HSE Pay Rise - Madness

advise12345

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0929/partnership.html

SIPTU serves 3.5% pay claim on HSE

The grades affected range from porters and catering staff to radiographers and nurses.


The absolute cheek of them to demand a pay rise. How dare they. This is outrageous. Have they any idea what is happening in this country

Private sector workers are losing they're jobs left right and centre and those remaining are gladly taking 15 - 20% paycuts and this shower of useless lazy scroungers are looking for a 3.5% pay rise. How dare they.


Enough is Enough. For far too long this country has bowed to public sector unions. Now is the time to kick them into touch with public feeling.

Michael o Leary please take over the HSE and kick it into touch

Charisma

Not all public servants are the same no more than all private sector workers. The work we do varies greatly. A lot of public servants are low grade clerical staff and earn less than the national average wage. I know as I am one. We have already taken a pay cut via the pension levy & income levy and the stopping of our pay agreement and you will find most public servants have taken well over a ten percent paycut already this year. Also for a lot of public servants their hours have increased and in almost all admin/clerical/service areas staff are covering vacant posts due to the recruitment embargo even though we shouldnt. If we dont cover the work someone suffers so we do it. Most of us work very hard in conditions you would never see in the private sector. We are not all scroungers as you call us and I very much resent you slagging us off.

Sconsey

I kind of have my doubts that they expect to get the raise, probably the union throwing their weight around more than anything else, goes to show how out of touch the unions are. I would love to see the government tell the unions to go **** themselves.

Anyway I'd imagine this thread is better suited to the Politics >> Economy forum

leeroybrown

It's the opening gambit of a long drawn out pay negotiation. Modern Unions are largely there to do everything in their power to defend the pay and conditions of their current members even if its against the common good and even if it damages the conditions of other vulnerable employees. When you pare all the layers back they start looking like professional organisations hiding behind 'social justice'.

artful_codger

the good ole days of raiding the public purse is gone for the public service, they'll either get pay cuts in the next budget or Ireland will go bust and the IMF will come in, and, as Michael O'Leary says, they'll impose even bigger pay cuts.

good times ahead...

doolox

It probably is a show of strength to slow down further pay cuts. The 3% demand can be viewed as an opening move to forestall or mitigate further pay cuts which may have been in the finance ministers mind.

Otherwise the union leaders are completely out of touch with what is going on in the country, which I doubt.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

advise12345 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0929/partnership.html

SIPTU serves 3.5% pay claim on HSE

The grades affected range from porters and catering staff to radiographers and nurses.


The absolute cheek of them to demand a pay rise. How dare they. This is outrageous. Have they any idea what is happening in this country

Private sector workers are losing they're jobs left right and centre and those remaining are gladly taking 15 - 20% paycuts and this shower of useless lazy scroungers are looking for a 3.5% pay rise. How dare they.


Enough is Enough. For far too long this country has bowed to public sector unions. Now is the time to kick them into touch with public feeling.

Michael o Leary please take over the HSE and kick it into touch

Why people think michael o leary is some sort of economic god is beyond me... That man is useless. His main aim is profit, don't be disillusioned and think that he cares for his customers. FFS is it not obvious, (it is to most), that he is one greedy capatilist piece of crap? The only reason he has supported the yes side in the upcomming vote is because he will benifit from it. He doesn't care if ireland crashes and burns, once he makes a healthy profit from it.

Anyway, this pay rise was a part of an agreement made prior to the economic crises, now the scum in siptu are whinging about their "rights". Legally, they are correct, morally they are wrong. It's that simple.

Now lets not bash the public sector because you (plural) are begrudging jealous children, you guys would love to be in the public sector and do exactly what you give out about and get paid a nice wage for it too.

If anything bash siptu, the cheek of them to bring this forward, they are the ones pusing the workers to do what most deem as inapropiate. Blame the scum that is siptu not the workers.

If you were in their position you would join the band wagon too... I know I would.

phill106

Charisma wrote: »

A lot of public servants are low grade clerical staff and earn less than the national average wage.

Does that average factor in the 12% of the population unemployed? Or the huge amount of people now on 3 day week? Or working for free certain number of days a week now?

Doubt it

Accept the fact that you have a handy number, take the pay cuts that the rest of us have had to and suck it up. I know you didnt cause the mess, but neither did we. We all have to pull together.

the_syco

phill106 wrote: »

Does that average factor in the 12% of the population unemployed? Or the huge amount of people now on 3 day week? Or working for free certain number of days a week now?

Those unemployed don't work. The ones on a 3 day week can get money for the other 2 days they don't work. The ones who work for free are being taken advantage of, by greedy employers.

phill106 wrote: »

Accept the fact that you have a handy number

What a load of bo||ox. I've seen as many slackers in the private section, as there are in the public section. Although it's true that some clerical officers start at a nice wage, a lot also start off at €18k. Minus 10%, the levy, etc, and you're left with feck all. And you're expected to carry the slack of those who were laid off.

