Stay Safe!!

lafors

Story from the inquest into the cyclist who was crushed by an artic. last year in Ferns. Poor woman

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1001/1224255613870.html?via=mr

I think articulated trucks are more a danger to "commuter man" than to most here as we seem to be very aware of the dangers, but you always have to be alert around them. I never go up the inside of an artic. anywhere near a traffic junction, best policy in my opinion. Stay safe!

seamus

Hard one to read that. If I'm ever in doubt about the width of a road, I just take control of it, simple as. If you're in the middle of the road, the truck has to be able to see you. Especially through small towns like Ferns where the traffic is moving slowly, you'd be insane to cycle anywhere but in the primary position.

alfalad

Saddest thing in my view apart from the loss to her family is she was cycling to raise money for charity!

Turbulent Bill

lafors wrote: »

Story from the inquest into the cyclist who was crushed by an artic. last year in Ferns. Poor woman

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1001/1224255613870.html?via=mr

I think articulated trucks are more a danger to "commuter man" than to most here as we seem to be very aware of the dangers, but you always have to be alert around them. I never go up the inside of an artic. anywhere near a traffic junction, best policy in my opinion. Stay safe!

This is a bit unusual as the article describes "...an articulated truck with no trailer attached", i.e., just the tractor unit. Most of these accidents involve trailers, where the turning arc is tighter than that of the tractor.

My sympathies to the family, a terrible way to go.

DirkVoodoo

Yeah I read that last night and it made my stomach turn. It was an awful accident but hopefully it will remind cyclists why you never go up the inside/alongside a truck/bus, it really is lethal.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah I read that last night and it made my stomach turn. It was an awful accident but hopefully it will remind cyclists why you never go up the inside/alongside a truck/bus, it really is lethal.

It really isn't lethal. Trucks can't move sideways.

You just need to make sure you have an contingency plan, like you should always do with cycling and driving.

None of which diminishes the tragic loss of life in this instance.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

It really isn't lethal. Trucks can't move sideways.

You just need to make sure you have an contingency plan, like you should always do with cycling and driving.

None of which diminishes the tragic loss of life in this instance.

No, but like in the story above, roads and footpaths in this country have a habit of widening and narrowing, so being pinned between the truck and a disappearing road ahead is not somewhere I would like to be.

I think a healthy respect for trucks and not to try and pass alongside them is the only plan you need, contingency or not.

Blowfish

My dad was actually in a pretty similar situation at one point. He was going around a left bend when an arctic started to overtake him, but moved left while doing so, leaving less and less space for him to cycle in.

Seeing the inevitable coming, he did the only thing he could do and threw himself and the bike to the left and flopped onto the footpath. Lots of road rash as a result, but could have been a hell of a lot worse.

CheGuedara

Blowfish wrote: »

My dad was actually in a pretty similar situation at one point. He was going around a left bend when an arctic started to overtake him, but moved left while doing so, leaving less and less space for him to cycle in.

Seeing the inevitable coming, he did the only thing he could do and threw himself and the bike to the left and flopped onto the footpath. Lots of road rash as a result, but could have been a hell of a lot worse.

Similar story from home too - a friend from the mountaineering club was cycling along a road with a very gentle bend on it and was similarly in the process of being over took by an artic pulling a trailer. Artic didn't give enough room in the process and started to pull in before being clear, drifting closer and closer until the options were go under the wheels of the trailer or take a dive. He took the dive saving his life but suffered an unstable fracture of the cheekbone, broken jaw, collarbone and a rib or two. As above could have been worse, but ultimately unnecessary injuries caused by carelessness by the trucker.

irishmotorist

Lumen wrote: »

It really isn't lethal. Trucks can't move sideways.

You just need to make sure you have an contingency plan, like you should always do with cycling and driving.

None of which diminishes the tragic loss of life in this instance.

I'd be of the opinion that they can move sideways. If you're half way along a truck and the cab moves towards the kerb, the trailer (or rest of the truck) is gonna follow suit. If you're beside a car, you have the option of stopping and the threat being nearly instantly gone. With a long truck, (with stickey out bits out the side too), you don't have quite the same timeframe luxury.

You're right though - contingency plan is what you need e.g. either place yourself in front of the truck or behind it, but not keeping pace beside it for a prolonged time.

Lumen

irishmotorist wrote: »

I'd be of the opinion that they can move sideways. If you're half way along a truck and the cab moves towards the kerb, the trailer (or rest of the truck) is gonna follow suit.

In the frame of reference of a fixed-speed bicycle, the truck may appear to move sideways, but in the frame of reference of the road it doesn't. The back wheels just follow the front.

In practice this means that unless you are undertaking a truck at <20kph you can just slam the anchors on and watch it glide in front of you.

If you're undertaking a truck at >20kph you're suicidal.

If you're being overtaken by a truck there's no issue, since you'll be a distance from from the kerb which gives you room to manouvre.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

In the frame of reference of a fixed-speed bicycle, the truck may appear to move sideways, but in the frame of reference of the road it doesn't. The back wheels just follow the front.

