Galway - Dublin €1

Sponge Bob

This will do a lot for Rail Travel , Citylink are now offering Express Bus as well with a promotional €1 fare to Dublin, maybe even from Dublin but I did not check

Citylink call it super single or something on their crappy website and that is the only way to book it to avail of the offer .

munchkin_utd

it does highlight though the competition that rail will face with the new motorways coming on stream.
Previously the reason to pay the premium for rail was the comfort and speed compared to the road journey.

Even as a fan of rail, the last time i travelled from Dublin to Belfast was by non stop express bus simply because it was a matter of minutes slower than the train and much much cheaper, and with the new motorway is a comfortable enough journey.

If you multiply my decision by a few million lost passengers across the system then thats 10s of millions of potential lost revenue to rail.

And thats 10s of millions of additional euros that the tax payer has to stump up in subsidy for the rail system because of busses being permitted to run duplicate services to rail.

on coming to germany I didnt understand why private busses werent allowed to do inter city routes here.
But when you think of it, why should the government cost the taxpayer money by issuing competing bus licences willy nilly that at the end of the day result in lost bums on seats on already subsidised trains?

serfboard

munchkin_utd wrote: »

it does highlight though the competition that rail will face with the new motorways coming on stream.

And given what McCarthy has said about rail (that it gets the most subsidies), you'd have to think the future for rail travel looks very bleak indeed.

Roll on West-On-Track, though! :rolleyes:

Dum_Dum

One of the best ways rail can compete is to offer through services along the mainlines to Dublin Airport.

Judgement Day

Dum_Dum wrote: »

One of the best ways rail can compete is to offer through services along the mainlines to Dublin Airport.

And how are they going to do that?

amacachi

munchkin_utd wrote: »

on coming to germany I didnt understand why private busses werent allowed to do inter city routes here.
But when you think of it, why should the government cost the taxpayer money by issuing competing bus licences willy nilly that at the end of the day result in lost bums on seats on already subsidised trains?

Why should they cost the taxpayer money to subsidise the trains in the first place then?

Judgement Day

munchkin_utd wrote: »

it does highlight though the competition that rail will face with the new motorways coming on stream.
Previously the reason to pay the premium for rail was the comfort and speed compared to the road journey.

Even as a fan of rail, the last time i travelled from Dublin to Belfast was by non stop express bus simply because it was a matter of minutes slower than the train and much much cheaper, and with the new motorway is a comfortable enough journey.

If you multiply my decision by a few million lost passengers across the system then thats 10s of millions of potential lost revenue to rail.

And thats 10s of millions of additional euros that the tax payer has to stump up in subsidy for the rail system because of busses being permitted to run duplicate services to rail.

on coming to germany I didnt understand why private busses werent allowed to do inter city routes here.
But when you think of it, why should the government cost the taxpayer money by issuing competing bus licences willy nilly that at the end of the day result in lost bums on seats on already subsidised trains?

It's called proper long term planning. In Ireland we subsidise CIE to compete with itself - Bus Eireann competing with Irish Rail - and we also allow virtually uncontrolled private coach competition too. Marvellous! :mad:

flazio

Maybe I'm being a bit small minded here but it seems a bit unfair that GoBus and now City Link are leaving all the towns between Galway and Dublin behind and handing the monopoly back to Bus Eireann.

Dum_Dum

Judgement Day wrote: »

And how are they going to do that?

You could start by building a spur from the Dublin-Belfast line; a shockingly lengthy 3.77miles.

Victor

amacachi wrote: »

Why should they cost the taxpayer money to subsidise the trains in the first place then?

And how much has road transport cost over the last 10 years?

amacachi

Victor wrote: »

And how much has road transport cost over the last 10 years?

Obviously I don't have figures but I'd've thought the fact that private bus operators can start up and not get constantly subsidised to run their services were an indication that they deliver some kind of value?

Judgement Day

amacachi wrote: »

Obviously I don't have figures but I'd've thought the fact that private bus operators can start up and not get constantly subsidised to run their services were an indication that they deliver some kind of value?

