Prepare for battle!

Biggins

I was surprised to read that the Irish unions have amassed cash reserves of around €50,000,000. According to the news here, they are readying themselves for one mother of a battle with the Fianna Fail lead government.
As Siptu's Jack O'Connor declared, the "gloves are off" so now with the Lisbon issue out of the way, its time to man the battleships! There is coming one hell period of unrest I suspect!

Amhran Nua

Thats not going to stretch very far over, what was the last claim, 600,000 workers? Then again it doesn't need to, they only have to strategically hit certain areas.

I don't know what they hope to gain from this to be honest. Tax rises will hit union members too, unless they are trying to strongarm the government into raising the corporation tax, in which case none of us will have any jobs, and the private/public sector balance of payments will become abundantly clear.

Gah. If they try to force a confrontation they will ruin us all.

Daftendirekt

What in hell are these people hoping to achieve?

Do they actually realise what kind of a situation we're in?

Biggins

Daftendirekt wrote: »

What in hell are these people hoping to achieve?
Do they actually realise what kind of a situation we're in?

What does that matter to them!

turgon

One of the great ironys of politics is that the union movement - determined to fend for the underprivilaged worker against the capatalistic motives of the employers - is the most greediest group around.

John O'Donoghue and TD's greed was a disgrace yet will not run us into the ground. The unions greed will.

BroomBurner

I like unions. I like the purpose behind unions. I understand their need.

However, when unions have weekend-long "meetings" with free bars paid for out of subscriptions, then I hate both the individuals getting away with it, and the members for not taking them to task.

mikemac

If tens of thousands of staff go on strike, they'll be needing those reserves for strike pay. Especially if it lasts for weeks

FlutterinBantam

heh heh Don't worry about that mate, there will be no all out strikes.

days of disruption and the like , but all out, noooooooooo way Jose;)

NewDubliner

mikemac wrote: »

If tens of thousands of staff go on strike, they'll be needing those reserves for strike pay. Especially if it lasts for weeks

What'll the government do? Send in the army?

Sand

If tens of thousands of staff go on strike, they'll be needing those reserves for strike pay. Especially if it lasts for weeks

Well, 50 million wont go too far - the government is borrowing 71 million every single day to pay for the public sector. Might be illuminating for the unions to try pay for it for a few hours.

heh heh Don't worry about that mate, there will be no all out strikes.

days of disruption and the like , but all out, noooooooooo way Jose

Agreed - the unions will showboat for the masses, and demand some sort of payoff for themselves (again, when I say unions, i mean the organisations, not their members). But when push comes to shove theyll fold. Its just a question of a government shoving.

Villain

TBH I think the Government should just call the IMF in because these Unions are living in a fantasy land, they seem to think the Country should continue to borrow and borrow to pay for the Public Sector Pay bill.

I'd like to see the IMF come in and cut all Public salaries over €45k by 30% and Salaries between €30 and €45k by 15%, and if they don't want to accept it there are over 400,000 people looking for jobs that would love to these Public sectors jobs at the reduced rate so either take the pay cut or go look for another job.

I get the fact we have pumped billions into the banks etc etc but we simply can't afford the Public Pay sector bill.

NewDubliner

Villain wrote: »

I'd like to see the IMF come in and....

Do you think they'd just do the stuff you'd like them to do?

Pride Fighter

The Unions should strike against this incompetent, corrupt government. The quote stating that public sector workers being a fifth better off is to a certain extenet true. However the pay does not take into account executive pay, bonuses and golden handshakes. If these figures were taken into account it would bump up private sector pay by at least double. What most reasoned public sector workers would want is a tax on wealth so the creeps earning millions and paying zero tax get the hit. Only after that can the public sector wage bill go down. The hundreds of million if not 1 billion plus in cash that could be earned from taxing the super-rich could then be used to cut public sector pay by 5% instead of the 10-15% it will have to be cut now. It makes sense economically to not cut the public sector wage bill or if there is cuts to be made keep them as low as possible. Public sector and lower paid workers keep the economy ticking by buying everyday goods and services, the higher paid spend nothing in the real economy.

Villain

Of course not but these Unions are living in another world and FF don't have the balls stand up to them

turgon

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It makes sense economically to not cut the public sector wage bill.

Explain that one for us all please.

Daftendirekt

@ Biggins,

OT here, sorry, but just a quick question. What's the United People thing in your sig about? New political party or something?

Biggins

Daftendirekt wrote: »

@ Biggins,

OT here, sorry, but just a quick question. What's the United People thing in your sig about? New political party or something?

As I've seen not one organisation in Ireland that is build around total unquestionable transparency, totally accountability and honesty, I am so pissed off that I am in the process of starting up one myself.

The first rule being that if your in the role of being a TD for serving the public then welcome to the Dail - otherwise if one just sees being a TD as a career, your not god-damn wanted!
Being elected to a role of representing your countrymen (and women) is for me par with serving a honourable vocation.
It seems to me that many currently in the Dail have forgotten that single important point alone!

While currently working on what will hopefully be an alternative better way, with more openness and honesty, I'm currently drawing up plans, policies and ideas for the future under a certain section on the Unitedpeople.ie web site.
The site can be accessed in the meanwhile by clicking on the signature logo to view the rest of the new site.

Pride Fighter

turgon wrote: »

Explain that one for us all please.

I did in the sentence after if you would care to read it.

dan_d

I may be reading too much into that article linked in the OP's post, but it's almost as if they knew the good times couldn't last and they'd need the funds in the future when wages started to drop.........
The irony!

Biggins

http://e-edition.metroireland.ie/2009/10/05/

paddyduc

Here's my 2cents on this
1 Maybe it's time we had a good look at union wages and expences with a view to cutting union fees.

