What should we do

LegacyUser

Hi I would welcome any advice or comments good or bad. I am in a long terms relationship , we have a little kid too, and I think its about to end.

Our relationship has been v rocky over th past 5 years because my partner (and I to an extent) went through some really tough times and he became depressed. things have improved a bit lately as he is taking medication and his mood swings and bad temper have lessened.

We've had so many fights, and usually it is down to him being an ass, or worse (he has admitted this.) This is why he started taking medication.

The latest row though seems to be the straw that broke the camels back. However this time its mostly my fault. I can see that and I have admitted this to him and apologised. This doesn't seemto be enough for him though, he's really going for broke this time with the shouting & screaming at me, and stressing how much I embarrassed him by ringing him pissed off when he was in company (it was late and I didn't know where he was). Not nice I know and I've said I'm sorry.

The thing is he is really playing on this and I know he will continue this evening. He twists absolutely everything I say and no matter what, I end up the villain of the piece. HE's bandying about ultimatums now, asking if I want him to leave.

The thing is, I'm so drained and fed-up with him, that part of me feels like saying yes. We can't afford that however. He won't do counselling. Anyone any suggestions?

laura l

there's a kid involved, therefore professional advice would be better IMO. talk to your GP about it and to your OH about counselling again. not a good environment for your child right now. do you have family close by who you could talk to?

Wibbs

My 2 cents? He's acting like a little boy IMHO. Call me a caveman or a genderist if you will, but men, grown men should never shout and scream*. An odd lapse is acceptable just about, but only in extremis such as sudden bereavement. But acting like a boy who happens to shave is not acceptable. Your mistake was just that, a mistake. We all make them and you it seems have apologised. So he should take that apology and not use it as a stick to beat you with. Again not good behaviour.

He needs to learn this or both of you are likely to revisit this and not be content long term. He needs to learn this for himself, for his partner and for his child. Now his depression is obviously going to have a big impact on his thought process and that is understandable. Fair play to him for seeking help with that and getting treatment for that. He needed to fix that. Now he needs to fix this relationship and so do you, so he should seek help with that too and you beside him on that journey. What are his objections to going down that route? I mean he had the courage to seek help for the depression which can't have been easy for him.

Then there's the part you say you played in this. You have to catch yourself before you go down the road of adding to the flames rather than calming them. I can understand if it's born of frustrations you have but going off on one(if that's what you've done before) while giving you a temporary emtional outlet, causes more damage than it sorts. It'll put him on the back foot. It nearly always takes two to tango.

In most arguments, especially long standing ones, people can draw lines between each other and face each other like WW1 soldiers entrenched across no mans land. they forget the what and whys and concentrate on the whos and blame. Pointless.

It is my firm belief that too many take it to the personal and attach far more importance to who's right, not what's right. Wise and emotionally healthy men and women know the difference.

A good relationship councilor should help you both find the what and then look to fixing that and remove the blame out of the equation. Hopefully to a point where you both feel part of the relationship, both feel personal and group responsibility for the relationship and grow together in that relationship. That's a healthy environment for you both and your child.



*Neither should women, but what may sound like shouting to a man, can often be the end point of frustration that the man isn't listening, or a pressure release valve. I've known women, bloody good, strong women who have blown their top emotionally at times as a release, but I've yet to meet any man I would consider a good strong man who made any sort of a habit of the same. He should get that need for release some other way. Again colour me caveman if you will it's just my take.

LegacyUser

Thanks for your replies. It really helps to get a bit of perspective.

I don't scream and shout but I do cry and get very emotional. I can't help it, I cry very easily. I hate it, It doesn't bother him though! How do we have a calm and reasonably quiet and tearless discussion? He wont stop shouting if I ask him to, do I walk away?

How do you convince someone that counselling is a good idea. I think that deep down a lot of things will be pointed out / or would become apparent and he would be uncomfortable with that and probably won't want to change. He's not a "new man".

I don't know if he loves me anymore, and if I'm really honest, I don't know if I love him anymore either. I think I blew the other night because I feel I don't matter to him, not even to tell me where he was. HE's ignored me in other waysb too and just is not the nice person to me that he once was.

