge potential- even if AAI temporarily abandon them.

Rineanna

I know I'm late to the party, but:

a) Great Idea
b) Count me in.

metamorphosis

Rineanna wrote: »

I know I'm late to the party, but:

a) Great Idea
b) Count me in.

+1 to the above.

damianmckeever

Sounds good count me in.

BeepBeep67

ditto

RAL3

count me in also

thirtyfoot

Sounds like it could be good as long as its managed well and the money spent on the right stuff,ie, physio, training trips, supplements, travel costs etc as opposed to just a blank cheque. Also, I'd say US (or Irish or UK) scholarship athletes or athletes in big clubs should be not included as they have good support networks. Its the ones who are in small clubs, not in college, maybe on the dole (in the current climate) who could get most out of it. My club is a big club and have a great athlete welfare programe for U23 athletes with overseas travel etc included so those type of athletes would not be in as much need as some young athlete in the ar*e hole of nowhere with little support.

If you wish to do it right, advertise on AAI, ask them to circulate to clubs and get clubs or kids to submit applications.

Oh, yes, it must be a race walker too, purely to overcome the race walker ethnic cleansing carried out by the stadium event loving minority tyrants on here recently, the stains of guilt over these recent atrocities will take generations to clean. I think I'll include one of to emphasize that this last bit was a joke.

--amadeus--

Excellent, looks like we have a solid enough basis of support so lets move this forward...

Mechanism
- Donations to be a minimum of €5, recommended €10 but no upper limit
- Donations accepted via PayPal, cash or cheque
- Deposit a/c to hold the money to be established with a minimum of 3 names associated, 2 of whom are needed to withdraw cash
- All donations confidential
- Minimum target €500. If this is not reached in a reasonable timeframe (3 months?) then all raised cash to go to a nominated charity
- Once minimum level is reached applications will be invited and money will continue to be raised until award of the Bursary is made

Candidate profile & General Conditions
These are suggestions to be finessed by the Committee.

- Aged 16 - 23
- Proven winner but more importantly independent verification of potential
- Be active in the general field of Athletics / Road Racing / Triathlon (for example a thrower could apply but not a swimmer)
- Not be in receipt of any other sponsorship, either in the form of goods, services or financial aid
- To be resident in teh island of Ireland and a member in good standing of an affiliated club (AAI, Triathlon Ireland)
- To be willing to maintain a training log on here with a minimum of 6 monthly updates
- Money to be spent only on athletic pursuits. Acceptable expenses would include travel, race entry fees, equipment, coaching, physio or medical expenses. General living expenses are outside the remit of this award barring exceptional circumstances
- Candidate must detail at application phase how they plan to spend the money and how they expect to progress because of this assistance

Committee
Woddle and I have bounced around a few names already but I wanted to see who was interested before approaching them. If you are interested in helping make this happen please either say so in here or send me a PM. Must be "known" to the ART forum (eg a member for more than 6 months and with 50+ posts in here)

Anticipated roles:

Administrative Members
3 who will hold bank details and oversee the paperwork. For example circulating details of teh bursary to clubs and teh AAI, setting up the bank and PayPal accounts, etc.

Selection committee
We want to have a public element to the selection to avoid accusations of bias and aid transparency. I believe the best model to do this would be to follow the same model as Tingle's Athlete of the Quarter award.

Basically the Administrative members will shortlist a number of potential candidates (depending on volumes we may want a group of people to do this rather than depending on teh same 3, workload could get heavy). This shortlist will then be made public with an anonymous profile of teh candidate, thier background, how they plan to spend the money and its expected impact, etc.