Go into your local dole office, and see how many people there are. They will have to do with what numbers there is.

Charisma

phill106 wrote: »

Does that average factor in the 12% of the population unemployed? Or the huge amount of people now on 3 day week? Or working for free certain number of days a week now?

Doubt it

Accept the fact that you have a handy number, take the pay cuts that the rest of us have had to and suck it up. I know you didnt cause the mess, but neither did we. We all have to pull together.

I never had the big money or the fancy cars or holidays when things were good in this country beause I could not pay for them on my wage. Now I am expeted to pay for the foolishness of others which is not fair. As I said the majority of public servants are on the lower rung of the pay ladder. My income has dropped by over 12% in the last year and my hubby is now on a 3 day week. I am now also covering 50% of a vacant post - free of charge. How much more do I have to pay for the stupidity of others who are walking away from the mess they created with HUGE pensions and golden handshakes. If my wages drops by 10% now I would get more going on the dole and getting all related benefits Thats how low lots of public servants are paid. As I said the majority of public servants are on the lower rung of the pay ladder. I dont want to leave the service but if it means keeping my house I will do it as will many others in my position. Then where will we be.

Sleepy

Charisma wrote: »

I dont want to leave the service but if it means keeping my house I will do it as will many others in my position. Then where will we be.

In the dole queue beside a lot of us who were working in the private sector.

Survey after survey shows that public sector wage levels are now higher than those in the private sector. TBH, I can see where the myth of huge salaries in the private sector came from having worked in a consultancy role where I was largely working for public sector clients. While you may see a consultant being billed out at or over a thousand euros a day, they earn nothing near that as the company billing them out must pay for all their support functions out of that revenue too... Yes, the CEO's / MD's / High Level Bankers were all ridiculously over-paid but the top-level public servants were (and are) excessively remunerated without even the possibility of firing them for under-performance...

weird

Charisma wrote: »

Not all public servants are the same no more than all private sector workers. The work we do varies greatly. A lot of public servants are low grade clerical staff and earn less than the national average wage. I know as I am one. We have already taken a pay cut via the pension levy & income levy and the stopping of our pay agreement and you will find most public servants have taken well over a ten percent paycut already this year. Also for a lot of public servants their hours have increased and in almost all admin/clerical/service areas staff are covering vacant posts due to the recruitment embargo even though we shouldnt. If we dont cover the work someone suffers so we do it. Most of us work very hard in conditions you would never see in the private sector. We are not all scroungers as you call us and I very much resent you slagging us off.

You're giving out because you make less than €32,000 per year? Some people don't have jobs or make anywhere near that much!

weird

artful_codger wrote: »

the good ole days of raiding the public purse is gone for the public service, they'll either get pay cuts in the next budget or Ireland will go bust and the IMF will come in, and, as Michael O'Leary says, they'll impose even bigger pay cuts.

good times ahead...

So sad to see such a helpful group of people be done over...

/sarcasm

mikemac

Charisma wrote: »

I dont want to leave the service but if it means keeping my house I will do it as will many others in my position. Then where will we be.

A smaller payroll anyway, that's where we will be. I'd say the goverment would prefer if you quit, no redunancy payment then

If you leave do you plan to get a better paid job? Or go on to dole? If you quit your job you are disqualifed from jobseekers benefit for nine weeks, that's a long time with no income.
How will quitting your job help you to keep your house?

Seriously, many(most) don't particulary like our jobs or bosses but be certain of your plan before you do something drastic.
If you quit you probably won't be replaced and it'll be harder then you think to get a new job.

Wishbone Ash

advise12345 wrote:

Now is the time to kick them into touch with public feeling.

You're forgetting that those several hundred thousand Public Sector workers are also part of the "public feeling". Almost every household in the country has Public Sector employees. They are also much more like to exercise their vote at elections than their Private Sector counterparts. Hence the Government's caution when kicking them into touch.

Jaziel Itchy Beaker wrote: »

Why people think michael o leary is some sort of economic god is beyond me... That man is useless. His main aim is profit, don't be disillusioned and think that he cares for his customers. FFS is it not obvious, (it is to most), that he is one greedy capatilist piece of crap? The only reason he has supported the yes side in the upcomming vote is because he will benifit from it. He doesn't care if ireland crashes and burns, once he makes a healthy profit from it

100% agree.

Jaziel Itchy Beaker wrote:

now the scum in siptu are whinging about their "rights". Legally, they are correct, morally they are wrong. It's that simple.

Now lets not bash the public sector because you (plural) are begrudging jealous children, you guys would love to be in the public sector and do exactly what you give out about and get paid a nice wage for it too.

