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Pro-EU and Anti-Lisbon: a contradiction?

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  • 01-10-2009 5:27pm
    #1
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭


    Many No-siders stick in the oft heard "Im pro-EU BUT..." somewhere in the argument in an attempt to gain credibility. The question is, can you be pro-EU and anti-Lisbon?

    First off, a quote:
    By rejecting [The Treaty of Lisbon] we are basically saying that we do not want Europe to operate efficiently or rationally, and that we now consider the EU to be a mechanism that is acting in bad faith and not in the interests of the Irish State." - Paul_Hacket

    I think that is a good summary of the situation. Fundamentally, the reason the Yes campaign find it so hard to campaign is because the Lisbon Treaty is boring. It is! It doesn't create any of the scare scenario apocalypses the No side say it will. And theres nothing there to make you quiver with absolute delight. Its just a reforming document that brings in positive changes that do make the EU more efficient and more democratic. Nothing Herculean, in my opinion. Just small positive changes.

    Anyone who is against this Treaty is obviously just against this reform. This boring, positive reform. Because when you take away the veil of lies and the scare stories, what they are attacking are things like a more powerful EU parliament. They arent against €1.84 minimum wage because its not being brought in. They arent fighting for democracy because democracy will still be here!

    I think that being pro-EU means that you agree with the EU in the sense that it has brought Peace, good economic times and really great things like Freedom of Travel. And what Lisbon does (from my outlook) is simply clean up decision making, adds a bit more democracy while giving the EU slightly more competencies where the member states have delegated. I just dont see how these two views can be reconciled.


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    #2
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    "Im pro-EU BUT..."

    Especially when it comes from the likes of Sinn Fein reps

    a party which campaigned against every single EU treaty, including joining the EU

    /


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    #3
    MrMatisse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭MrMatisse


    Oh jesus who cares we will be voting in ten hours or so.

    Join the thread scofflaw started on the covenant between ireland and Jesus.

    Its where the real debate is.


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    #4
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    I thought I was pro-EU but it depends on how you define "E.U" I guess. I support the concept of a common market and common laws in the area of keeping that common market fair. Outside of that I want all other laws dealt with at a national level.
    So I am pro- some kind of common market community situation but is that what you mean or do you mean the current E.U. or do you mean the direction the current E.U. wishes to take.
    Genuinely curious by the way...


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