2 All salaries over 50k should be reviewed leaving the hard working people on the coalface out of it.

Biggins

paddyduc wrote: »

...All salaries over 50k should be reviewed leaving the hard working people on the coalface out of it.

Coalface?

This can be partly done anyway by adjusting/creating new tax levels at around that monetary level anyway.

hallelujajordan

paddyduc wrote: »

Here's my 2cents on this
1 Maybe it's time we had a good look at union wages and expences with a view to cutting union fees.

Here, here . . I am not a member of a union and never have been. However I am not seeing any support anywhere for the stuff the unions are currently coming out with. At the weekend, I had dinner with friends who are both public sector workers, who have been hit really hard by last years budget cuts, (more because of cancelled overtime, which was in itself a scam than because of the pension levy) but both of them said that if there was a strike they would break the picket line. I don't believe that there are many in the HSE for example that would really believe that the government ought to give them a 3.5% pay increase regardless of the public finances and I don't believe that the majority of teachers are not willing to do out of hours parent-teacher meetings. The unions exist for no other reason than to represent the people. When they stop representing the people and begin to follow their own agenda they lose any authority they had.

Incidentally, I challenged my friends to stop paying their union fees if they didn't agree with what the union was doing.

2 All salaries over 50k should be reviewed leaving the hard working people on the coalface out of it.

The notion of them and us (them being the frontline workers shouldering the burden, us being the fat cats in middle managed) just simply isn't backed up by the data when you look at the public service. The most recent ESRI data shows that the biggest salary differential between public and private sector is in the lower paid. We pay our nurses more than most other Western European states and we give our public sector a pension way in excess of anything one can get in the private sector. . (It galls me that they are complaining about having to pay just a fraction towards the cost of this). The scale if the deficit is such that the government will have to implement wage cuts right across the board if they are to save the public finances ..

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Tipp Man

paddyduc wrote: »

Here's my 2cents on this
1 Maybe it's time we had a good look at union wages and expences with a view to cutting union fees.

2 All salaries over 50k should be reviewed leaving the hard working people on the coalface out of it.

1. without a shadow of doubt, there is so much irony in all the union leaders being on boards of FAS central bank etc earning big pay cheques will calling for taxes on the "rich"

2.I have to disagree with you completly here, there seems to be this preception that if your a public servant you can't earn more than 50k and if you do then your overpaid, and quite often it is the public sector workers as opposed to the private sector who are saying this. Truth is that there are people in the public service who are worth what they earn more than 50k and deserve to be well paid and as a private sector worker I have no problem with some people in the public sector being well paid if they are doing a good job, in fact its a necessity. I think this idea stems from the unions were they are constantly preaching about taxing the "rich". So i can defo see a case for having some people in public sector earning good money, however I do think that the vast majority of the public sector are overpaid

irish_bob

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Thats not going to stretch very far over, what was the last claim, 600,000 workers? Then again it doesn't need to, they only have to strategically hit certain areas.

I don't know what they hope to gain from this to be honest. Tax rises will hit union members too, unless they are trying to strongarm the government into raising the corporation tax, in which case none of us will have any jobs, and the private/public sector balance of payments will become abundantly clear.

Gah. If they try to force a confrontation they will ruin us all.

o,connor being the extreme left marxist that he is , has had to suffer through almost twenty years of prosperity and smooth capitalism since the fall of the berlin wall , he is damned if he is going to miss his last chance to strike a blow for socilism , for him , this is about far more than nurses and garda pay , he is in a much wider idealogical war , the guy is a loon of the highest order and a dangerous influence to many

irish_bob

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Here, here . . I am not a member of a union and never have been. However I am not seeing any support anywhere for the stuff the unions are currently coming out with. At the weekend, I had dinner with friends who are both public sector workers, who have been hit really hard by last years budget cuts, (more because of cancelled overtime, which was in itself a scam than because of the pension levy) but both of them said that if there was a strike they would break the picket line. I don't believe that there are many in the HSE for example that would really believe that the government ought to give them a 3.5% pay increase regardless of the public finances and I don't believe that the majority of teachers are not willing to do out of hours parent-teacher meetings. The unions exist for no other reason than to represent the people. When they stop representing the people and begin to follow their own agenda they lose any authority they had.

Incidentally, I challenged my friends to stop paying their union fees if they didn't agree with what the union was doing.



The notion of them and us (them being the frontline workers shouldering the burden, us being the fat cats in middle managed) just simply isn't backed up by the data when you look at the public service. The most recent ESRI data shows that the biggest salary differential between public and private sector is in the lower paid. We pay our nurses more than most other Western European states and we give our public sector a pension way in excess of anything one can get in the private sector. . (It galls me that they are complaining about having to pay just a fraction towards the cost of this). The scale if the deficit is such that the government will have to implement wage cuts right across the board if they are to save the public finances ..

excellent post and i fully agree that thier can be no sacred cows when it comes to pay cuts , nurses in this country are extremley well paid and even thiough they are the most sacred of all sacred cows , thier can be nowhere to hide in the present climate

thebman

Its all showboating IMO. Unions don't give a crap about their members, just want to be seen to be upset.

They'll go blazing, no compromise, saluting each other into negotiations with government having refused to do so for a week or two and come out with another bank holiday or something and paycuts for the workers.

Pay cuts are necessary and these Union heads aren't as hard nosed as they want everyone to think they are. They will give in because there is no alternative, if there was the government would use it because they are also spineless. You could say unions will give in because spineless people understand each other IMO (talking about heads of unions, not the members of trade unions just to be clear).