Eircon Beware of this one.

Discodog

I took up an Eircon contract about 8 months ago. The contracts run for 6 months. My broadband speed was slow so I complained. Nice engineer says we can upgrade you to 6mb so I say yes.

Now in response to costs & Eircon's decision to censor the net regarding Piratebay I decide to switch suppliers. Eircon claim that my decision to accept their upgrade instigated a new contract & Comreg agreed with Eircon.

I insist that Eircon send me a copy of the specific term in their T&C's that covers this. They refuse. I say that I will not pay any further bills & will take them to Court.

Today I get a very apologetic email from Eircon saying how it has all been a big misunderstanding by their customer services, that I can switch suppliers at any time & that my case will be used for future training.

Btw Eircon currently have reps in my area offering people €150 off their bill if they return to Eircon yet us hard pressed existing customers are offered bugger all !

jor el

Discodog wrote: »

Comreg agreed with Eircon.

You expected anything else of eirComreg?

hightower1

What is it with people thinking because they are existing customers they deserve more?

ISP's are not your buddy or missus, their not your corner shop that'll allow you services on thick or know you personally?
Their a major company.... built on rules and systems not "how good you've been to them".

Your a number to them and thats the only way they can work, if you want a personalised friendly "corner shop" style service then fund an isp with a handfull of subscribers then they can call you by first name and get to know how good you are... mind it'll mean paying thousands for the connection a month.


There is a premium mobile service you can buy, their customer service is a direct line answered right away everytime. they help with anything you need no matter where in the world you are and even will help with local questions you have "where's the nearest limo service" type stuff. That level of customer service is great ....... their cheapest connection is around 10,500USD per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertu

Discodog

The attitude of your post sums up why some businesses will be in the recession for a long time. Existing customers are the lifeblood of any business. All one has to do is look after existing customers then you don't have to worry about the competition stealing them.

New customers cost a fortune to get whilst existing customers are free. Your analogy is ridiculous in that basic good customer service does not cost a fortune. If Eircom gave their existing customers a good deal they wouldn't be having to pay a bribe of €150 each to win them back.

If Eircon had not tried to screw me & also not made the decision that they would decide which websites I can view, I would still be a customer. They would be getting money from me instead of someone else getting it.

In Ireland we have grown used to total rip off & crap customer service. Now we have a chance to do something about it.

Greyfox

Discodog wrote: »

All one has to do is look after existing customers then you don't have to worry about the competition stealing them.

good customer service does not cost a fortune

The reason your not offered a cheaper deal is because no one sales agent will get any commission for keeping you so theirs no point in any sales agent offering you anything, it would be different if you were a business offering a worthwhile monthly revenue.

Actually it does not make economical sense for any ISP to have good customer service as to give proper training for the tens of thousands of variations of things that go wrong would be far too expensive, the fact is your average ISP makes very little profit from having one customer and the quality of their customer care reflects this

Discodog

Well Eircon's profits may not dip just because of me but if enough people cared about customer service then they might. Maybe you are right in that it's cheaper to get new customers than bother to look after existing customers. I can think of a few local businesses who followed that route when times were good. I can think of a major car dealer who told me that he "hadn't looked after the little guy". Too late now he has gone bust

If an ISP was honest & said that "we will give you the best price but the customer service will be crap" that would be a different matter but we already pay the highest prices for a lousy service.

Ranicand

Discodog wrote: »

The attitude of your post sums up why some businesses will be in the recession for a long time. Existing customers are the lifeblood of any business. All one has to do is look after existing customers then you don't have to worry about the competition stealing them.

New customers cost a fortune to get whilst existing customers are free. Your analogy is ridiculous in that basic good customer service does not cost a fortune. If Eircom gave their existing customers a good deal they wouldn't be having to pay a bribe of €150 each to win them back.

If Eircon had not tried to screw me & also not made the decision that they would decide which websites I can view, I would still be a customer. They would be getting money from me instead of someone else getting it.

In Ireland we have grown used to total rip off & crap customer service. Now we have a chance to do something about it.

I am with UPC a company which I lost it with here a short time ago.
My broadband was crap for over a week and my HD television service had a sound problem.

My problems were sorted in the end after much frustration.