Wibbs

I'm no counselor so take with a pinch of salt but I've seen a lot of the following work and work for me in the past.

ellickson wrote: »

I don't scream and shout but I do cry and get very emotional. I can't help it, I cry very easily. I hate it, It doesn't bother him though!

Some cry more than others, some wear their emotions more than others. Men and women. No biggies. He knows you long enough that he should realise that's how you are and how sometimes you deal with things. So long as its not used as a guilt trip or a weapon in a discussion, he shouldn't use that as an excuse not to talk with you. Maybe he should take a time out until you collect your thoughts. Or maybe he should look at how he sometimes may be triggering this in you.

How do we have a calm and reasonably quiet and tearless discussion?

I reckon by both accepting that at times in the discussion emotions may get the better of both of you and when that happens both should take a breath, a time out until the first heavy wave of feelings dissipates? Maybe before you discuss anything, agree to a set time. Not when he's come in from work or when you've both a couple of glasses of vino in you, times like that. Pick the right time. IMHO and IME I've noticed women can sometimes have a handy knack of picking the worst times ever for men. Maybe agree in advance a time that suits you both. Both agree to write down a list of the main points you want to get across. Do the first list off the top of your head. Leave it for a while, come back and look at it harder. Look at what are the really important bits you want to get across to your partner. All to often discussion become arguments because emotions run away and non important stuff gets in the way. Look at the list and try and see what's behind some of the points. So lets say he does no housework. The symptom is him not doing housework, but the reason behind the obvious is that he doesn't respect the work you do. That kinda thing. He needs to make his own list too.

Then when you sit down, flip a coin to see who goes first with their side of the story. Let that person speak and finish. No interruptions. Listen to what they are saying. I reckon another reason a lot of the time discussions become arguments is one or both feel they're not being heard or listened to. Try not to take it personally or too personally at any rate. Again tr to forget about who's right or wrong, but think about what's right or wrong. Accept too, that no matter what the discussion no one side is 100% right or 100% wrong. Tell him this. Tell him you are bound to be wrong about some things, or have misunderstood him and you want to know what he thinks you're wrong about. You'll listen without interrupting him and hope he'll do the same when it's his turn. I have found anyway, that when one side admits they're wrong, it often follows that the other side will feel freer to do the same.

He wont stop shouting if I ask him to, do I walk away?

Take the time out. Try not to cry as that will escalate it or he'll feel he's getting a reaction, any reaction. Best to just say "OK x we'll discuss this later when it's a better time(don't say when you've calmed down. It'll have much the same effect as him saying to you "ah you're hormonal":))

How do you convince someone that counselling is a good idea. I think that deep down a lot of things will be pointed out / or would become apparent and he would be uncomfortable with that and probably won't want to change. He's not a "new man".

Meh new men, old fashioned men? I don't buy it. As far as Im concerned there are just men and there are boys. IMHO So called new men can be as bad only more passive aggressive. Bring up the notion in discussion. If he goes for the structured discussion when it's just you pair, it may ease him into the notion of doing the same with outside help? If he won't enter into discussion with just you two I dunno how you can move forward from that.

I don't know if he loves me anymore, and if I'm really honest, I don't know if I love him anymore either. I think I blew the other night because I feel I don't matter to him, not even to tell me where he was. HE's ignored me in other waysb too and just is not the nice person to me that he once was.

Maybe you don't and maybe he doesn't, but unresolved issues and constant bickering can easily kill even the strongest love and atttraction.

LegacyUser

Thank you Wibbs, that helps a lot. Maybe you should be a professional! I know a lot of what you said is common sense, but when you're in the thick of it its hard to see clearly, and you're right, we do start to zone in on what he did or didnt do and what I did or didn't do, and a good deal of blaming goes on (even if its just in our heads).

Theres a long history to our problems and I guess we just (or I just) put it down to what has happened and did not see that our relationship itself was deteriorating to the point its at now.

