So when will we see a survey done on why people voted yes...

hatrickpatrick · 03-10-2009 4:43pm #1

...followed by a clarification of all the lies spread by the yes side and another referendum?

I mean hey, that's how democracy works in this country, right?

Morzadec · 03-10-2009 4:45pm

True there should be and if it turns out that we voted yes for reasons that were completely misinformed or because we 'didn't know what it was about' then serious questions will have to be asked.

This, however, is not the case I feel. People were far better informed this time round.

prinz · 03-10-2009 4:46pm

Why don't you kick it off yourself, or lobby your TD to bring it up in the Dáil.....

ei.sdraob · 03-10-2009 4:47pm

we can have one here? would make for a good thread...

Furious-Dave · 03-10-2009 4:47pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

...followed by a clarification of all the lies spread by the yes side and another referendum?

I mean hey, that's how democracy works in this country, right?

Ah who cares really. We got our Yes and that's all that matters!

Red Sleeping Beauty · 03-10-2009 4:47pm

I'm not sure when there'll be a poll or survey or whatever but I expect the same level of study into the reasons for voting no and yes. I think Fine Gael did an exit poll yesterday but not sure if it was on anything other than did you vote yes or no.

marco_polo · 03-10-2009 5:00pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

...followed by a clarification of all the lies spread by the yes side and another referendum?

I mean hey, that's how democracy works in this country, right?

No it isn't actually.

On the other question there will probably be a Eurabarometer poll in a few weeks / months as there always is. If on the grounds of that people feel the urge to elect a government at the next election, that will hold another referendum, then I will be more than happy to give Europe a Yes vote once again*.

* And I won't whinge about it either

rumour · 03-10-2009 5:03pm

Furious-Dave wrote: »

Ah who cares really. We got our Yes and that's all that matters!

Your antics will not be lost on our european neighbours

DeVore · 03-10-2009 5:04pm

You go get assurances that the treaty means we will have abortion, 1.84 minimum wage and have to join Nato and I'd be happy to have a rerun... cos to be fair, thats what the Yes side did after the last time...

DeV.

hatrickpatrick · 03-10-2009 9:07pm

DeVore wrote: »

You go get assurances that the treaty means we will have abortion, 1.84 minimum wage and have to join Nato and I'd be happy to have a rerun... cos to be fair, thats what the Yes side did after the last time...

DeV.

And what if I got assurances instead that Lisbon won't bring more jobs into the country, and that we wouldn't be kicked out of the EU or end up in a two tiered Europe, that the economy wouldn't have completely crashed without Lisbon? I mean that's the sort of disinformation and scaremongering lies that people voted on the back of this time...

rumour · 03-10-2009 9:48pm

DeVore wrote: »

You go get assurances that the treaty means we will have abortion, 1.84 minimum wage and have to join Nato and I'd be happy to have a rerun... cos to be fair, thats what the Yes side did after the last time...

DeV.

Fine just agree to the referendum first.

bleg · 03-10-2009 9:51pm

Want my answer?

I am a supporter of a Federal Europe and Lisbon paves the way to that.

Muhahahahahahahahaha

prinz · 03-10-2009 9:53pm

rumour wrote: »

Fine just agree to the referendum first.

Eh no. Guarantees first, then referendum. Just like this time.

Mario007 · 03-10-2009 10:18pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And what if I got assurances instead that Lisbon won't bring more jobs into the country, and that we wouldn't be kicked out of the EU or end up in a two tiered Europe, that the economy wouldn't have completely crashed without Lisbon? I mean that's the sort of disinformation and scaremongering lies that people voted on the back of this time...

yes if you managed to get those guarantees and if it turned out that these were the reasons why people voted yes, then i'd welcome a second referendum.

tbh i'd welcome another referendum next year anyway, we'll have our annual irish referendum and see which side is more clever with the lies they put out there. so far no is winning by far:D

rumour · 03-10-2009 11:07pm

prinz wrote: »

Eh no. Guarantees first, then referendum. Just like this time.