Never in all that time did I consider returning to Eircom .

What has happened in this country is pure greed and corruption.

Eircom was sold for a profit or as the result of a bribe and then resold and has since been run into the ground.

UPC a private company has taken the place the former state company had as in if you don't like them your choices are limited.

The big 3 we have to deal with for media are SKY EIRCOM and UPC and I could not score any of them high.

UPC are morons just like the other two but in my book they win because they have never been rude to me.

People should not pick sides if Eircom picked up their game and offered a reliable tipple play service at a good price I would jump ship and I am sure UPC would respond along with SKY that is how competition should work.

MagicMarker

Eircom.

Moving on, it's well known that a change in your service means the start of a new contract.

To be honest, I don't know what the fúck you're complaining about seeing they sent you an apology!

FFS, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

daithimac

I gotta say the first thing I got from reading the op's post was the pungent stink of obnoxiousness. pay for the service and if you don't get it move on but comming on a site and bitching like a little girl and changing M to N in eircoMs name just makes you look bad.

Ranicand

daithimac wrote: »

I gotta say the first thing I got from reading the op's post was the pungent stink of obnoxiousness. pay for the service and if you don't get it move on but comming on a site and bitching like a little girl and changing M to N in eircoMs name just makes you look bad.

Rubbish and shame on your post EircoN tried to trap him with a term and condition that he did not sign.

Look up the dictionary and look up the word Con it seems like eircoNs name is well deserved in this instance.

Discodog

The reason that I used the tern Eircon was because they & Comreg lied to me in a series of emails & then had to admit that they were wrong. Their lie would of cost me money. Changing your service does not mean a new contract as Eircon have finally admitted.

If they have tried to force me to stay with them they are bound to of tried the same stunt on others. Now forgive me for complaining. I forgot that this is Ireland where we have been programmed to grin & bear it.

As for the "little girl" remarks well that alone says a great deal about you.

MagicMarker

Ranicand wrote: »

Rubbish and shame on your post EircoN tried to trap him with a term and condition that he did not sign.

Look up the dictionary and look up the word Con it seems like eircoNs name is well deserved in this instance.

As unfair as it may be, he didn't have to sign anything. He agreed to a new service thereby he agreed to a new contract. Once again, this is a moot point seeing as EircoM apologised.

Ranicand

Discodog wrote: »

The reason that I used the tern Eircon was because they & Comreg lied to me in a series of emails & then had to admit that they were wrong. Their lie would of cost me money. Changing your service does not mean a new contract as Eircon have finally admitted.

If they have tried to force me to stay with them they are bound to of tried the same stunt on others. Now forgive me for complaining. I forgot that this is Ireland where we have been programmed to grin & bear it.

As for the "little girl" remarks well that alone says a great deal about you.

Unless you acknowledge my post defending you I may agree with him.:D

Ranicand

MagicMarker wrote: »

As unfair as it may be, he didn't have to sign anything. He agreed to a new service thereby he agreed to a new contract. Once again, this is a moot point seeing as EircoM apologised.

After a threat of court.:rolleyes:

Ranicand

Also the OPs post is a warning to others not a bitch feast.

Discodog

MagicMarker wrote: »

As unfair as it may be, he didn't have to sign anything. He agreed to a new service thereby he agreed to a new contract. Once again, this is a moot point seeing as EircoM apologised.

You don't HAVE to sign anything !. When did you last get a service from Eircom ?. To reiterate less anyone misreads this: Changing your broadband speed, changing your family & friend numbers etc does not constitute a new contract & does not tie you to Eircon for a further 6 months.

daithimac

I'd be interested to see the text of the apology from EircoM. Somehow I get the feeling the words "as a special matter" will be there somewhere.

dub45

Discodog wrote: »

You don't HAVE to sign anything !. When did you last get a service from Eircom ?. To reiterate less anyone misreads this: Changing your broadband speed, changing your family & friend numbers etc does not constitute a new contract & does not tie you to Eircon for a further 6 months.

Be careful because this is not the case with all isps. So if you wish to change your speed you should clarify with your isp how this affects your contract with them before you commit to any change.

