Reactions to the Vote

King of Kings

It's rare I feel national embarassment but on the RTE news there was a bunch of blueshirts singing "Ole, Ole, Ole" when the Lisbon Treaty was passed.....well I found it cringe-worthy...like it's a ****ing treaty..you didn't .clowns

I was almost as embarrased to be irish (not quite) as the time the late late show had that drivel "no one as irish as barack obama" song on and the throng of slack jawed yolkels in the audience clapping and foot stamping through it.


jaysus I thought we were back in the dark ages.

Rb

You didn't see Coir, Libertas and Sinn Fein's celebrations after Lisbon I I take it?

How about when their supporters were shouting abuse at people while they were being interviewed on the news/other programmes? Is that not more embarrassing, no?

Ole Ole Ole is cringeworthy, but at least they weren't acting like football hooligans verbally abusing their rivals.

Robbo

It would have been a bit more apt, although a lot less likely, if they were belting out the Ode To Joy...

King of Kings

Rb wrote: »

You didn't see Coir, Libertas and Sinn Fein's celebrations after Lisbon I I take it?

How about when their supporters were shouting abuse at people while they were being interviewed on the news/other programmes? Is that not more embarrassing, no?

i didn't see Coir at all in lisbon I, tbh....I don't recall them campaigning.
you should get your facts right.

I am no fan of Coir or the Shinners( I hate shin fein with a passion) and I'm neutral on Libertas.

and to imply that their wrongs somehow justify the killnaskully behaviour of those clowns the other day is silly.

Rb wrote: »

Ole Ole Ole is cringeworthy, but at least they weren't acting like football hooligans verbally abusing their rivals.

perhaps, but I'm not here to justify the behaviour of others cos they don't represent me.

Btw I was a no voter but no group appeared to represent me.
I am the polar opposite of our friend in the secret federalist thread.

bobblepuzzle

Does anyone else think this comment is stupid?!

http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:8e29ac56-31f7-41d2-8edb-a5d837c17eaa

Scofflaw

Is there a political point to this thread? Or would it live equally happily in AH?

moderately,
Scofflaw

K-9

King of Kings wrote: »

i didn't see Coir at all in lisbon I, tbh....I don't recall them campaigning.
you should get your facts right.

I am no fan of Coir or the Shinners( I hate shin fein with a passion) and I'm neutral on Libertas.

and to imply that their wrongs somehow justify the killnaskully behaviour of those clowns the other day is silly.



perhaps, but I'm not here to justify the behaviour of others cos they don't represent me.

Btw I was a no voter but no group appeared to represent me.
I am the polar opposite of our friend in the secret federalist thread.

I think he was referring to some of the No celebrations last year.

nullzero

That reminds me of hearing some English man on the radio circa 1996 at the height of Ritchie Kavanagh's chart exploits, taking offence to the song "Aon Foacail Eile";" He's saying fvck he is, it's not right".
The Irish language and Irish sir names are a complete mystery to the Brits it would seem. The likes of Richard Littlejohn etc might find that piece hilarious, but they are and always will be ignorant, so there's not much you can do to change that.

Wheely

I don't think there is a political point to this thread. Other than to vent some sour grapes maybe? Political sour grapes?

dlofnep

Why would it be stupid? It's just a blog entry. What's wrong with saying Tá?

Scofflaw

Broadened out the title a little.

moderately,
Scofflaw

MikeC101

Nothing to get too worked up over really.

Final word (for now) on the Irish referendum...

While in Dublin, I learnt that the Irish word for NO is NIL (which I guess is what they feared they'd get if they voted No), while the Irish for YES is TA, which presumably is what they say each time a new wedge of dosh arrives from Brussels!

A pretty inept attempt to use the Irish for "Yes", which he managed to get wrong, along with getting níl wrong as well.

It's a little funny how badly he used it more than anything.

cornbb

The sort of stuff published by certain parts of the British media (like Sky News and the Daily Fail) are pathetic at best and downright xenophobic at worst. Scratch that, actually, everything seems to have undertones of xenophobia. I'm looking forward to watch them rip themselves apart when they attempt a Lisbon "debate" of their own.

bobblepuzzle

dlofnep wrote: »

Why would it be stupid? It's just a blog entry. What's wrong with saying Tá?

Perhaps his ignorance of the fact that 'Tá' is pronounced taw and not ta :eek:

Furious-Dave

Ye I think Tesco has a special offer on sour grapes at the moment

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/atlarge/sour%20grapes2.jpg

P. Breathnach

Pringles^IRE wrote: »

Perhaps his ignorance of the fact that 'Tá' is pronounced taw and not ta :eek:

More like "thaw" really.

And it doesn't actually mean "yes" (a point that, I recognise, escapes a lot of Irish people as well).

