Should you only go to a teacher for a grind?

pathway33

Recent posters to the grinds sticky above have said that

" the only people qualified to give you a grind in a subject is a SECONDARY SCHOOL TEACHER of that subject, period! They are the only people with experience/qualifications in the subject/corrections/exam layout,marking scheme and technique. I strongly advise not to get grinds from anyone other than a qualified secondary teacher of the subject. "

Should you only go to a teacher for a grind? There are lots of teachers who have never corrected state exams so haven't they just got the same public information available on www.examinations.ie as non-teachers?

Lawliet

Well it makes sense that a teacher of that subject would be the best option, but someone who is studying the subject in collage and got an A in that subject at leaving could be just as good.
It's not always possible to find a secondary school teacher of a specific subject who gives grinds. Especially if you live in a rural area like I do. Plus it can be very expensive, and I've known people who have been stuck getting group grinds because the teacher is so in demand.

rainbowtrout

pathway33 wrote: »

Recent posters to the grinds sticky above have said that

" the only people qualified to give you a grind in a subject is a SECONDARY SCHOOL TEACHER of that subject, period! They are the only people with experience/qualifications in the subject/corrections/exam layout,marking scheme and technique. I strongly advise not to get grinds from anyone other than a qualified secondary teacher of the subject. "

Should you only go to a teacher for a grind? There are lots of teachers who have never corrected state exams so haven't they just got the same public information available on www.examinations.ie as non-teachers?

I'm sure there are plenty of non-teachers who are good at giving grinds and you're right the marking schemes are freely available to anyone who wants them, but a teacher who has the experience of correcting will be able to advise a student of how to interpret a marking scheme, what will be accepted/not accepted, how to approach answering a question.

I suppose it depends on what the student wants from the grind. Sometimes a basic grounding in the subject is where they are starting, some students want to learn about exam technique and how to maximize their points in a subject. The first may not necessarily need a teacher with correction experience where as the latter would probably benefit from it.

lauralee28

I completely agree with the poster. Fair enough someone studying a subject in college or who got an A in it, has a certain amount of knowledge in it. However this is NOT the same as a secondary teacher qualified to teach that subject. They are teaching and correcting the subject day in day out as well as having experience with the State exams. This is not the same as someone looking at a marking scheme on the examinations website!!! They haven't studied the literature on the papers. Its basic common sense here! When I was doing my degree in the subjects I'm teaching now(which I got A's in), I didn't give grinds as I in no way felt qualified to do so.
At the end of the day, it's up to the paying student but I think basic common sense answers the question.

RexMundi

I would definatley say no. Many non teachers who give grinds are of a very high quality. From my experience they are as good as teachers.

implausible

RexMundi wrote: »

I would definatley say no. Many non teachers who give grinds are of a very high quality. From my experience they are as good as teachers.

your experience sounds exceptional. Someone with a degree in English may have read all the material on the course but would be useless to a Leaving Cert student for grinds. You need experience in teaching the course and exam technique to be any good at giving grinds, especially at Leaving Cert level. Knowledge does not equal teaching ability.

RibenaHead

I've a friend who is fantastic at Spanish, got an A in the LC and is getting As all through college in Spanish. I reckon she'd give just as good quality grinds as any secondary school Spanish teacher.

I really think it depends on the grinds teacher themselves...

RexMundi

deemark wrote: »

your experience sounds exceptional. Someone with a degree in English may have read all the material on the course but would be useless to a Leaving Cert student for grinds. You need experience in teaching the course and exam technique to be any good at giving grinds, especially at Leaving Cert level. Knowledge does not equal teaching ability.

... but its not teaching. A grind helps explain and make clearer where a student's teacher has not.

I would think that a grind who sat the LC recently for example and got a good result would be better able to guide a student with studying than a teacher who is often quite out of touch.

Also knowing exam technique and the curriculum is not that hard, especially for just one subject with which you likely have knowledge to a further depth than is required.

gaeilgebeo

RexMundi wrote: »

... but its not teaching. A grind helps explain and make clearer where a student's teacher has not.

I would think that a grind who sat the LC recently for example and got a good result would be better able to guide a student with studying than a teacher who is often quite out of touch.

Also knowing exam technique and the curriculum is not that hard, especially for just one subject with which you likely have knowledge to a further depth than is required.[/quo

What a bizzare comment to make!? Yes a grind IS teaching. Believe me, I've been giving grinds long enough. A student doesn't just get grinds because of something "the teacher hasn't made clear to them"! They are often weak at a subject or need help enhancing their grades.

As for your comment "knowing exam technique and the curriculum is not that hard", sure why should secondary teachers bother training for 4 years, sure its not that hard! Ridiculous!

