International Teams loosing touch

Stev_o

Planetrugby has a nice article about French plans to cap several Saffers who have now qualified for France on residency grounds (http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_5592829,00.html). What struck me more then anything about this article is the fact that we now have five of the major teams in the world, Australia, New Zealand, England and now France all using the residency rule to boost their international teams along with Italy.

Now this thread isn't about discussing the links between certain foreigners who have elected a different country as their own in place of the country of birth, it's about whether International Teams are beginning to slowly become into more high form of franchises. Poke around every major nation and you ll that nearly everyone including overselves (Tom Court) have used the residency rules to elevate a player into the national squad. What kind of image is this setting out for International teams at the moment and more important will this escalate in the future where the vast hordes of uncapped players in the English and French leagues will be used by the RFU and FFR.

Spore

Thats a horrifying prospect. I seriously hope the IRB look into changing this ridiculous rule. If I saw Ireland and other international teams truning into club-like franchises offering inducements to players to take up residencies I would turn off. Full stop. I just wouldn't buy into that kind of corporate shit. New Zealand are already taking the utter piss and for other teams to do the same it would destroy the game.

Amabokke

oh please,

The sooner some of you move on from "everyone to their own" and accept that global integration of different nationalities is good the quicker you'll enjoy rugby again. It makes it more interesting, more competetive and there is a huge learning curve between different cultures and how the game is played which benefit each other.

So the message send out is good and should encourage international teams to become more competitive by using foreign players/.

PTH2009

So Nick Williams and Mafi could play for Ireland Some Day.

WeeBushy

PTH2009 wrote: »

So Nick Williams and Mafi could play for Ireland Some Day.

Mafi can't as he's played sevens for NZ and we don't need Williams tbh, he's not good enough imo. Besides he's 26 now so wont qualify for under the residency rule untill he's 28/29.

Amazotheamazing

Stev_o wrote: »

Planetrugby has a nice article about French plans to cap several Saffers who have now qualified for France on residency grounds (http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_5592829,00.html). What struck me more then anything about this article is the fact that we now have five of the major teams in the world, Australia, New Zealand, England and now France all using the residency rule to boost their international teams along with Italy.

Now this thread isn't about discussing the links between certain foreigners who have elected a different country as their own in place of the country of birth, it's about whether International Teams are beginning to slowly become into more high form of franchises. Poke around every major nation and you ll that nearly everyone including overselves (Tom Court) have used the residency rules to elevate a player into the national squad. What kind of image is this setting out for International teams at the moment and more important will this escalate in the future where the vast hordes of uncapped players in the English and French leagues will be used by the RFU and FFR.

Court's father or grandfather is from Limerick, so he's always been Irish qualified. Iirc, he played for Ireland A before he played for Ulster, think his mother's family have some roots in Connacht too.

Amazotheamazing

Spore wrote: »

Thats a horrifying prospect. I seriously hope the IRB look into changing this ridiculous rule. If I saw Ireland and other international teams truning into club-like franchises offering inducements to players to take up residencies I would turn off. Full stop. I just wouldn't buy into that kind of corporate shit. New Zealand are already taking the utter piss and for other teams to do the same it would destroy the game.

Connacht's Brett Wilkinson is already in Irlsh squads on residency, and there's been suggestions that Leinster new player (Strauss) might have been signed for similar reasons.

toomevara

What I find fascinating about this is that the FFR feels its got to do this...What's happening to the French rugby conveyor belt? Huge player numbers, strong leagues and traditionally produces some of the games most naturally talented ball players, what's happening?

This mirrors a debate in French rugby League at the minute where three aussie players are being parachuted into the national squad for the upcoming 4n. Strange times, and ultimately, while I understand we live in a professional era, yada, yada, yada there's no question that this ultimately devalues the international game. Not a fan of it.

ScholesyIsGod

I don't have any major problems with it if a player is qualified to play for a country and he's good enough then it would be silly to leave him out. Although it would be interesting to see how the Pacific Island nations would do if the likes of Joe Rokocoko, Sivivatu, Muliaina and so on had to play for the countries they were born in.

At least these days players cant decide to play for one of the lesser nations anymore once they're not up to playing for their own country like they could in the past.

Spore

Amabokke wrote: »

oh please,

The sooner some of you move on from "everyone to their own" and accept that global integration of different nationalities is good the quicker you'll enjoy rugby again. It makes it more interesting, more competetive and there is a huge learning curve between different cultures and how the game is played which benefit each other.