MagicMarker

Discodog wrote: »

You don't HAVE to sign anything !. When did you last get a service from Eircom ?. To reiterate less anyone misreads this: Changing your broadband speed, changing your family & friend numbers etc does not constitute a new contract & does not tie you to Eircon for a further 6 months.

I still don't believe this, and won't until you back it up. As far as I know a change in service, as in an increase or decrease in broadband speeds includes a new contract, as far as I am aware this is the same for all ISPs.

hightower1

Ranicand wrote: »

UPC are morons just like the other two but in my book they win because they have never been rude to me.

So they were polite to you but yet you still call them morons... your attitude to these PEOPLE on the other end of the phone is ignorant. Listen to the way you talk about them? I would imagine its just a matter of time that they are rude back to you. You do realize UPC staff have been known to be on here???.... I feel for PEOPLE working in a call center I really do and having to put up with abusive arrogance like yours.

I highlight PEOPLE as you seem to have lost sight of that up your own a**e.:rolleyes:

Discodog

As requested:

From Eircom

I am writing to you as requested in response to your recent complaint to Comreg regarding the eircom terms and conditions.I would like to confirm that there is no new contract for BB upgrades once you are already in a contract. i.e. if you are four monthsinto your contract and you wish to upgrade to another pack ie from 1mb to 7mb you still only have two months left of your contract. Once your six months contract is up you can move within packages at any time which will not enter you into a new contact. I understand that you have been previously misinformed and I would like to apologised on behalf of the company for any inconveniences caused. I have now flagged this matter and it will be used as a training exercise. Should you have any further queries please contact me directly.

with thanks

Annmarie Heeney
Comreg Escalations Manager
Customer Care
01-7012067

This is a direct copy & paste complete with typos !. I wonder if the training exercise will include typing ?

If the doubter's PM their email addresses I will copy the Eircom Mail complete with headers etc.

Ranicand

hightower1 wrote: »

So they were polite to you but yet you still call them morons... your attitude to these PEOPLE on the other end of the phone is ignorant. Listen to the way you talk about them? I would imagine its just a matter of time that they are rude back to you. You do realize UPC staff have been known to be on here???.... I feel for PEOPLE working in a call center I really do and having to put up with abusive arrogance like yours.

I highlight PEOPLE as you seem to have lost sight of that up your own a**e.:rolleyes:

Never rude on the phone only vent on here.

Not even talking about call center either.

TV 3 TG4 3 e plus UPC info channel itself do not have the correct widescreen settings.

History HD frozen for ages the other night.

Sometimes if a channel goes blank it is left that way for the night.

10 euro downgrade fee.

All of the above create a bad impression and me calling is moronic is kind because it could be UPC just don't care.

Kev.

Cant believe some people in this thread are picking up for Eircom......


Really some people......

Discodog

Eircon have their faults but the main point of my thread is don't just believe what you are told. Eircon & Comreg both told me that it was "in the terms & conditions". I asked Eircon to forward a copy of the specific condition & they could not, because it didn't exist.

Eircon have an interesting T&C in that they say that "accessing their website indicates an acceptance of their terms & conditions". This is an unfair & unreasonable condition which could easily be challenged. After all you have to access their site to read the T&C's in the first place !.

I certainly don't think that any of the other ISP's are much better & I am having difficulty in getting information from any of them, to assist my choice. My main gripe against Eircon is their decision to censor the internet. It is amazing that everyone is up in arms when countries like China restrict site access yet we allow Eircon to behave in the same way.

Ireland is still in the dark ages when it comes to consumer rights & protection. Fortunately European law is starting to fill in the gaps but many Irish suppliers still believe that they make the rules. I wonder how many people shop in B&Q because of their "no quibble" return policy ?.

hightower1

Discodog wrote: »

My main gripe against Eircon is their decision to censor the internet. It is amazing that everyone is up in arms when countries like China restrict site access yet we allow Eircon to behave in the same way.

Are you seriously comparing the oppression of one of the worlds largest bodies of people under a communistical regime in which basic human rights let alone human dignity is crushed every day... where the oppresion of women, children and men occus on a daily basis to eircom stoping your connection to pirate bay! My god thats almost disgusting that you even rate the two in the same leauge.

r_obric

who do people see only one side of the argument.