If you are not teaching the subject or qualified to teach it, you cannot give the same service as a secondary school teacher of that subject, end of!

And believe me, in the current economic climate, parents are demanding a level of service when parting with hard earned cash. So it'll no longer be a case of someone saying "I got an A in Irish/french/maths, sure i'll give
grinds for €40 an hour". Parents/Students will be a bit more consious of selecting grinds.

gaeilgegrinds

My opinion on this is that is depends on the student. When in school my maths grinds were from a college student who was just amazing at explaining maths. I do however find that it is exam technique and knowledge of what they HAVE to know that lets most students down. Most know a lot but don't know how to show that. I've corrected for years and done the orals, I really find these have made me a much better teacher and any grinds I give are much better since learning what I learned doing this. I always give references. It helps to talk to someone who has gone to the grinds teacher, a quick phonecall will make up your mind.

pathway33

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

If you are not teaching the subject or qualified to teach it, you cannot give the same service as a secondary school teacher of that subject

But not all teachers are as good as you. It would be foolish for a parent to believe that all teachers give good grinds.

PhysiologyRocks

I really think it depends on a lot of factors: the student, the grind-giver, the subject and the aim.

I know people who went to teachers for grinds, and they were great. I've known people to go to non-teachers who were also great. And some not-so-greats from both camps.

For a language, if the aim is to improve, a native speaker could be of huge help. If the aim is to improve exam technique, then maybe not.

English is certainly trickier, as is Irish. Sciences are straightforward enough.

I give biology grinds, but my rates reflect my status as a non-teacher, and all pupils and parents know that I'm not. I make darn well sure that I know the marking schemes and exam papers inside-out. I know the material from my own Leaving Cert. and from making out notes (and I study the subject further as part of college). If I'm uncertain of anything, I ask teachers I know. I've seen good results (HA1 and HA2 last year) and I've never had any complaints.

Perhaps a teacher would do better. Perhaps not.

pathway33

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

As for your comment "knowing exam technique and the curriculum is not that hard", sure why should secondary teachers bother training for 4 years, sure its not that hard! Ridiculous!

I thought most secondary teachers only trained for 8 or 9 months under the PGDE. Their 3 year undergraduate degree would have very very little to do with leaving cert exam technique as it's a general degree. Why would it?

As I understand it many trainee teachers are only allowed to teach non-exam years so a qualified teacher could be oblivious to the content of the leaving cert curriculum.

Just take a browse through the posts here and see how many maths and science teachers didn't even know that the new mathematics tables due to be used in the leaving cert 2010 even existed. I wouldn't like one of those qualified teachers giving me grinds.

gaeilgebeo

pathway33 wrote: »

But not all teachers are as good as you. It would be foolish for a parent to believe that all teachers give good grinds.

If you are not a good teacher, who is going to go to grinds with you?????? A bit of a contradiction.

proinsais

Im good at irish i never done the leaving cert. Or trained as a teacher. My friend asked me to give her son lc grinds as he wasnt passing his exams. I read past papers devised a strategy and went through a few key things i explained them simply enough.
He amazed all by passing.
At a later date i was introduced to his irish teacher. I immediatley started a conversation in irish.
His teacher politley told me that she couldnt speak irish. So even though she was qualified and i wasnt who would you go to for grinds.

pathway33

proinsais wrote: »

i was introduced to his irish teacher. I immediatley started a conversation in irish.
His teacher politley told me that she couldnt speak irish.

That does not surprise me at all. Irish is the one subject where there is a shortage of decent teachers.

pathway33

proinsais wrote: »

who would you go to for grinds.

The person who can speak Irish over the person who can call herself a teacher every day thank-you very much.

gaeilgebeo

proinsais wrote: »

Im good at irish i never done the leaving cert. Or trained as a teacher. My friend asked me to give her son lc grinds as he wasnt passing his exams. I read past papers devised a strategy and went through a few key things i explained them simply enough.
He amazed all by passing.
At a later date i was introduced to his irish teacher. I immediatley started a conversation in irish.
His teacher politley told me that she couldnt speak irish. So even though she was qualified and i wasnt who would you go to for grinds.

Unfortunetly, this is not uncommon in the case of Irish teaching. I see it at inservices.
Having said that, I must point out that it is not always the "most fluent" in the language who can teach it the best.
Basic fluency in the language is a must though. Surprised the teacher had a job because most interviews are half in Irish, therefore your fluency is tested.

Lawliet

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Surprised the teacher had a job because most interviews are half in Irish, therefore your fluency is tested.

Maybe she did the same thing most leaving cert students do for their orals, and learned off a copy of possible questions and answers!

gaeilgebeo

Lawliet wrote: »

Maybe she did the same thing most leaving cert students do for their orals, and learned off a copy of possible questions and answers!