Euro_Kraut

P. Breathnach wrote: »

And it doesn't actually mean "yes" (a point that, I recognise, escapes a lot of Irish people as well).

+ 1

Plus he didn't even use the fada. Why do some see these letters as optional extras?

wylo

in fairness to him he couldnt exactly put in the fada because it would kind of defeat the purpose of his joke.

edit:just reading peoples posts again, I presume ye get his joke?

prinz

King of Kings wrote: »

It's rare I feel national embarassment but on the RTE news there was a bunch of blueshirts singing "Ole, Ole, Ole" when the Lisbon Treaty was passed.....well I found it cringe-worthy...like it's a ****ing treaty..you didn't .clowns....

The irony. When you come out of the 1930's, they might come out of 1990.

dlofnep

Pringles^IRE wrote: »

Perhaps his ignorance of the fact that 'Tá' is pronounced taw and not ta :eek:

I'm aware of the prounounciation of Tá - But he probably wasn't aware of the purpose of the fada, or even how to place it over a vowel. It was just a joke made in good faith. Nothing to get upset about.

meglome

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm aware of the prounounciation of Tá - But he probably wasn't aware of the purpose of the fada, or even how to place it over a vowel. It was just a joke made in good faith. Nothing to get upset about.

All we need now is it to be funny in some way.

MikeC101

wylo wrote: »

in fairness to him he couldnt exactly put in the fada because it would kind of defeat the purpose of his joke.

edit:just reading peoples posts again, I presume ye get his joke?

I assumed it's a play on "ta" as in slang for thanks?

It just doesn't work all that well then the word doesn't really mean yes, and isn't pronounced correctly.

wylo

exactly , it just looks a little silly people getting in a hissy fit about the spelling of the word, when clearly it was intentional.

wylo

MikeC101 wrote: »

It just doesn't work all that well then the word doesn't really mean yes, and isn't pronounced correctly.

well yea thats true, dont get me wrong , its still a sh1t joke.

MikeC101

wylo wrote: »

well yea thats true, dont get me wrong , its still a sh1t joke.

That's the only issue I'd have with it too, really.

dlofnep

meglome wrote: »

All we need now is it to be funny in some way.

I'm not saying it's funny, just that it's not something to be getting upset about. Life is too short.

Scofflaw

Malta is apparently happy with us - presumably they didn't hear how Lisbon would crush small countries out of existence:

Malta has had cause to extend it thanks to Ireland on two occasions – once when its electorate voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, and again for yesterday’s vote in favour of the treaty.

When Irish voters rejected the EU’s hard-fought treaty in a referendum the first time around in 2008, a thank-you to Irish voters would have been in poor taste, considering the mood prevailing in Brussels at the time.

But following the ensuing negotiations, the initial Irish ‘no’ vote actually turned out to be something of a blessing in disguise for Malta.

As a result of wrangling by the Irish government after the first referendum results, not only will Malta still be granted an additional sixth seat in the European Parliament, but it will also keep hold of a permanent commissioner in Brussels, which had been at stake in the version of the treaty rejected by Irish voters.

Source

prinz

So much for Ganley's claim of cheering crowds welcoming the no vote and flowers arriving at embassies etc.

When Irish voters rejected the landmark treaty in June 2008, the EU, Malta included, issued a collective sigh of dismay

rumour

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/10/03/01003-20091003ARTFIG00499-traite-de-lisbonne-le-oui-l-emporterait-en-irlande-.php?mode=commentaires

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/10/03/01003-20091003ARTFIG00152-apres-le-vote-irlandais-la-menace-tcheque-.php?mode=commentaires

For those of you that are so dismissive of the English commentary here's some french commentary for you to mull over.

The spin doctors will have to work hard to get back in the heart of this lot!!

P. Breathnach

rumour wrote: »

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/10/03/01003-20091003ARTFIG00499-traite-de-lisbonne-le-oui-l-emporterait-en-irlande-.php?mode=commentaires

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/10/03/01003-20091003ARTFIG00152-apres-le-vote-irlandais-la-menace-tcheque-.php?mode=commentaires

For those of you that are so dismissive of the English commentary here's some french commentary for you to mull over.

The spin doctors will have to work hard to get back in the heart of this lot!!