Eircom blocked pirate bay, so that means than people cant get downloads for free, which they should be paying for, isnt it the same as being barred from HMV because you are caught stealing from there before.

Kev.

r_obric wrote: »

who do people see only one side of the argument.

Eircom blocked pirate bay, so that means than people cant get downloads for free, which they should be paying for, isnt it the same as being barred from HMV because you are caught stealing from there before.

You like Eircom dont you ?

Mikefitzs

Just from reading the start of this can I wish to ask a question or2. Did you move from Eircom because of their new policy on Piratebay usage? If your new ISP brings in the same policy will you be tied into a contract there also? Personally I am waiting for a few months to see if the other ISP's follow Eircom before switching.

Discodog

I have no problem with Eircom (gosh spelt it right just to give everyone a happy weekend) or any other ISP provided that they tell me, before I agree to a contract, that they will lie or block my access to internet sites.

I am on the side of the musicians regarding free downloads & I have never used Piratebay but I totally object to an ISP deciding which site I can log on to. Who appointed them as Net Police ?. But before one signs up with Eircom or any other ISP one has the right to know how they will manage one's account.

Maybe your tower is a touch too high if you think that I am comparing Eircom to The Peoples Republic but Eircom were one of the first to jump in & block PB. The fact that Black Internet have now appealed the Swedish Court decision is a credit to them & shows that Eircom were very premature.

We are all able to post our views here & Boards have rightfully resisted pressure from certain companies to impose censorship. Once ISP's set a precedent how long will it be before they start trying to close access to other sites ?.

Mikefitz you have a good point. I am still with Eircom but I intend to get written answers from any ISP that I consider joining regarding censorship. Cost is a factor - I can save a lot but privacy & censorship matter more to me. For example some ISP's (including Eircom ?) will provide details to the authorities without a warrant.

Morlar

I got a flyer off them today, & just got off the phone with them. Free line rental for 10 months, after that it is €20 per month more expensive than Ntl and for a slower speed (eircom 7mb as opposed to Ntl 10mb price).

I did not know they were blocking sites too. I don't user pirate bay but if they are blocking it then I will go with ntl on principle.

Discodog

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/record-biz-tries-suing-irish-isps-into-submission.ars

This article suggests that Eircom may of made a big gaff in that they have assumed that other ISP's would follow their lead. It appears that the majority will not & Eircom could lose business.

hightower1

Discodog wrote: »

Eircon have their faults but the main point of my thread is don't just believe what you are told. Eircon & Comreg both told me that it was "in the terms & conditions". I asked Eircon to forward a copy of the specific condition & they could not, because it didn't exist.

Eircon have an interesting T&C in that they say that "accessing their website indicates an acceptance of their terms & conditions". This is an unfair & unreasonable condition which could easily be challenged. After all you have to access their site to read the T&C's in the first place !.

I certainly don't think that any of the other ISP's are much better & I am having difficulty in getting information from any of them, to assist my choice. My main gripe against Eircon is their decision to censor the internet. It is amazing that everyone is up in arms when countries like China restrict site access yet we allow Eircon to behave in the same way.

Ireland is still in the dark ages when it comes to consumer rights & protection. Fortunately European law is starting to fill in the gaps but many Irish suppliers still believe that they make the rules. I wonder how many people shop in B&Q because of their "no quibble" return policy ?.

The fact that there are no "net police" made the the next best thing. Who else were better suited to stop copyright thiefs like Pirate bay and their users? Censorship implies a tyrannical body cracking down on legitimate peoples or groups... pirate bay was not legit hence the court ruling.

If there was some fancy lol "net police" and they stopped access everyone would whinge about them too with some other half baked notion of self delusional robin hood syndrome. I have no love for eircom but blocking pirate bay was the right thing to do morally more so that it may loose them business.

Discodog

If Eircom want to decide which sites their customers can view they should tell us BEFORE we sign up. Lets have Eircom Ads where they explain that they have blocked a site when practically everyone one else has not. For example UPC have made it clear that they will fight any ban. Eircom should also tell us that they have instigated a three strikes & your out program for illegal downloads BEFORE we sign up. What actually happens is Eircom make these decisions & we either have to agree with them or break our contract.

