Does anybody regret the Ireland ratifying the Nice treaty?

marco_polo

Is there anybody here who feels that Ireland should never have ratified the Nice treaty?

This treaty was also subject to a second referendum and like this time around the treaty did not change between the intervening referendums. The grounds for holding the second referendum on that occasion were arguably even less than for the Lisbon Treaty judging by the voter analysis. The two main grounds for a re run put forward on that occasion was that the electorate were ill-informed and the concerns about neutrality were addressed by the Seville Declaration.

The only additional document secured for the running of the second Nice referendum declaration was the non legally binding Seville declaration.

The main reasons for voting no were as follows:

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/flash/fl108_en.pdf
Table 7 Reasons for voting 'no' in the Nice referendum (pg 45)

Lack of information 39%
Loss of sovereignty/independence 16%
Neutrality and military issues 12%
Bad idea in general 7%
Influence of political party, politician, TV debate 6%
Would create refugee problems 3%
Abortion issue 1%
Advice of family or friends 1%
Other 2%
Don't know 13

Allowing for the fact that we ran our own country into the ground a few years later, it didn't work out so bad for Ireland at all really, did it?

COUCH WARRIOR

marco_polo wrote: »

The grounds for holding the second referendum on that occasion were arguably even less than for the Lisbon Treaty judging by the voter analysis. The two main grounds for a re run put forward on that occasion was that the electorate were ill-informed and the concerns about neutrality were addressed by the Seville Declaration.

The outcome justifies the referendum, the will of the people had changed and was reflected in the yes vote. Nothing else matters.

Rb

Wow, had never seen that entire breakdown, it's as though someone got the reasons for people voting against Lisbon and changed the heading.

K-9

Very similar to Lisbon 1.

Immigration was the main change, which had far more to do with FF than the EU, but FF are masters at blaming the EU for everything!

Mrmoe

we will not know if we regret for many a year yet. It is too soon to judge, I hoep we don't come to regret it.

meglome

Mrmoe wrote: »

we will not know if we regret for many a year yet. It is too soon to judge, I hoep we don't come to regret it.

It's been eight and a half years, how long should we wait?

passive

Mrmoe wrote: »

we will not know if we regret for many a year yet. It is too soon to judge, I hoep we don't come to regret it.

It's already been many a year...

(Edit: Dammit Meglome!)

Mrmoe

meglome wrote: »

It's been eight and a half years, how long should we wait?

passive wrote: »

It's already been many a year...

(Edit: Dammit Meglome!)

I think treaties like this can only ever be looked back and judged through an extended period of time as in several decades. I would consider 8.5 years a short to medium term time frame.

meglome

Also reminds me of this classic.

http://www.sinnfein.org/releases/01/nicemanifesto.html

Introduction

On June 7th the people of the 26 Counties will be asked to vote on the Treaty of Nice - the fifth referendum on the European Union and, if passed, tying the Irish people, our political institutions and our economy closer to an EU superstate.

Sinn Fein believes that this treaty is NOT in Ireland's best interests. It will:

* undermine our sovereignty
* bring us closer into a European Army and NATO and
* relegate us to the second division of a two-tier European Union.

Since the Single European Act in 1987 the clear direction of EU development has been towards the creation of a giant state. More and more democratic control has been taken away from us in relation to both domestic and international affairs. The EU Commission and the EU Council of Ministers have become more powerful. The Nice Treaty increases that power and removes yet more democratic control from the hands of elected representatives in the Dáil. The Treaty of Nice is not about enlargement. It is about further centralising the EU, placing greater power in the hands of the larger states and allowing them to create a two-tier EU.

Séard is brí le flaitheas ná cearta daoine a aithint seachas cumhacht a bhronnadh ar feidhmeannaigh neamhtofa..

We want to see Europe defending our democratic rights, not eroding them.

Sinn Fein stands for democracy, accountability and equality within Europe. Sinn Fein are asking you to Vote NO.

And a several more familiar classics in the link.

meglome

Mrmoe wrote: »

I think treaties like this can only ever be looked back and judged through an extended period of time as in several decades. I would consider 8.5 years a short to medium term time frame.

But the EU isn't something that stays still, it evolves, it changes with the times and the circumstances, new members join.

Anyway what bad things have happened since we joined the EU in 1973? As far I can tell the same things were being said about it then by the same No campaign groups.