So the message send out is good and should encourage international teams to become more competitive by using foreign players/.

No way. Personally I prefer the chinese wall effect of having two radically different tournaments competing in different hemispheres. For there to be a future of multinational teams playing a generic brand of rugby then everybody loses. To hell with that. I like my French Flair, English Beaf-Cakes, Saffer Bullies etc. etc. At least internationally there's some uniqueness of style unlike what's happening at club level.

Amazotheamazing

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

Although it would be interesting to see how the Pacific Island nations would do if the likes of Joe Rokocoko, Sivivatu, Muliaina and so on had to play for the countries they were born in.

At least these days players cant decide to play for one of the lesser nations anymore once they're not up to playing for their own country like they could in the past.

Or how we'd do if Heaslip and O'Gara had to play for the countries they were born in...

anonymous_joe

toomevara wrote: »

What I find fascinating about this is that the FFR feels its got to do this...What's happening to the French rugby conveyor belt? Huge player numbers, strong leagues and traditionally produces some of the games most naturally talented ball players, what's happening?

This mirrors a debate in French rugby League at the minute where three aussie players are being parachuted into the national squad for the upcoming 4n. Strange times, and ultimately, while I understand we live in a professional era, yada, yada, yada there's no question that this ultimately devalues the international game. Not a fan of it.

Impatience.

There will always be a South African player available for less with more experience, taking away the motivation to develop internally.

Spore

Spore wrote: »

Thats a horrifying prospect. I seriously hope the IRB look into changing this ridiculous rule. If I saw Ireland and other international teams truning into club-like franchises offering inducements to players to take up residencies I would turn off. Full stop. I just wouldn't buy into that kind of corporate shit. New Zealand are already taking the utter piss and for other teams to do the same it would destroy the game.

What bollox.
NZ island players are all born or else raised from a very very young age in NZ.

Sivivatu is the only exception because he came when he was 15 if Im right.

Also look at Fiji,Samoa and Tonga and you will realise alot of their players are born and bred Kiwis

Amabokke

Spore wrote: »

No way. Personally I prefer the chinese wall effect of having two radically different tournaments competing in different hemispheres. For there to be a future of multinational teams playing a generic brand of rugby then everybody loses. To hell with that. I like my French Flair, English Beaf-Cakes, Saffer Bullies etc. etc. At least internationally there's some uniqueness of style unlike what's happening at club level.

There will always be a future for rugby, regardless. International teams will still continue to play the way they do and foreign players will have to adapt to that gameplan.

A lot of people are complaining so much about international rugby being boring yet don't want to introduce ELVs and don't want to see this change now with foreign players

There will always be a South African player available for less with more experience, taking away the motivation to develop internally

It should'nt take away a local lad's motivation, in fact it will just encourage them to play better than the Saffa to earn their place. That will make teams more competitive if everyone fight's for a place and make rugby more interesting.

OldJay

Spore wrote: »

Thats a horrifying prospect. I seriously hope the IRB look into changing this ridiculous rule. If I saw Ireland and other international teams truning into club-like franchises offering inducements to players to take up residencies I would turn off. Full stop. I just wouldn't buy into that kind of corporate shit. New Zealand are already taking the utter piss and for other teams to do the same it would destroy the game.

Anyone who qualifies via heritage or residency to play for a country has as much right to declare for said country as any of its citizens.
If there is no switching between countries ie. a 'transfer market' then there is nothing for you to worry about.
If a player is good enough for the national squad then there is nothing worry about either. They have as much right to play for Ireland as hypothetically speaking, you do.

NZ is not "taking the p*ss". If someone is born outside a country, they should never be denied the ability to play for the country they've been brought up as a citizen in.

lobber

I don't think it was much of an issue down through the years for our soccer team to have English born players with slight family ties here representing Ireland. (But then again the domestic systems for producing soccer talent are very poor!!)

It shouldn't be an issue in places like France as there should always be a production line of quality domestic players coming through. Italy are notably vulnerable to having foreign players in their international ranks as they have a much smaller playing base and the short term goal of performing wins out over the long term of development.

Eligibility swings both ways. Nacewa, born and raised in NZ but Fijian, came on as a sub for fiji against scotland in rwc2003 before he made a name for himself in the super14, which put an end to his hopes of playing for new zealand. With no hope of playing for NZ he came to leinster...