The older conservative internet user may not object. Some may applaud their actions & a lot of people may take exception & go elsewhere. Eircom are going to look total idiots if Black win their appeal. In any event many European countries have already decided that Internet censorship is totally unacceptable.

Eircom censor the most & charge the most - a great recipe for success.

Geff

www.hidemyass.com

Sorted.

hightower1

Geff wrote: »

www.hidemyass.com

Sorted.

Ok...Geff.... your going to use an online proxy ..... to block your details from....drum roll..... the people giving you access to the online proxy.

FAIL.


Discodog:
Why would an ISP advertise a shortcoming as opposed to another ISP? UPC have gone on record as saying they wont block sites and they still wont run ads saying so. There is no point. The average net user in Ireland is completely unaware of the whole thing so why even bring it up in an advert? Even if they were all aware why again I say would you advertise a shortfall????? That goes against the whole point of advertising. I would be sure the way eircom are thinking that if you use pirate bay in Ireland you will be already aware that Eircom are not allowing access to this and if your thinking of signing up you will ask. Also I am sure if you wanted out of contract with eircom ref this you can do so with no penalty. Call eircom and find out.

animaal

hightower1 wrote: »

Ok...Geff.... your going to use an online proxy ..... to block your details from....drum roll..... the people giving you access to the online proxy.

FAIL.

Erm - the online proxy will encrypt your communications such as to make it impossible for your ISP to see anything other than an encrypted connection to that proxy. It will also allow you access to any site that the ISP is trying to block.

drum roll... that's good enough for some people.

PASS.

hightower1

OMG you actually havet the first one buddy.
Online proxy will block info ONLY for the receiving end of the connection not the person supplying your connection... all the packets being sent from the connection are passing through your ISP... by your logic you connect to a proxy the proxy then serves as some kind of online connection! lol. thats ridiculous, your proxy is blocking info ...yes.... where is that info flowing through???
Your idea of a proxy is a VPN which even so the last and first leg of a VPN is your isp. How else do you connect to it? All Eircom need to is monitor the packets coming from the proxy return path and responding packets back to this.

Discodog

Hightower are you really suggesting that anyone has an instant way out of a contract because Eircom has banned Pirate Bay........FAIL !

The T&C's actually cover this in that Eircom say that they will not allow "illegal activity" which means that they will have to disconnect half of their subscribers. As for mentioning it in ads well maybe not but they should certainly point it out before you sign especially as it is something unique to them.

Gosh I wish that I was an expert on this Proxy business. But it does seem strange that people will pay up to €100 per month for protection, that according to you may be useless.

To me this is all about SP's attitudes in whether they want to be the first out of the blocks to instigate bans etc or whether they will only do so if forced to.

Now will a Proxy expert please post & referee this argument as I would like to know who is right.

By the way Animaal I would either change your screen name or hide as Hightower is into weaponry including grenade launchers !. That should test if we are being monitored.

hightower1

Discodog wrote: »

Hightower are you really suggesting that anyone has an instant way out of a contract because Eircom has banned Pirate Bay........FAIL !

The T&C's actually cover this in that Eircom say that they will not allow "illegal activity" which means that they will have to disconnect half of their subscribers. As for mentioning it in ads well maybe not but they should certainly point it out before you sign especially as it is something unique to them.

Gosh I wish that I was an expert on this Proxy business. But it does seem strange that people will pay up to €100 per month for protection, that according to you may be useless.

To me this is all about SP's attitudes in whether they want to be the first out of the blocks to instigate bans etc or whether they will only do so if forced to.

Now will a Proxy expert please post & referee this argument as I would like to know who is right.

By the way Animaal I would either change your screen name or hide as Hightower is into weaponry including grenade launchers !. That should test if we are being monitored.

On getting out of contract with eircom I suggested it may be poss but to call Eircom and find out. What have you got to loose?

In ref to the proxy, they are not useless far from it but for the purposes of trying hide info from your isp they are in that sense and also discussion on how to circumvent your ISP's practices are against boards rules.