If anything bash siptu, the cheek of them to bring this forward, they are the ones pusing the workers to do what most deem as inapropiate. Blame the scum that is siptu not the workers.

The union leadership takes it's cue from the feeling of it's membership. You seem to be unaware that you are referring to the thousands of members of SIPTU as 'scum'. That's a bit unfair to many ordinary decent people . These people have an entitlement under the constitution to be a member of a trade union.

Whatever you think of the SIPTU leadership, you have to remember that they are doing their job in fighting for their members. I'm sure you do your job well but would you expect to be referred to as 'scum' for doing so

(BTW - I'm not a member of SIPTU)

Sleepy wrote: »

Survey after survey shows that public sector wage levels are now higher than those in the private sector

A lot of those surveys are not comparing like with like. In many sectors of the Public Service, no comparison can be made with the private sector. There are no private Gardai, prison officers, military, firefighters etc.

There are nurses and teachers in the private sector but they get the going rate negotiated and set by Dept of Health/Education and therefore are similar.

common_parlance

Charisma wrote: »

A lot of public servants are low grade clerical staff and earn less than the national average wage. I know as I am one.

I hate to break it to you, but that's kind of how an average is supposed to work; if everyone were above the average... well then the average would be higher.

If you're a low grade clerical worker, why should you be paid consdierably more than a regular minimum wage employee?

Wishbone Ash

common_parlance wrote: »

I hate to break it to you, but that's kind of how an average is supposed to work; if everyone were above the average... well then the average would be higher

I think she's making the point that a lot of Public Service employees earn less than the average industrial wage.

Sleepy

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A lot of those surveys are not comparing like with like. In many sectors of the Public Service, no comparison can be made with the private sector. There are no private Gardai, prison officers, military, firefighters etc.

Funny, there was no mention of this when 'benchmarking' staffs wages upwards...

The salaries which can be compared easily do show a discrepancy in favour of the public sector, particularly when pension and other benefits are taken into account.

Wishbone Ash

Sleepy wrote: »

Funny, there was no mention of this when 'benchmarking' staffs wages upwards...

The benchmarking process only awarded increases to those in senior public service positions. The vast majority of those in 'ordinary' public service positions received no increase.

Kristopherus

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The benchmarking process only awarded increases to those in senior public service positions. The vast majority of those in 'ordinary' public service positions received no increase.

Thats the same benchmarking exercise that found that the vast majority of public servants had been earning less that employees in the privat e sector for years, and compensated the public service accordingly. Nobody from the private sector complained then. The first sign of problems in the that sector has the bloodhounds baying for public service blood. Shame on you :mad:

rom

weird wrote: »

You're giving out because you make less than €32,000 per year? Some people don't have jobs or make anywhere near that much!

I totally agree. Average means some people earn more, some people earn less than it. If you are on boards then you are probably not too close to retirement age so this is based on everyone not just people your age and if your young then the average could be a lot less.

Thinkingaboutit

Hospital porters don't have a hard life. A bit of security work, moving patients, some cleaning.

Eoin

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The union leadership takes it's cue from the feeling of it's membership. You seem to be unaware that you are referring to the thousands of members of SIPTU as 'scum'. That's a bit unfair to many ordinary decent people . These people have an entitlement under the constitution to be a member of a trade union.

Whatever you think of the SIPTU leadership, you have to remember that they are doing their job in fighting for their members. I'm sure you do your job well but would you expect to be referred to as 'scum' for doing so

Does that not cut both ways though? Surely the union members take advice from the union leadership on what a reasonable or appropriate course of action is.

InReality

leeroybrown wrote: »

It's the opening gambit of a long drawn out pay negotiation. Modern Unions are largely there to do everything in their power to defend the pay and conditions of their current members even if its against the common good and even if it damages the conditions of other vulnerable employees. When you pare all the layers back they start looking like professional organisations hiding behind 'social justice'.

Eh yes.
Why should unions be the ones concerned with the "common good" , even if such a thing could even be defined ?
Thats what a goverment is for.

Well the second point is more debatable.
Personally I would think unions would have more genuine concern about this than the other players in the area , i.e employer bodies and politicans.

tommy21

This pitting of the public vs. private sector is a political smokescreen in my opinion, designed to keep us at each others throats rather than an eye on the destruction the Government is causing. However I also think it is madness for anyone or any body, public or private, to be demanding an increase at this time. In a year maybe, but we reside in the eye of the storm currently, so its buckle down and wait it out. Just my two cents.

hoody

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

Hospital porters don't have a hard life. A bit of security work, moving patients, some cleaning.

Most hospitals have seperate security and cleaning staff. I wouldn't want either of those jobs, nor the one of a porter. Porters have to do a lot of heavy lifting, be it of patients or equipment, and also deal with all sorts of bodily fluids, exposure to infectious diseases, dealing with open wounds etc, not the kind of thing that I would associate with an easy life.