Driving Ban - any info?

di_cbar

Hi,
I'm just looking for someone, anyone to shed some light on my driving ban, I'm currently serving a 5 year ban for 'dangerous driving causing serious bodily harm', which was handed down to me in the circuit court. It was the result of a total accident wrong place at the wrong time sort of a thing. I'm not even a year into my sentence and its effecting my whole life, work especially.:(

I was just wondering could any one tell me am i wasting my time trying to apply for my licence back before my appeal time comes as far as i was told it's two thirds the time, so, out of 60 months i can apply in 40 (but i can't wait this long). Do i just kiss my job good bye or do can i appeal my sentence and what or my chances of actually getting it back now?

P.S. "I would ask my solicitor but after what him and the barrister charged me I'm afraid that they'd try and charge me just for the advice".:mad:

Anyone in the same situation or bin here and done this?

Tom Young

The Forum Charter does not allow for advice. I'll leave it open on the basis you don't rely on the answers. Ideally a solicitor is your best best, there are significant downsides to appeals.

slimjimmc

According to Sec 7 of Road Traffic Act 2006 you may apply for your licence back once you've served half of your ban, 30mths in your case.

Removal of disqualification.
7.— The following section is substituted for section 29 of the Principal Act:

“29.— (1) This section applies to a person in respect of whom a disqualification order has been made, whether before or after the commencement of section 7 of the Road Traffic Act 2006, disqualifying the person for holding a licence during a period of more than 2 years, and which is the first such order made in respect of that person within a period of 10 years.

(2) A person to whom this section applies may, at any time following the completion of one-half of the period specified in the disqualification order, apply to the court which made the order, for the removal of the disqualification.

(3) In considering an application made under this section a court, without prejudice to its power to have regard to all of the matters that appear to the court to be relevant, may, in particular, have regard to the character of the applicant, his or her conduct after the conviction and the nature of the offence.

(4) Where a court considers it to be appropriate it may confirm the period specified in the order of disqualification or it may order the removal of the disqualification from a specified date that is such that the disqualification will have effect for at least two-thirds of the period specified in the order of disqualification.

(5) A person intending to make an application under this section shall give 14 days notice in writing to the Superintendent of the Garda Síochána for the district in which the person ordinarily resides.

(6) The court hearing an application under this section may order the applicant to pay the whole or any part of the costs.

(7) In this section ‘ disqualification order ’ means a consequential or an ancillary disqualification order.”.

di_cbar

slimjimmc wrote: »

According to Sec 7 of Road Traffic Act 2006 you may apply for your licence back once you've served half of your ban, 30mths in your case.

Thanks for the reply, so basically i'm not going to be back on the road any time soon!:( Thanks any ways.

Anyone else got any good news for me?

Shield

As is my understanding, you would need to have very good grounds to appeal. You're basically saying the judge got it wrong, or that he missed out on something. Appeal charges can be very costly too.

Whatever you did to warrant a 5 year driving ban must have been very serious because I know bans this long are not handed down for nothing.

The good news is that we've probably just saved you needless appeal fees.

di_cbar

psni wrote: »

As is my understanding, you would need to have very good grounds to appeal. You're basically saying the judge got it wrong, or that he missed out on something. Appeal charges can be very costly too.

Whatever you did to warrant a 5 year driving ban must have been very serious because I know bans this long are not handed down for nothing.

The good news is that we've probably just saved you needless appeal fees.

Thanks for the post,
I'm off for 'dangerous driving causing serious bodily harm', it was a complete accident which even the judge put down to lack of experience, as i'm only 20. if you want the full details i'l pm them to you.

I'm not trying to get my conviction overturned just to be back on the road.

MarkR

Wrong place wrong time doesn't really match up with the severity of the ban. The judge obviously thought that the public would be safer with you off the road.

You're not going to get anywhere without speaking to a solicitor. If a five year ban got overturned it would be in the papers, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Shield

Sending me a PM with the details is down to you, but it won't change what I'll be telling you. If you think there's a very good reason for an appeal, then you need to discuss that with your solicitor, and he will advise further. You're far better off giving him cash for a one-off meeting just to put your mind at rest.

I can save you even that much by telling you, in my experience, it would want to be very good. A judge won't change his mind because it's inconveniencing your personal life. That's the whole purpose of the punishment.

peanuthead

psni wrote: »

Sending me a PM with the details is down to you, but it won't change what I'll be telling you. If you think there's a very good reason for an appeal, then you need to discuss that with your solicitor, and he will advise further. You're far better off giving him cash for a one-off meeting just to put your mind at rest.