?????? Check facts...

nullzero · 03-10-2009 11:08pm

It wont happen when the "man" has got what he wants.
End of.
Thats democracy in action, EU style.

Mario007 · 03-10-2009 11:18pm

nullzero wrote: »

It wont happen when the "man" has got what he wants.
End of.
Thats democracy in action, EU style.

yes i also hate that faceless individual who is controlling the eu and everyone around and making us do whatever he wants, man. we should take him down! power to the people, man!!!

ei.sdraob · 03-10-2009 11:20pm

Mario007 wrote: »

yes i also hate that faceless individual who is controlling the eu and everyone around and making us do whatever he wants, man. we should take him down! power to the people, man!!!

who President Václav Klaus?

nullzero · 03-10-2009 11:23pm

Mario007 wrote: »

yes i also hate that faceless individual who is controlling the eu and everyone around and making us do whatever he wants, man. we should take him down! power to the people, man!!!

Funny.
Thanks for taking my post out of context.

Mario007 · 03-10-2009 11:29pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

who President Václav Klaus?

haha ya, i don't like him either too much:D thats what happens when an economist is trying to read an international treaty and accepts an offer for help and interpretation from a shady business from ireland with a british passport

Mario007 · 03-10-2009 11:32pm

nullzero wrote: »

Funny.
Thanks for taking my post out of context.

i didn't i just pointed out that it sounds like a big conspiracy theory to me. the eu isn't 'them', it's 'us'. people across europe should learn that. their head of states formulate the policy of the eu and the way in which it shall go forward, and all is done by consensus, which is something extraordinary!

btw passing lisbon was a government concern, it was in the programme for government, it was something they got their mandate for.... so its not the evil eu making us do things...

namloc1980 · 03-10-2009 11:35pm

Mario007 wrote: »

i didn't i just pointed out that it sounds like a big conspiracy theory to me. the eu isn't 'them', it's 'us'. people across europe should learn that. their head of states formulate the policy of the eu and the way in which it shall go forward, and all is done by consensus, which is something extraordinary!

btw passing lisbon was a government concern, it was in the programme for government, it was something they got their mandate for.... so its not the evil eu making us do things...

And wait until Emperor Blair takes control :eek::pac:

nullzero · 03-10-2009 11:36pm

Mario007 wrote: »

i didn't i just pointed out that it sounds like a big conspiracy theory to me. the eu isn't 'them', it's 'us'. people across europe should learn that. their head of states formulate the policy of the eu and the way in which it shall go forward, and all is done by consensus, which is something extraordinary!

btw passing lisbon was a government concern, it was in the programme for government, it was something they got their mandate for.... so its not the evil eu making us do things...

Well how it sounded to you doesn't capture what I actually meant.
It was a simple smart ass comment, not a suggestion of conspiracy or anything else you might like to suugest I meant.
I don't mid that you took the piss, I just hate smart bastards putting words in my mouth. Not really a very nice thing to do is it really?

Mario007 · 03-10-2009 11:49pm

nullzero wrote: »

Well how it sounded to you doesn't capture what I actually meant.
It was a simple smart ass comment, not a suggestion of conspiracy or anything else you might like to suugest I meant.
I don't mid that you took the piss, I just hate smart bastards putting words in my mouth. Not really a very nice thing to do is it really?

in that case i apologize. it did sound to me like a bit of conspiracy theory and frankly i've heard enough these days(even one that eu army can start a crusade against the muslims) so thus i reacted in a fashion as i did.

Daftendirekt · 04-10-2009 3:54am

Out of curiosity, would any of the No means No crowd agree that the result more than justifies holding a second referendum?

ednwireland · 04-10-2009 10:08am

quick question to all the no people wanting another referendum, i'm assuming some of you voted for FF in the last general/european elections.

you voted in people who are blatantly pro europe you cant really complain if they push for a result they want to see, its like donegal voting no but pat the cope got in wtf ?
if we had a blatantly no gov. would they be so eager to rerun the referendum, prob not.