Is that like every Tom, Dick and Harry with four wheels under them operating a courier service and undercutting each other for business? How does the shambles that we now have for freight transport within Ireland prove that road building delivers value? Apart from increasing Ireland's dependence on imported fuels, increasing greenhouse emissions and storing up a massive long term road maintenance bill.

Judgement Day

Dum_Dum wrote: »

You could start by building a spur from the Dublin-Belfast line; a shockingly lengthy 3.77miles.

You make it sound like just slapping down a bit of Hornby track on the carpet at home - if only it was that easy.

Sponge Bob

Judgement Day wrote: »

You make it sound like just slapping down a bit of Hornby track on the carpet at home - if only it was that easy.

It was that easy until some **** built a motorway in the way, now we seemingly gotta pay 100s of Billions to dig it all the way up from the southside because southsiders do not want to be seen on the northside :cool:

transylman

Great news for the rail unions though. The only bad thing about working for IE was having to deal with moaning costumers all the time. Now, even that won't be a problem anymore and they can go about their business of driving empty trains hassle free.

serfboard

flazio wrote: »

Maybe I'm being a bit small minded here but it seems a bit unfair that GoBus and now City Link are leaving all the towns between Galway and Dublin behind and handing the monopoly back to Bus Eireann.

Citylink aren't leaving the towns behind. They're providing both a Non-Stop and a Multi-Stop service.

KevR

My sister is going to college in Dublin and she comes home every weekend. She used to take the train last year which was €33 for a student return. This year she was going to take the GoBus because it's as quick as the train and only €20 return.

Yesterday she booked CityLink (non-stop services) for nearly every weekend between now and her Christmas holidays, total €22 :eek:.

She worked it out and it's something like a €260 saving on the train and that's only for the first semester.

serfboard

KevR wrote: »

My sister is going to college in Dublin and she comes home every weekend. She used to take the train last year which was €33 for a student return. This year she was going to take the GoBus because it's as quick as the train and only €20 return.

Yesterday she booked CityLink (non-stop services) for nearly every weekend between now and her Christmas holidays, total €22 :eek:.

She worked it out and it's something like a €260 saving on the train and that's only for the first semester.

That's the train-killer right there. And, when the M6 opens fully late this year (or early next) the damage will be even greater.

KevR

The Galway-Ballinasloe will cut at least another 20mins off the time, probably 30mins at peak times.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

And given what McCarthy has said about rail (that it gets the most subsidies), you'd have to think the future for rail travel looks very bleak indeed.

Roll on West-On-Track, though! :rolleyes:

Serf the Greens will scupper the decent road to give the WRC a run for its money...see latest on the u no Wot.

KC61

You have to wonder though, can the market sustain ALL of these services?

There are now on a daily basis between Dublin and Galway:
Citylink Non-Stop - 14 services each way
Citylink Stopping - 15 services each way
Gobus Non-Stop - 14 services each way
Bus Eireann - 17 services each way
Irish Rail - 7 services each way

serfboard

KC61 wrote: »

You have to wonder though, can the market sustain ALL of these services?

There are now on a daily basis between Dublin and Galway:
Citylink Non-Stop - 14 services each way
Citylink Stopping - 15 services each way
Gobus Non-Stop - 14 services each way
Bus Eireann - 17 services each way
Irish Rail - 7 services each way

Good question - however given that Bus Eireann and Irish Rail will continue to receive subsidies, the question must really be asked about the private operators.

Citylink Non-Stop was introduced <speculation>to kill GoBus</speculation>, who have demonstrated the need for a Non-Stop service. Given that they are longer at it, and have, I think, more resources at their disposal (and are certainly pricing that way), I would expect Citylink Non-Stop to win out. The question they would then rightly ask themselves is which is more profitable - the Non-Stop or the Multi-Stop service?

Eventually they may decide to cancel their Stopping service, leaving Bus Eireann to do that one. So you would then have 3 services:

Irish Rail - Stopping
Bus Eireann - Stopping
Citylink - Non-Stop

Vic_08

serfboard wrote: »

Good question - however given that Bus Eireann and Irish Rail will continue to receive subsidies, the question must really be asked about the private operators.