All members of the Selection committee (who must have paid into the Bursary) then rank the candidates, selecting thier top 5. All scores are tallied and the athlete with the best score wins.

~~~

That's everything I can think of. Yell if I've missed something and throw your name in below or by PM if you want to be part of teh Admin committee. Selection committee we will pick after we get to the target figures. If enough people are up for it we can expand teh Admin side to lighten the load and pull in door opening expertise when required. Commitee to be in place by end of Oct, all going well...

hunnymonster

I'm happy to help with the work. Only thing I don't want to be is signatory on the account for geographical reasons. Getting to the bank at same time as anyone else could be a problem.

figs

Great idea. Count me in for a donation.

Kiptanui

It will be great to see this get off the ground.

One word of caution though re the training log.
Whoever receives this will be a talanted young athlete committed to the sport and seeking to improve. Therefore I hope the armchair critics will back off and let them proceed with their training and racing without excessively scrutinising and criticising their training programme. If we believe in the athlete we should allow the athlete and coach get on with the job. How about getting them to provide race reports instead of a training log? The money should be of assistance, not a vehicle to criticise.

ss43

Kiptanui wrote: »

It will be great to see this get off the ground.

One word of caution though re the training log.
Whoever receives this will be a talanted young athlete committed to the sport and seeking to improve. Therefore I hope the armchair critics will back off and let them proceed with their training and racing without excessively scrutinising and criticising their training programme. If we believe in the athlete we should allow the athlete and coach get on with the job. How about getting them to provide race reports instead of a training log? The money should be of assistance, not a vehicle to criticise.

Maybe a locked thread that only they can post on. It would be nice to learn from them by seeing what training they're doing. You'd learn very little from just race reports in my opinion.

Or we could tell themnot to read the thread cos idiots (and possibly some sensible people) could tear apart their training. that way we could discuss it and learn from that and they wouldn't have to suffer the consequneces of having their approach ridiculed.

thirtyfoot

Kiptanui wrote: »

It will be great to see this get off the ground.

One word of caution though re the training log.
Whoever receives this will be a talanted young athlete committed to the sport and seeking to improve. Therefore I hope the armchair critics will back off and let them proceed with their training and racing without excessively scrutinising and criticising their training programme. If we believe in the athlete we should allow the athlete and coach get on with the job. How about getting them to provide race reports instead of a training log? The money should be of assistance, not a vehicle to criticise.

Thats a good point. Very good athletes may not be willing to publicise their program. Their coach may not be happy either. It can be a very personal thing for some people. Maybe high level overview of training or a weekly update - mileage or what phase they are in if not a distance athlete could be an option. Then again, some athletes/coaches might be willing to list their training in return for a few bob.

thirtyfoot

ss43 wrote: »

Or we could tell themnot to read the thread cos idiots (and possibly some sensible people) could tear apart their training. that way we could discuss it and learn from that and they wouldn't have to suffer the consequneces of having their approach ridiculed.

Thats would be a bit like doing a Life of Brian on it and opening your shutters bollick naked to a hoard of people first thing in the morning, except you know you are doing it but can't open you eyes to see the reaction. It would be very hard not to read the thread (or indeed not open your eyes).

ss43

Tingle wrote: »

Thats would be a bit like doing a Life of Brian on it and opening your shutters bollick naked to a hoard of people first thing in the morning, except you know you are doing it but can't open you eyes to see the reaction. It would be very hard not to read the thread (or indeed not open your eyes).

Yeah, I know but if you've warned them in advance it's their own fault. I think making them share a good amount of info in return for the grant would be fair enough. I'd imagine there would be someone deserving who would also be willing to share info.

Giving half a picture of the training can be more confusing than helpful. They wouldn't have to do a log like some people here do but just saying Week 1: 100km, Week 2, 110km, Weeks 120km, Week 4 100km etc, isn't really much use. Solid info as to what they're doing and why is something we can all benefit from. If someone just says they're working on strength it's not much use as strength to different people can cover most different aspects of running fitness.

But then again, maybe just helping the athlete without getting anything in return is enough.

ChickenTikka

Kiptanui wrote: »

If we believe in the athlete we should allow the athlete and coach get on with the job. How about getting them to provide race reports instead of a training log? The money should be of assistance, not a vehicle to criticise.

I think the idea of race reports or trip reports is the way to go. I can't see the recipient been too keen on details on how their training is going. But a report after the event of how the event went and what went well or not in training beforehand would be good. It would also not distract from the event. Perhaps get them to introduce themselves on boards and identify 2 big targets that year. Then after each of these 2 targets, post an event report that gives a fair bit of info on how the event or trip went and what went well or not in training in the weeks leading up to it.

Last thing you want is the athlete spending alot of time on boards.ie answering questions from you guys/gals when he/she should be sleeping, training or studying.:D

ecoli

I would be more for the idea of maybe giving weekly updates or even monthly ones this way we can see how training is goig without having to going into much detail of their actual training schedule unless they want to like especially as feedback can help see where this concept can be developed from this idea of a bursary in futher progressions of it