RandomName2 · 04-10-2009 11:00am

marco_polo wrote: »

No it isn't actually.

On the other question there will probably be a Eurabarometer poll in a few weeks / months as there always is. If on the grounds of that people feel the urge to elect a government at the next election, that will hold another referendum, then I will be more than happy to give Europe a Yes vote once again*.

* And I won't whinge about it either

And what government, exactly, is that?

And besides which, even though I thought Lisbon should not have been passed, I would not elect a government whose sole intention was to overturn the democratic will of the people. If Lisbon turns out to be bad for Ireland, and even if people made their decision based on the false promise of jobs, well - that's their problem.

RandomName2 · 04-10-2009 11:05am

ednwireland wrote: »

quick question to all the no people wanting another referendum, i'm assuming some of you voted for FF in the last general/european elections.

you voted in people who are blatantly pro europe you cant really complain if they push for a result they want to see, its like donegal voting no but pat the cope got in wtf ?
if we had a blatantly no gov. would they be so eager to rerun the referendum, prob not.

I voted for FF for the economy and social policy that is their main manifesto backdrop.

Also, didn't want Labour in government (taxes and social policy).

Didn't care whether or not Fine Gael was in government - but it wouldn't get a majority or form a coalition with PDs.

Also didn't think it was fair to vote in Fine Gael when FF had been instrumental in the development of the Celtic Tiger (even though I was a tad concerned about the property bubble). Besides which, Fine Gael is always whinging.

What has that got to do with Europe? Nothing.

RandomName2 · 04-10-2009 11:17am

One thing though -

It should probably be made illegal for parties to lie in a referendum such as this (where the winner is decided by who was the best lies)

The yes side: slick lies funded by lots of money
The no side: bizarre lies and scaremongering

I always said, though, that E1.84 was a campaign losing slogan.
Mind you, the mention of 'jobs' was always likely to produce a yes vote.

For men were born to pray and save,
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with Micheal O Leary on the make.

Bob_Harris · 04-10-2009 11:24am

DeVore wrote: »

You go get assurances that the treaty means we will have abortion, 1.84 minimum wage and have to join Nato and I'd be happy to have a rerun... cos to be fair, thats what the Yes side did after the last time...

DeV.

Actually what the Yes side did last time was analyse why the majority voted the way they did, found that the reasons a lot had voted No had little to do with the treaty, then went to the EU to get clarification on these reasons.

So, if you take the same principle, this time around we should analyse why the majority voted the way they did, and find a lot voted on misguiding and scaremongering reasons like "Yes to Jobs", "Yes to Europe", and "Yes to Recovery", then go to the EU with these reasons and get clarification and guarantees.

Could the EU come up with a legal guarantee to provide jobs, to ensure economic recovery, or to clarify if we would actually be isolated if we voted No, and give a legal guarantee on the isolation/stay at the heart of Europe issue that so many people based their vote on?

Daftendirekt · 04-10-2009 12:10pm

Bob_Harris wrote: »

Actually what the Yes side did last time was analyse why the majority voted the way they did, found that the reasons a lot had voted No had little to do with the treaty, then went to the EU to get clarification on these reasons.

So, if you take the same principle, this time around we should analyse why the majority voted the way they did, and find a lot voted on misguiding and scaremongering reasons like "Yes to Jobs", "Yes to Europe", and "Yes to Recovery", then go to the EU with these reasons and get clarification and guarantees.

Could the EU come up with a legal guarantee to provide jobs, to ensure economic recovery, or to clarify if we would actually be isolated if we voted No, and give a legal guarantee on the isolation/stay at the heart of Europe issue that so many people based their vote on?

First you'd have to elect a government who wanted to overturn Lisbon.

Also, why would the EU give guarantees that we wouldn't be isolated, and that economic recovery would occur if we overturned Lisbon? Since the other member states presumably don't want Ireland to reverse ratification?

So when will we see a survey done on why people voted yes...

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