I can save you even that much by telling you, in my experience, it would want to be very good. A judge won't change his mind because it's inconveniencing your personal life. That's the whole purpose of the punishment.

While I agree with what you're saying, I don't think anything about this justice system is THAT black and white.

1. Sentences that are ridiculous are handed down every day of the week. Some too harsh, some too lenient.

2. In my (I admit) poor experience some, not all judges would not overturn a sentence because of pride, or because of the claim made by a previous poster that "It would make the papers" and not because of the severity of the issue

3. The OP is not looking for his conviction to be quashed, he is looking for a shorter sentence. It's no different to appealing a murder conviction (which also happens every day of the week). If a life sentence for murder can be reduced, why can't a 5year ban for dangerous driving?

4. About the point you made about him not getting his licence back because it inconveniences him - you say that that's the whole point of the conviction. Wrong. That SHOULD be the whole point of a sentence, but it's not. It's a well known fact that Irish courts are too soft in a lot of cases, and if you have a good enough sob story you can get sentences reduced or even thrown out.

I should point out before I'm cyber lynched, my experience comes from a genuine interest in Irish law and not because I spend my time inside courtrooms myself.

So OP, I think that if you want to ask your solicitor then go for it. But you have to be prepared for a 'no'. If you're worried about the cost, before paying for a solicitor, run your case by a free legal advisor and see what they say. Just google FLAC to see if there's somewhere near you to go and enquire.

FLAC is a free service, anyone can avail, you don't have to be on the dole or anything.

Good Luck and keep us posted!

jeckle

Sorry, maybe it’s just the way you worded your OP, but your casual description of the event being just a case of you ‘being in the wrong place at the wrong time’ & ‘your whole life being affected’ just doesn’t sit well with me, & I would be genuinely sceptical about you being allowed behind the wheel any time soon, in case you find yourself in a similar situation.

This sort of description would sound more realistic if it came from your victim IMO. They were certainly the one(s) who were in the wrong place at the wrong time & whose life was affected!

I’d suggest that if you do follow this up & get legal representation that both they & you come at it from a completely different angle altogether.

I can totally understand that your sentence is affecting your life, but ask yourself would you prefer the inconvenience a five year driving ban or to be a victim of serious bodily harm, which is something that your victim has to live with for the rest of their lives?

The good news is that if you had killed them you would have faced charges of manslaughter.

I hope everything works out for you.

dats_right

peanuthead wrote: »

If a life sentence for murder can be reduced...

It can't be reduced. The Judge has no discretion whatsoever and must impose a life sentence on an accused convicted of murder.

Now, the length of time actually served by the prisoner is another matter entirely and one which the Courts have absolutely no control, as the length of time served by a prisoner for any offence, including life, is at the sole discretion of the Minister for Justice. Incidentally, currently the average length of a life sentence equates to about 17 years up from about 11-12 years about a decade ago.

I agree with PSNI and others, there is no way such a lengthy ban resulted from "total accident wrong place at the wrong time sort of a thing". Unless, you pleaded guilty you were convicted by a jury, after either of which the Judge having heard the evidence he/she deemed that such a lengthy ban was warranted. If your offence was as you claim, in all likelihood, you would have been charged with 'careless driving' i.e. without due care and attention which is a much lesser offence. Whereas, dangerous driving is a much more serious offence; and one which the evidential burden is much harder to prove (think the something along the lines of the difference between manslaughter vis-a-vis murder).

OP, if you feel that the sentence was disproportionate or unduly harsh i.e. the Judge has erred on a point of law you can appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeal. You should talk to your solicitor in relation to same, but be warned that such an appeal is going to be very costly.

peanuthead

dats_right wrote: »

It can't be reduced. The Judge has no discretion whatsoever and must impose a life sentence on an accused convicted of murder.

Now, the length of time actually served by the prisoner is another matter entirely and one which the Courts have absolutely no control, as the length of time served by a prisoner for any offence, including life, is at the sole discretion of the Minister for Justice. Incidentally, currently the average length of a life sentence equates to about 17 years up from about 11-12 years about a decade ago.
.

Okay I stand corrected there so, thanks for that, I did say my knowledge was poor and in no way professional.

In my opinion however, it is wrong that any sentence or conviction should be reduced. If you do the crime, you do the time, and it sickens me to see that people leave prison earlier than they should.

If I was the victim of the OPs accident I'm sure that I would be livid at the thought of him considering applying for his licence back, but unfortunately we seem to live in a society that says "If you learn your lesson, we will reduce your sentence" What I mean is you hear of people originally being banned for drunk driving for, say 4 years and only having to 'serve' 2 of them years.