The readership of Le Figaro? You can't get back into their hearts, because they are a heartless lot. Daily Mail types.

truthisfree

Interesting to see what our European neighbours had to say about the referendum

Irish Lisbon Vote Is 'A Cry for Help'

"There are still major differences between the big and small countries, and between the new and old members -- and it will take years, if not decades, before the new European Union is as close-knit as the old, smaller one."
Süddeutsche Zeitung

"The strong 'yes' vote may have been heartening, but it was also clouded by the fact that it was the result of a fear campaign. The Irish were persuaded by their politicians that a 'no' to the treaty could result in being kicked out of the EU -- something that naturally is not true. The EU would still function without Lisbon. It would just have been less efficient and the expansion process would have come to a halt."
Financial Times Deutschland

"The new treaty will never get over the blemish of how it came about. The people who said 'no' the first time, were either not asked a second time or were blackmailed with the threat of being marginalized in economically tough times."
Die Tageszeitung

Nowadays, worries about tax increases (in Ireland) are a joke in a situation where government debt is a tenth of the gross national product, unemployment will soon rise to 20 percent and the IT and financial services sectors that made the boom possible are either migrating or threatened with collapse."
Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung

A cry for help, well I guess that was what it must have seemed like to countries outside of here, was desperate enough anyway. I wonder how the Yes voters feel about seeing things like this written about the referendum?

Lame Lantern

Opinion pieces (the authors of which you did not name) from four newspapers on the continent are not an accurate (or at all legitimate) representation of the "European" view of Ireland in much the same way that anyone in Belgium reading a crazed John Waters attack on shoelaces should not assume Ireland is hostile to traditional footwear.

truthisfree

Lame Lantern wrote: »

Opinion pieces (the authors of which you did not name) from four newspapers on the continent are not an accurate (or at all legitimate) representation of the "European" view of Ireland in much the same way that anyone in Belgium reading a crazed John Waters attack on shoelaces should not assume Ireland is hostile to traditional footwear.

Speigel is one of the most respected newspapers in the world with an international circulation, hardly something to be taken as not being a "legitimate" source of European opinion?

seamus

It would look exactly the same to an observer looking in if you cherry-picked appropriate articles from Irish-based newspapers which supported the view.

The opening article shows the writer's biase in this regard:

The European Union has taken another step toward the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty after the Irish backed it in a second referendum on Friday. While most German commentators welcome the decisive "yes" vote, some also voice regrets that a campaign of fear was necessary to produce the desired result.

Interesting that a far-right German magazine admits that "most" German commentators are positive and then proceeds to only pick choice nagative quotes from far-left and fringe newpapers to try and get its own point across.

If you look back at its previous articles on Lisbon, you'll see that rather than actually realising the incorrectness of the various claims made, it subtley repeats them and then leaves them unanswered. Nice objective journalism there.

Any chance of a list of articles from popular national newspapers in Europe?

Scofflaw

truthisfree wrote: »

Interesting to see what our European neighbours had to say about the referendum

Irish Lisbon Vote Is 'A Cry for Help'

"There are still major differences between the big and small countries, and between the new and old members -- and it will take years, if not decades, before the new European Union is as close-knit as the old, smaller one."
Süddeutsche Zeitung

"The strong 'yes' vote may have been heartening, but it was also clouded by the fact that it was the result of a fear campaign. The Irish were persuaded by their politicians that a 'no' to the treaty could result in being kicked out of the EU -- something that naturally is not true. The EU would still function without Lisbon. It would just have been less efficient and the expansion process would have come to a halt."
Financial Times Deutschland

"The new treaty will never get over the blemish of how it came about. The people who said 'no' the first time, were either not asked a second time or were blackmailed with the threat of being marginalized in economically tough times."
Die Tageszeitung

Nowadays, worries about tax increases (in Ireland) are a joke in a situation where government debt is a tenth of the gross national product, unemployment will soon rise to 20 percent and the IT and financial services sectors that made the boom possible are either migrating or threatened with collapse."
Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung

A cry for help, well I guess that was what it must have seemed like to countries outside of here, was desperate enough anyway. I wonder how the Yes voters feel about seeing things like this written about the referendum?

Let's add in some more bits from the same article:

The center-left Süddeutsche Zeitung writes:

"The Irish 'yes' to the Lisbon Treaty … prevents the European Union from collapse and from falling into political irrelevance. And it provides the Europeans with the opportunity to have a lasting influence in the world. … The national governments must now show if they have the courage and skill to position Europe in the global power game."

The Financial Times Deutschland writes:

"The fact that an overwhelming majority of Irish voters supported the Lisbon Treaty has a lot to do with the financial crisis. Ireland has been harder hit than any other country in the EU. And belonging to an EU that was stabilizing and showed solidarity seemed much more attractive now than when the first referendum was held."

We probably ought to note that Der Spiegel has been relatively hostile to Lisbon throughout.

cordially,
Scofflaw

truthisfree

seamus wrote: »

It would look exactly the same to an observer looking in if you cherry-picked appropriate articles from Irish-based newspapers which supported the view.

The opening article shows the writer's biase in this regard:
Interesting that a far-right German magazine admits that "most" German commentators are positive and then proceeds to only pick choice nagative quotes from far-left and fringe newpapers to try and get its own point across.