Also discodog , in ref to grenade launchers this shows more instances of your half information and should visit the boards airsoft section...http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=830
Get yourself more informed before trying to advise others ya. Note howits not titled as "boards international weapons dealing section" ... you clearly know your stuff lol
And in relation to "ISP monitoring" if you read what you quote you will see I have stated it is poss for an ISP to monitor packets .... if you knew anything in depth you would know this is not as simplified as cracking open a packet and seeing text lol, packets need to be arranged in correct order with correct coding for it to be recognizable ...what they can do is monitor the packet types eg...jpeg, mpeg, mp4 etc.
So I will say again.... learn what you are talking about before giving "advice"

Discodog

I am intrigued how trying to circumvent an ISP's practises would be against board rules - please elucidate. As for your grenade launcher we all know that the Airsoft forum is a cover for terrorists !

Regarding "getting more informed". If you read my posts you would know that I am already out of my Eircom contract so advice from you on how to end it is unnecessary.

jor el

A proxy, like the one mentioned, will encrypt all data passing between your computer and the proxy server, rendering your ISP unable to see what's being sent or received.

Using a proxy is not illegal, or in breech of ISP terms, though you are passing everything you do to the owner of the proxy, which raises privacy concerns in itself.

hightower1

A web proxy will not hide packets from an ISP. ONLY a firewall to encrypt packet transmission would truly hide this information.

You enter www.piratebay.org to a proxy.... how do those packets get form your browser to the proxy???? ISP.

From the proxy to pirate bay.. now they cant see who you are as it will only see the middleman server i.e proxy...

Piratebay transmit packets back to proxy...

Now the proxy transmits back to you those same packets..how... over your ISP connection. These packets can be intercepted at a UBR and flagged.

Proxies will help you stay private to anyone on the receiving end of a packet but when you receive back you are not private as you still need to use the ISP to access these. Look at it this way, if it hid you from the isp and the proxy used your ip to send packets back to... they'd never reach you. That wouldn't be a very good online proxy now would it.

Not to say an ISP will monitor every connection, thats stupid BUT they surely will monitor high use. As most torrenters are inherently greedy this will show up and then can spark ISP interest and packet investigation.

There ARE ways to keep any packet enclosed and only reveal the destination IP address ... in laymans terms sealing the envelope completely with the address the only thing visible as opposed to now in which the letter is blank and the address is inside so mr.postman has to open the letter and get the address also allowing access to anything contained there in.


In terms of using online or offline wares to suggest circumventing ISP terms and conditions hence breach of contract is against boards rules seeing as anyone form an ISP or and ISP employee could be directed to a page like this where a registered user is clearly suggesting a possible way (all be it misguidedly) on how to breach their contact. In short boards would be a place publicly seen as hosting and endorsing breach of contract. This is why boards dont allow this.... also can be seen in the cable and tv forum for examples.

Also backed up by the forum charter here....-No Warez, Hackz, Appz, Crackz or copyright Movies or TV shows (advice/sourcing or discussion via bittorrent or otherwise)http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055167684

animaal

hightower1 wrote: »

A web proxy will not hide packets from an ISP. ONLY a firewall to encrypt packet transmission would truly hide this information.

Yes, that's right. But the specific service mentioned above (hidemyass) isn't a plain HTTP proxy. It does, as you mentioned above, claim to use a VPN client.

Firewalls can support encryption and proxying, but you don't need a firewall to use either.

Nick_oliveri

hightower1 wrote: »

In terms of using online or offline wares to suggest circumventing ISP terms and conditions hence breach of contract is against boards rules seeing as anyone form an ISP or and ISP employee could be directed to a page like this where a registered user is clearly suggesting a possible way (all be it misguidedly) on how to breach their contact. In short boards would be a place publicly seen as hosting and endorsing breach of contract. This is why boards dont allow this.... also can be seen in the cable and tv forum for examples.

Report the thread so, to the mods and to Eircom, if you are so bothered about it.

eircom in compliance with the Order has agreed that access to the website the PirateBay.org, its related domain names, IP addresses and URLs from the eircom network will be blocked indefinitely from the 1st September 2009.

eircom would like to reassure customers that:
eircom will not monitor customer’s activities at any stage, nor will it place any monitoring equipment or software on its network in order to facilitate this block.
eircom will not provide personal details or any information relating to customers to any third party, including the record companies.

ETA: Hightower, find me where it says that circumventing this block breaches "their contract".