What happens when/if the guarantees on the Lisbon Treaty fail to be ratified?

PaulieD

What happens if the guarantees protocol is defeated? Do we retract ratification of Lisbon? Or do our leaders say "ah well" and ratify the treaty anyway? We were told that we must vote again as our government obtained "guarantees" from Brussels. If they are defeated, on that basis, then surely the result is null and void.

I am interested in legal interpretation on this.

PaulieD

bleg wrote: »

You should be happy, the more influence Europe has over Ireland the better. I'd rather to have Brussels running the country than that useless shower of clowns in the Dail.

Insane logic. Have Fianna Fail sapped the will of the Irish people to govern themselves?

Turtwig

Emm,

These were legally guaranteed..:)

namloc1980

PaulieD wrote: »

What happens if the guarantees protocol is defeated? Do we retract ratification of Lisbon? Or do our leaders say "ah well" and ratify the treaty anyway? We were told that we must vote again as our government obtained "guarantees" from Brussels. If they are defeated, on that basis, then surely the result is null and void.

I am interested in legal interpretation on this.

Guarantees wrote:

(iii) the Decision is legally binding and will take effect on the date of entry into force of the Treaty of Lisbon;

There ya go.

Sully

Malty_T wrote: »

Emm,

These were legally guaranteed..:)

They need to be included in the next treaty before they become binding. The OP is asking what if, in the unlikely event, this backfires. Interesting question.

prinz

What are you talking about ... the guarantees are inextricably linked to Lisbon. If Lisbon isn't ratified then no guarantees, why would we need them?
If Lisbon is ratified then the guarantees are well guaranteed.

namloc1980

Sully wrote: »

They need to be included in the next treaty before they become binding. The OP is asking what if, in the unlikely event, this backfires. Interesting question.

That is not the case at all....see my previous post with a direct reference to the text of the Guarantees.

prinz

Sully wrote: »

They need to be included in the next treaty before they become binding..

No, they're legally binding as soon as Lisbon is ratified. Including them in the next Treaty as a protocol is just tidying up messy paperwork. They will already be legally binding before that though.

Turtwig

Sully wrote: »

They need to be included in the next treaty before they become binding. The OP is asking what if, in the unlikely event, this backfires. Interesting question.

What next treaty? They are guaranteed when this treaty comes into effect.

Edit : Dam you Prinz and Namloc

cyberwit

PaulieD wrote: »

What happens if the guarantees protocol is defeated? Do we retract ratification of Lisbon? Or do our leaders say "ah well" and ratify the treaty anyway? We were told that we must vote again as our government obtained "guarantees" from Brussels. If they are defeated, on that basis, then surely the result is null and void.

I am interested in legal interpretation on this.

I think your question is slightly wrong firstly the legally binding guarantees are not in the treaty they are simply guarantees that state the lisbon treaty does not affect our stance of neutrality, abortation and taxiation, and we will keep our commissioner they will be lodged with the UN and put in as a future protocol in a future treaty e.g. maybe when croatia or iceland joins. According to the yes side the EU has never gone back on any guarantees given to a member state. Now if the lisbon treaty is not ratified by all member states (poland, czech republic) then it cant come into force and the nice treaty still applys then the guarantees can be honoured but on a treaty that does not exsist.

That is how i view the situtation i am not political or know much about law just a student so i could be wrong

Sully

Jesus, my bad. I thought, while legally binding, it came into full force under the next treaty as a protocol.

Mario007

Sully wrote: »

They need to be included in the next treaty before they become binding. The OP is asking what if, in the unlikely event, this backfires. Interesting question.

not really since the guarantees are guaranteeing something thats not in the lisbon treaty at all. so even if they would not be legally binding nothing would happen, because lisbon won't affect any of the things in the guarantees.

Scofflaw

Sully wrote: »

Jesus, my bad. I thought, while legally binding, it came into full force under the next treaty as a protocol.

They're legally binding, and come into force on ratification of Lisbon. However, they will not have equivalent legal force to the EU treaties until they are attached to the treaties as Protocols in the next accession treaty.

As pointed out, and as has been stated in various legal analyses, a conflict between the guarantees and the treaties would, until they become protocols, go in favour of the treaties - but, as stated in the same legal analyses, there isn't a conflict between them.

cordially,
Scofflaw