If you look back at its previous articles on Lisbon, you'll see that rather than actually realising the incorrectness of the various claims made, it subtley repeats them and then leaves them unanswered. Nice objective journalism there.

Any chance of a list of articles from popular national newspapers in Europe?

The "Financial Times" is a fringe newspaper???

Scofflaw

Also, on another note, there's a thread - for exactly this topic - about 5 threads down.

moderately,
Scofflaw

seamus

truthisfree wrote: »

The "Financial Times" is a fringe newspaper???

In Germany it is. Circulation of just over 100,000 in a country of 80 million. By comparison, your posts are more popular than that newspaper.

Edit: Financial Times Deutschland has no affiliation with the British paper of the same name.

truthisfree

seamus wrote: »

In Germany it is. Circulation of just over 100,000 in a country of 80 million. By comparison, your posts are more popular than that newspaper.

Spiegel Online is the most popular online resource for news in Germany and has a print circulation of ober a million copies!

Do you not think that Ireland looks like it is picking up the begging bowl again as we face into the real recession?

Scofflaw

truthisfree wrote: »

Spiegel Online is the most popular online resource for news in Germany and has a print circulation of ober a million copies!

A million copies in the whole of Europe - to put that in context, that's about 6 times the circulation of the Irish Independent (in a market-place 125 times the size).

truthisfree wrote: »

Do you not think that Ireland looks like it is picking up the begging bowl again as we face into the real recession?

Are you surprised that certain sections of the German press might feel that way? There are presumably a number of Germans who feel about Ireland as a number of people in Ireland feel about overseas aid - "welfare we can't afford", "charity begins at home", and so on.

I wish I were surprised that No proponents could see the irony in highlighting this attitude in order to try to make out that people across Europe are supportive of a No position. The Germans don't necessarily like the fact that a country that - perhaps more than any other - has benefited from EU money (German money), and which has introduced instabilities to their financial system by its own recklessness, also votes on major treaties affecting them on the basis, apparently, of which side has the bigger bogeymen.

cordially,
Scofflaw

truthisfree

Scofflaw wrote: »

A million copies in the whole of Europe - to put that in context, that's about 6 times the circulation of the Irish Independent (in a market-place 125 times the size).



Are you surprised that certain sections of the German press might feel that way? There are presumably a number of Germans who feel about Ireland as a number of people in Ireland feel about overseas aid - "welfare we can't afford", "charity begins at home", and so on.

I wish I were surprised that No proponents could see the irony in highlighting this attitude in order to try to make out that people across Europe are supportive of a No position. The Germans don't necessarily like the fact that a country that - perhaps more than any other - has benefited from EU money (German money), and which has introduced instabilities to their financial system by its own recklessness, also votes on major treaties affecting them on the basis, apparently, of which side has the bigger bogeymen.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I am not at all surprised that they would feel this way and I am sure that France and the Uk are not far behind. I am not so sure that there will be much money coming from the EU, at least not as much as we will be paying into it. There are countries that need it far more than we do (right now).
I feel that a whole lot of people who wrongly voted for this treaty on the basis that the EU would bail us out are going to be disappointed. When they discover this and the recession deepens, and deepen it will, then they will feel cheated and frustrated by the implied "promises" of economic recovery and jobs.

These people are not the left wing loony type, they are staunch middle class and they will take to the streets in hundreds of thousands as they did in the late 70's and 80's.

I think the continual revelations about corruption, outrageous expense accounts, and finally the financial meltdown with the scare tactics of the referendum, and not to forget we have the conclusive Mahon tribunal report to be published yet, as well as more abuse revelations about the Church. All adds up to very difficult and politically unstable time in the 12 months ahead.

Scofflaw

truthisfree wrote: »

I am not at all surprised that they would feel this way and I am sure that France and the Uk are not far behind. I am not so sure that there will be much money coming from the EU, at least not as much as we will be paying into it. There are countries that need it far more than we do (right now).
I feel that a whole lot of people who wrongly voted for this treaty on the basis that the EU would bail us out are going to be disappointed. When they discover this and the recession deepens, and deepen it will, then they will feel cheated and frustrated by the implied "promises" of economic recovery and jobs.

These people are not the left wing loony type, they are staunch middle class and they will take to the streets in hundreds of thousands as they did in the late 70's and 80's.

I think the continual revelations about corruption, outrageous expense accounts, and finally the financial meltdown with the scare tactics of the referendum, and not to forget we have the conclusive Mahon tribunal report to be published yet, as well as more abuse revelations about the Church. All adds up to very difficult and politically unstable time in the 12 months ahead.

Indeed it does - but at least one area of instability has been cleared up.

cordially,
Scofflaw

King of Kings

prinz wrote: »

The irony. When you come out of the 1930's, they might come out of 1990.

LOL
I must say I liked your retort.

FG will always be the blueshirts to me.