But the back wheels don't turn like the front wheels, so it's not a perfect translation. I think I'm getting this totally wrong, but for a long vehicle, there is a reason they can clip kerbs when turning and have to swing wide. I think it's the lack of all wheel steering.

I'll shut up now :rolleyes:

Chips Lovell

This is pretty interesting. My rule of thumb has always been don't go up the inside of a truck or bus and, if you find yourself being overtaken by one and running out of room, then jam on the brakes. It's counterintuitive, but as Lumen points out, trucks can't move sideways. But, and here's where my physics lets me down, does a truck having an articulated container make any difference, i.e. can it get closer to you than the cab?

lafors

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

This is a bit unusual as the article describes "...an articulated truck with no trailer attached", i.e., just the tractor unit. Most of these accidents involve trailers, where the turning arc is tighter than that of the tractor.

My sympathies to the family, a terrible way to go.

Very true, but it shows the drivers are so high up its hard for them to see you whether they have a trailer on or not.
Here's a short article and the video from it (the link in the article is dead).

http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/53/article4.html
Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgzsxgrryEQ
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARYZR5t6l4

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

But the back wheels don't turn like the front wheels, so it's not a perfect translation. I think I'm getting this totally wrong, but for a long vehicle, there is a reason they can clip kerbs when turning and have to swing wide.

Fair enough. There is one specific scenario where both continuing at constant speed and braking to a standstill may get you run over, which is when you happen to be within the wheelbase at the apex of a turn where a turning truck clips a kerb.

In this case bailing spectacularly leftwards is the only option.

Obviously undertaking a moving truck at a left junction is not a good idea, but the most common case in city traffic is undertaking a truck in stopped traffic where the exit is clear, the TED is about 5 seconds and there's no chance of getting swiped.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

...when you happen to be within the wheelbase at the apex of a turn where a turning truck clips a kerb.

What's that in plain English?

Amalgam

You do see a lot of kerb nipping in Dublin, particularly T---- trucks. Very sad event.

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

What's that in plain English?

Traffic is moving at 10kph. You are moving at 20kph in the cycle lane. You are perhaps 5-10m from the junction, about midway along a truck, when it starts a poorly planned unindicated left turn which is likely to involve it rolling over the kerb with it's back wheel.

What do you do?

If you slam on the brakes you'll be parked where the back wheels are headed. If you continue on you may cycle into the cab, or the midsection of the trailer body as it cuts across the turn.

Jip

There's also the issue of the overhang on the back of a long truck, nearly caught me out one morning years ago. Came up behind a curtain side truck, not an artic, which was indicating to turn right. There was a car parked to me left but I could see there was plenty of traffic coming towards us so guessed I'd be ok. The thought never even entered my mind that the next car would flash the truck, so as I was along side it turned right but the overhang on its arse came scarily close. Lesson learned by me.

ROK ON

el tonto wrote: »

This is pretty interesting. My rule of thumb has always been don't go up the inside of a truck or bus and, if you find yourself being overtaken by one and running out of room, then jam on the brakes. It's counterintuitive, but as Lumen points out, trucks can't move sideways. But, and here's where my physics lets me down, does a truck having an articulated container make any difference, i.e. can it get closer to you than the cab?

Yes it ca get closer. Down to the length of the trailor versus the truck.
Truck part turn on a 90degree turn leaving plenty of room for a vehicle of its size (just the truck to turn). The trailer being 2-3 times longer needs to take a wider turn to effect the same amount of space on the left hand side. However the trailer cant turn independently of the truck.

As dirk said, unless the cab part goes very wide then the trailer cant turn w/o the road available on the inside narrowing.

I always try to pass trucks on the outside, but sometimes when they overtake you the problems arise. If I can I usually just slow/stop.

cdaly_

More specifically, the turning circle of the rear wheels of a vehicle is smaller that that of the front wheels. The consequence of this is that the front wheel of a turning vehicle can miss you while the rear wheel runs over you.

This is true of all vehicles but it only really matters when the vehicle is long enough.

ROK ON

There are many cities where trucks with trailors are banned completely or banned from say from morning to evening.
The same should be brought into law in Ireland.
The current law is a joke. It doesnt matter how many axels a truck has. 3 axels are probably as dangerous to cyclist as 5 or more.

The driver in the above case said it all when he claimed that he just did not see the cyclist (whether he was looking or not would be interesting).
Reality is that truck drivers have many blind spots. They shouldnt be in urban areas for most of the day IMO, and where cyclist encounter them, it is up to the cyclist to look out for themselves. I try to always assume that the driver of a truck just cant see me, and hope to take the necessary precautions.

Lumen

cdaly_ wrote: »

More specifically, the turning circle of the rear wheels of a vehicle is smaller that that of the front wheels. The consequence of this is that the front wheel of a turning vehicle can miss you while the rear wheel runs over you.

This is true of all vehicles but it only really matters when the vehicle is long enough.

And it only really matters when the turn is tight enough, i.e. at a junction.

ROK ON

Lumen wrote: »

And it only really matters when the turn is tight enough, i.e. at a junction.

Too difficult to say. It only matters when you have a combination of truck driver that has not gven sufficient space to a cyclist that is travelling inside.