Thanks again, hopefully we can work things out.

nesbitt

ellickson wrote: »

However this time its mostly my fault. I can see that and I have admitted this to him and apologised. This doesn't seemto be enough for him though, he's really going for broke this time with the shouting & screaming at me, and stressing how much I embarrassed him by ringing him pissed off when he was in company (it was late and I didn't know where he was). Not nice I know and I've said I'm sorry.

+1 with Wibbs reply.

Just wanted to say that sometimes people will use a situation as a smoke screen for there own behaviour. So you rang him because you did not know where he was and it was late, big wow. You had to apologise for this 'behaviour'. You were shouted and screamed at for embarrassing him by phoning him when he was 'in company'.... How is this 'not nice' of you and why are you sorry? This sounds like brain washing by your OH. Tread carefully, you have a child to think of.

hollis12

ellickson wrote: »

Hi I would welcome any advice or comments good or bad. I am in a long terms relationship , we have a little kid too, and I think its about to end.

Our relationship has been v rocky over th past 5 years because my partner (and I to an extent) went through some really tough times and he became depressed. things have improved a bit lately as he is taking medication and his mood swings and bad temper have lessened.

We've had so many fights, and usually it is down to him being an ass, or worse (he has admitted this.) This is why he started taking medication.

The latest row though seems to be the straw that broke the camels back. However this time its mostly my fault. I can see that and I have admitted this to him and apologised. This doesn't seemto be enough for him though, he's really going for broke this time with the shouting & screaming at me, and stressing how much I embarrassed him by ringing him pissed off when he was in company (it was late and I didn't know where he was). Not nice I know and I've said I'm sorry.

The thing is he is really playing on this and I know he will continue this evening. He twists absolutely everything I say and no matter what, I end up the villain of the piece. HE's bandying about ultimatums now, asking if I want him to leave.

The thing is, I'm so drained and fed-up with him, that part of me feels like saying yes. We can't afford that however. He won't do counselling. Anyone any suggestions?

listen very carefully to this i counsel many kids who grow up under "fathers" like this (father is too nice a word), i myself grew up with a emotionally abusive mother, its hell this man is toxic for the sake of you and your kid get out!!

this relationship isnt a relationship its a like a slaver/slave relationship dont bother with his tantrums he needs help!

hollis12

ellickson wrote: »

Thanks for your replies. It really helps to get a bit of perspective.

I don't scream and shout but I do cry and get very emotional. I can't help it, I cry very easily. I hate it, It doesn't bother him though! How do we have a calm and reasonably quiet and tearless discussion? He wont stop shouting if I ask him to, do I walk away?

How do you convince someone that counselling is a good idea. I think that deep down a lot of things will be pointed out / or would become apparent and he would be uncomfortable with that and probably won't want to change. He's not a "new man".

I don't know if he loves me anymore, and if I'm really honest, I don't know if I love him anymore either. I think I blew the other night because I feel I don't matter to him, not even to tell me where he was. HE's ignored me in other waysb too and just is not the nice person to me that he once was.

oh he does notice when you cry it gives him the idea that he has power over you, nice isnt it, trust me if you dont see it now you will down the line i grew up in a household like this, im 43 now and i hate my father for keeping me in the situation with my mother, get out for the kids sake, this is emotional abuse and a lot of therapists think its worse than pyshical or sexual abuse.

Taltos

I am not going to tell you to dump his ass or give him any ultimatums.

For a change I am maybe going to suggest something a bit different.
My sugg is for you both to try a trial separation for a short period - say 6 months.

Ask him to concentrate on his counselling. Agree to visitation rights for the child - you know he has him weekends or something like that. You stay at home.

But at the same time - you take this time for you - maybe get some counselling too - as per the last poster you have been abused for so long that you just cannot see it and chances are you have become so wrapped up in managing his moods and depression you have lost that core of yourself that you love the most.

Tell him you are not breaking up - but that for your sake and his you both need some distance for yourselves and your child. Hopefully at the end of the 6 mts and some joint counselling you can learn how to behave around one another without falling into bad habits - but be prepared that at the end of the 6mts you might just decide not to come back together either.

I really just think that you need some space and time to figure out what you really want - not just from him but from yourself too.