Bus Eireann Expressway services pay their own way, they recieve no subsidy, it all goes on the heavily loss-making rural services and city/commuter routes.

serfboard wrote: »

Citylink Non-Stop was introduced <speculation>to kill GoBus</speculation>,

I think it is very clear that is the intention, every single Go-Bus departure now has a Citylink service leaving 15mns ahead of it.

The other interesting thing about this new development is that the Citylink direct services appear to be operated by Callinans Coaches (with makeshift Citylink stickers on the sides) who are also operating the Go-Bus service on contract to Burkes.

serfboard

Vic_08 wrote: »

Bus Eireann Expressway services pay their own way, they recieve no subsidy, it all goes on the heavily loss-making rural services and city/commuter routes.

You're right ... although we don't have figures for Galway-Dublin do we? Just Expressway in general. (And Colm McCarthy recommended that Expressway be sold off).

Vic_08 wrote: »

The other interesting thing about this new development is that the Citylink direct services appear to be operated by Callinans Coaches (with makeshift Citylink stickers on the sides) who are also operating the Go-Bus service on contract to Burkes.

That's gas. Callinans also provide backup buses to Bus Eireann ... so that means that they are supplying buses to Bus Eireann, GoBus and Citylink? Nice one!

KC61

From The Irish Times today, by Paul Cullen:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1023/1224257293904.html

Firm told to cease Dublin to Galway bus service:

THE DEPARTMENT of Transport has ordered one of the country’s biggest private bus operators to cease operating a non-stop service between Dublin and Galway because it is unlicensed.

However, Citylink is refusing to stop operating the service, which started earlier this month. The company argues that the service is properly licensed as it is a variation of an existing service on the Dublin-Galway route which is slower because it stops in towns along the way.

The department has asked the Garda to consider prosecuting Citylink over the new service, The Irish Times understands. A meeting this week between department officials and the company failed to resolve the issue.

A department spokeswoman said Citylink was licensed to operate between Galway and Dublin airport but was also operating services that did not comply with the conditions of this licence, in terms of stops en route.

“The department has been in contact with Citylink and instructed them to cease the running of any unlicensed services with immediate effect.”

Citylink’s existing licence came up for renewal before the end of the year, she added.

The department’s intervention follows a complaint by rival coach operators GoBus (trading as Evobus Ltd), which obtained a licence from the department for a non-stop service between Dublin and Galway last August after almost three years of waiting.

The row has provoked a price war on the route, with fares as low as €1 for some online bookings on Citylink coaches.

GoBus boss Jim Burke claims Citylink, which is owned by global transport company Comfort Del Gro, with headquarters in Singapore, is using unfair tactics to drive his family-owned firm out of business.

“Despite several official complaints to the department and the Garda Síochána, this company is continuing to operate and is decimating our business. Over 30 jobs are at risk by the unfair nature of this onslaught against us. We have invested nearly €1.5 million to date and are facing ruin if this company is allowed to carry on.

“Fair competition is healthy and good for the consumer. Unfair competition, in order to wipe out competitors, is bad news for the consumers in the long run, with the return of higher fares and often appalling service when the competition disappears.”

Citylink spokesman Mark Bushell said that while there were grey areas in the law, the company believed its service was operating legally. Another operator, which he declined to name, had operated for up to five months without a licence. Twenty jobs had been created with the new service, he added.

Mr Bushell dismissed GoBus’s characterisation of the dispute as a David versus Goliath struggle.

“We’re not in the business of crushing other companies. In fact, we co-exist with many rival bus companies on other routes.”

KC61

I have to say I did wonder how Citylink got this schedule past the department. They appear to be basically ignoring the licensing procedure (in the same way as Patton Flyer).

However when you look at the 1932 Transport Act and look at the penalties, can you blame them?

"Every person who carries on a passenger road service in contravention of this section shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds together with, in the case of a continuing offence, a further fine not exceeding five pounds for every day during which the offence continues."

Something tells me that they can afford this....