It would be difficult to do this really. I've done 3 interviews over the years and its been such a mixed bag of questions in Irish. There is very little you could learn off!

Toto Wolfcastle

I agree, I find it difficult to imagine how anyone could get through an interview in Irish without being able to speak it. What a disgrace that she was allowed teach if she did, in fact, have no Irish. I can't understand how it's possible to teach it without a good grasp of it. Obviously teachers like that are to be avoided for grinds. (And should not be teaching at all but that's for another day.) However, in general, a good teacher is the best person to get grinds from.

pathway33

janeybabe wrote: »

I agree, I find it difficult to imagine how anyone could get through an interview in Irish without being able to speak it. What a disgrace that she was allowed teach if she did, in fact, have no Irish. I can't understand how it's possible to teach it without a good grasp of it. Obviously teachers like that are to be avoided for grinds. (And should not be teaching at all but that's for another day.) However, in general, a good teacher is the best person to get grinds from.

I imagine she had plenty of irish, just not conversational. I can rattle off an hour of irish in front of my bedroom mirror but still can't understand more than 10% of TG4 or Radio na Gaelteachta (or whatever that irish radio station is called that seems to come in where ever you are in Ireland). I simply can't understand irish when I hear it. However I'd 'fly' through an interview in irish because i'd be doing most of the talking

Maybe she had 'pull'

gaeilgebeo

pathway33 wrote: »

I imagine she had plenty of irish, just not conversational. I can rattle off an hour of irish in front of my bedroom mirror but still can't understand more than 10% of TG4 or Radio na Gaelteachta (or whatever that irish radio station is called that seems to come in where ever you are in Ireland). I simply can't understand irish when I hear it. However I'd 'fly' through an interview in irish because i'd be doing most of the talking

Maybe she had 'pull'

You can't just go into an Irish interview and waffle out any Irish that you know and "fly" through an interview. The questions are very specific on all aspects of education/teaching/learning, with plenty of random questions/topics thrown in! You cant just go in and "do all the talking" as you put it. It is an INTERVIEW :rolleyes:

pathway33

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

You can't just go into an Irish interview and waffle out any Irish that you know and "fly" through an interview. The questions are very specific on all aspects of education/teaching/learning, with plenty of random questions/topics thrown in! You cant just go in and "do all the talking" as you put it. It is an INTERVIEW :rolleyes:

so there was 'pull' ?

Toto Wolfcastle

pathway33 wrote: »

so there was 'pull' ?

Without knowing all the facts I would say that it is entirely possible that there was 'pull'. It happens in most jobs. It's not right, but it does happen. Then again, she could have just been lucky with the questions asked on the day. The Teaching Council is supposed to get rid of things like this happening, but it's down to the individual schools to do the hiring.

Hillel

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

You can't just go into an Irish interview and waffle out any Irish that you know and "fly" through an interview. The questions are very specific on all aspects of education/teaching/learning, with plenty of random questions/topics thrown in! You cant just go in and "do all the talking" as you put it. It is an INTERVIEW :rolleyes:

The composition of the interview panel is entirely at the discretion of the Board of Management. She could have got lucky, in that no member of the interview panel was strong at Irish. Having said that, I couldn't claim that all interview panels are unbiased. Indeed, I have seen compelling evidence to the contrary. Therefore, while unlikely, pull cannot be ruled out.

pathway33

Hillel wrote: »

The composition of the interview panel is entirely at the discretion of the Board of Management. She could have got lucky, in that no member of the interview panel was strong at Irish. Having said that, I couldn't claim that all interview panels are unbiased. Indeed, I have seen compelling evidence to the contrary. Therefore, while unlikely, pull cannot be ruled out.

If this wasn't so tragic it would be funny. A person who cannot converse comfortably in irish goes for a job teaching leaving cert irish, but it doesn't matter that she's crap at conversational irish because so are the interviewers.

Show me the way to holyhead

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

elmoslattery

i wouldnt say you should only go toteachers for grinds but make sure the person you do go to has some sort of qualifications.

I know someone who gives maths grind for OL and the only maths qualifications she has is a B grade at OL.She charges 50 EURO an hour.I think people nly get grinds frm her cus she is hot!

pathway33

elmoslattery wrote: »

i wouldnt say you should only go toteachers for grinds but make sure the person you do go to has some sort of qualifications.

I know someone who gives maths grind for OL and the only maths qualifications she has is a B grade at OL.She charges 50 EURO an hour.I think people nly get grinds frm her cus she is hot!

she's familiar with the course and her rate is reasonable. Do you have her phone number?

elmoslattery

pathway33 wrote: »

she's familiar with the course and her rate is reasonable. Do you have her phone number?

i hope your jokin(and no i dnt av it)