I once strolled into court on a day off and was appalled by what I witnessed. One guy who was caught drink driving while not insured and was currently serving a 4 year ban. Have a guess what the judge gave him as a sentence: Ready ...

A certain (I can't remember) number of hours 'community service' or whatever we call it here, because she felt bad about sending him to prison because he had children.

Almost immediately after that up comes a guy who was in court for no insurance for the second time. I know what you're thinking, a mandatory 4 year ban,right? Nope!!

A fine for 800 or so euro and a wrap on the knuckles telling him he has learned his lesson now.
Of course he agreed he had learned his lesson, but what's the lesson, that if he does it again he better make sure he has some kids first cause that way he can avoid a harsher punishment?

My point here is that there is ZERO consistency in our judicial system, and for that reason I think that although it may not be likely the OP gets his licence back, its certainly not impossible and may be worth pursuing from the right angle - for his benefit of course, not that I agree with it, but he didn't ask for my opinion.

di_cbar

Thanks for all your posts,

I will in time get on to my solicitor and see what he says but i the whole point was really trying to find someone who mite of had or knew someone with a similar experience, just really testing the water.

I'm not trying to make myself out to be some sort of saint or saying that it wasn't my fault the complete opposite it was my fault, and here's the run down of what happened and see does "the time fit the crime" - the accident happened on a blind corner which i came too fast into( yes i was speeding) and the "victim" was out walking on the road i panicked, hit the breaks and went straight on knocking the person down. Admitted fault at the seen. Made a full statement without my solicitor admitting full blame 1 hour after accident. Pleaded guilt in the district court then also in the circuit court where the victim also attended on my side telling the judge how it was a complete accident, and even the garda that arrived on the scene said it was probably down to lack of experience. At no point did i hide behind my solicitor and try to weasel out of it.

So i got €2.5k fine and 5 yrs off the road. Is this right? Don't even know myself because i don't no how or who can compare it to? All my solicitor kept telling me is that it was good because i didn't get jail ( but it was my first offense!!!!)?

peanuthead

di_cbar wrote: »

Thanks for all your posts,

I will in time get on to my solicitor and see what he says but i the whole point was really trying to find someone who mite of had or knew someone with a similar experience, just really testing the water.

I'm not trying to make myself out to be some sort of saint or saying that it wasn't my fault the complete opposite it was my fault, and here's the run down of what happened and see does "the time fit the crime" - the accident happened on a blind corner which i came too fast into( yes i was speeding) and the "victim" was out walking on the road i panicked, hit the breaks and went straight on knocking the person down. Admitted fault at the seen. Made a full statement without my solicitor admitting full blame 1 hour after accident. Pleaded guilt in the district court then also in the circuit court where the victim also attended on my side telling the judge how it was a complete accident, and even the garda that arrived on the scene said it was probably down to lack of experience. At no point did i hide behind my solicitor and try to weasel out of it.

So i got €2.5k fine and 5 yrs off the road. Is this right? Don't even know myself because i don't no how or who can compare it to? All my solicitor kept telling me is that it was good because i didn't get jail ( but it was my first offense!!!!)?

In the nicest possible way, yes the "time does fit the crime" you should never be speeding, especially not round a blind corner and if it happened at night that's even worse.

But I get where you're coming from, and I understand what you're trying to say when you say you were at the wrong place at the wrong time, but that is what the expect the unexpected malarkey is all about.

Hope it works out for the best for you.

Just out of curiosity and you may not want to say, but what injuries did the pedestrian sustain?

Del2005

di_cbar wrote: »

Thanks for all your posts,

I will in time get on to my solicitor and see what he says but i the whole point was really trying to find someone who mite of had or knew someone with a similar experience, just really testing the water.

I'm not trying to make myself out to be some sort of saint or saying that it wasn't my fault the complete opposite it was my fault, and here's the run down of what happened and see does "the time fit the crime" - the accident happened on a blind corner which i came too fast into( yes i was speeding) and the "victim" was out walking on the road i panicked, hit the breaks and went straight on knocking the person down. Admitted fault at the seen. Made a full statement without my solicitor admitting full blame 1 hour after accident. Pleaded guilt in the district court then also in the circuit court where the victim also attended on my side telling the judge how it was a complete accident, and even the garda that arrived on the scene said it was probably down to lack of experience. At no point did i hide behind my solicitor and try to weasel out of it.

So i got €2.5k fine and 5 yrs off the road. Is this right? Don't even know myself because i don't no how or who can compare it to? All my solicitor kept telling me is that it was good because i didn't get jail ( but it was my first offense!!!!)?

Don't forget that the government are trying to keep young males from speeding and injuring others on the roads. I've a feeling your being made an example of to try and slow others down.

It does seem a bit harsh when you admitted guilt. Maybe contact a different solicitor, who specialises in motoring cases, and ask for their opinion.

Reloc8

No point in commenting on whether you did indeed get treated leniently or not. Suffice to say though that most cases of this kind tried on indictment (whether you pleaded guilty or not) result in some aspect of custodial sentence - frequently full suspended on a first offence.

Its definitely worthwhile to talk to a solicitor about applying once a person has served out half of the relevant ban. In a strictly legal sense the ban is considered withdrawal of a privilege which should (in theory) be re-instated when a person is considered fit to drive. This of course varies from case to case, e.g. ban imposed arising from chronic alcoholism - prove absention from booze. A person acting for themselves will probably find it tricky to secure this consent. In the case of an accident arising from inexperienced rash driving its tough to show that the guilty party has changed their behaviour sufficiently to warrant early restoration.

In a practical sense, the single most important other matter is the view taken by the prosecutor. Without consent from this quarter its unlikely a re-instatement order will be made. The reason for applying is also quite important - e.g. really really need it for the job, just got pregnant are fairly solid in a general sense.

nuac

I note you are in Castlebar. The District Judge is Mary Devins. The Circuit COurt Judge is Judge Ray Groarke. Both highly professional and know their job.

You were dealt with in the Circuit Court - either on appeal from the Distrct Court or by indictment direct to the Circuit COurt...

It was a serious case, and I don't think you have much prospects in considering an appeal. "Wrong place wrong time" talk is self-delusion.

You may be able to apply on hardship grounds to get your licence back after you have been off the road over two and half years.

MrPudding

di_cbar wrote: »

Pleaded guilt in the district court then also in the circuit court where the victim also attended on my side telling the judge how it was a complete accident, and even the garda that arrived on the scene said it was probably down to lack of experience. At no point did i hide behind my solicitor and try to weasel out of it.

In fairness it was not an accident. The term accident implies that the cause of the crash was something outside of your control, in this case the cause was you driving beyond the limit of your skill. Saying that something was caused by a lack of experience does not put it in the realm of accident.

MrP

Reloc8

I don't think the facts of the case are the point. A person in this position should ask a solicitor to act in applying for the restoration. Where a conviction is imposed by the Circuit Court on appeal btw, the application for restoration starts in the District Court at first instance, for general info.

Ab roller plus

If I were you I would take the ban, considering the attitude of the gardai, courts and legislature to road traffic offences theses days and at least you didn't kill the person in question. If you had of killed him then you would be looking at a custodial sentence and a death on your conscience.

5 years is not that bad. I feel you made it easy for the gardai and the judge by admitting guilt immediately. If you hadn't then they may have accepted a guitly plea on a careless driving charge. By admitting guilt you gave yourself no chance at all. Did your solicitor not tell you what to expect if you pleaded guilty!! I would have told you €5,000.00 fine and a ban of at least 4 years and with a possibility of suspended sentence since its a first offence.

My advice get a bike or move to England or the north. Emmigrate or something. You can still drive in england and the north on your current Irish licence. If you are resident in England or the nroth then you can apply for the english licence. Do this immediately before your licence is endorsed as I'm guessing that would put them off granting a licence to you. Whatever you do, do not drive in Ireland no matter what or else you may well end up banned for life and will end up in prison for a few months on top of that.

Bottom line on restoration of the licence is that you can apply for it back in the District Court after 30 months but you would still have to serve 40 months mimimum. You will also need to consent of the Gardai - Superintent or Inspector for the distrcit of area where you were prosecuted or consent of your local Super or Inspector.

darrenobrien85

di_cbar wrote: »

Hi,
I'm just looking for someone, anyone to shed some light on my driving ban, I'm currently serving a 5 year ban for 'dangerous driving causing serious bodily harm', which was handed down to me in the circuit court. It was the result of a total accident wrong place at the wrong time sort of a thing. I'm not even a year into my sentence and its effecting my whole life, work especially.:(

I was just wondering could any one tell me am i wasting my time trying to apply for my licence back before my appeal time comes as far as i was told it's two thirds the time, so, out of 60 months i can apply in 40 (but i can't wait this long). Do i just kiss my job good bye or do can i appeal my sentence and what or my chances of actually getting it back now?

P.S. "I would ask my solicitor but after what him and the barrister charged me I'm afraid that they'd try and charge me just for the advice".:mad:

Anyone in the same situation or bin here and done this?

i am in the same situation as u and am woundering did you have any luck????