Aidric

"loosing"

Anyways I'd agree with the sentiment of justind, spot on imo.

Anyone who qualifies via heritage or residency to play for a country has as much right to declare for said country as any of its citizens.
If there is no switching between countries ie. a 'transfer market' then there is nothing for you to worry about.

If a player is good enough for the national squad then there is nothing worry about either. They have as much right to play for Ireland as hypothetically speaking, you do.

If someone is born outside a country, they should never be denied the ability to play for the country they've been brought up as a citizen in.

Podge_irl

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Or how we'd do if Heaslip and O'Gara had to play for the countries they were born in...

Bit of a straw-man argument. Heaslip and O'Gara were both raised in Ireland. I don't know know the background to O'Gara, but Heaslip's parents were Irish and his dad was just in Israel on some military thing. Its not comparable to the situations being discussed here.

I think a residency rule is required, but I would prefer if it was 5 years rather than 3. If a player has been in a country for 5 years then I think they have mad a sufficient commitment to that country.

conf101

I don't really have a problem with a residency rule but I think it should be longer, 3 years just seems too short to me. Does anyone else think it's a bit weird that Riki Flutey was born in NZ, plays for England but plays his club rugby in France? Like I said, no problm with a residency rule and Flutey qualified under that rule so no beef with him but I think his type of situation is what we should be trying to avoid!

handsomecake

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

I don't have any major problems with it if a player is qualified to play for a country and he's good enough then it would be silly to leave him out. Although it would be interesting to see how the Pacific Island nations would do if the likes of Joe Rokocoko, Sivivatu, Muliaina and so on had to play for the countries they were born in.

At least these days players cant decide to play for one of the lesser nations anymore once they're not up to playing for their own country like they could in the past.

muliaina moved to invercargill when he was 2 years old.
rokocoko moved to new zealand when he was 5.
sivivatu moved to new zealand when he was 17.

now unless the new zealand rugby union are scouting players when they are toddlers your post is unreasonable.
people have a blinkered (and bitter ) view that new zealand rape and pillage these countries for quality players. this is not the case. most of these polynesians are economic migrants to new zealand looking for work and a better life. most of these players moved to new zealand before they ever even picked up a rugby ball. in the same way that the england cricket team has ,ravi bopara,ronnie irani etc we dont accuse them of robbing indian or pakistani players.there is a strong muslim,and oriental presence in england as it is and cricket is a favourite sport among them too.even look at the arcticle about the french football team below:
The French national football team has long reflected the ethnic diversity of the country. The first black player playing in the national team was Raoul Diagne in 1931, the son of the first African elected to the French National Assembly, Blaise Diagne. In the 1950s, the first French national team reaching international success with a semi-final at the World Cup 1958 already included many sons of immigrants such as Raymond Kopa, Roger Piantoni, Maryan Wisnieski and Bernard Chiarelli. This tradition continued through the 1980s, when such successful players as Michel Platini, Jean Tigana, Luis Fernández, Manuel Amoros or Eric Cantona all had foreign-born parents.
During the 1990s, the team was widely celebrated as an example of the modern multicultural French ideal.[2]On the 2006 French national team, 17 of the 23 players were members of racial minorities, including many of the most prominent players. The team featured players born in France's overseas departments and others who were immigrants or the children of immigrants from former French colonies. Zinédine Zidane is the child of an immigrant couple from Algeria; of the current squad Karim Benzema and Samir Nasri are also of Algerian origin. Vikash Dhorasoo — the first French player of Indo-Mauritian origin - played in the 2006 World Cup. Meanwhile, several players are of African and West Indian origin. Patrick Vieira immigrated as a child from Senegal, Bafétimbi Gomis has dual French-Senegalese nationality, and Claude Makélélé did likewise from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Lilian Thuram is from France's overseas department of Guadeloupe. Thierry Henry is the son of parents born in Guadeloupe and Martinique, while Louis Saha, Sylvain Wiltord, and Pascal Chimbonda all have parents who hail from Guadeloupe. Finally, Florent Malouda was born in French Guiana. The multiracial makeup of the team has at times provoked controversy. In recent years, critics on the far right of the French political spectrum have taken issue with the proportional underrepresentation of white Frenchmen on the team. National Front politician Jean-Marie Le Pen protested in 1998 that the Black, Blanc, Beur team that won the World Cup did not look sufficiently French.

what france are doing now is COMPLETELY different to what the allblacks do.they are getting blokes who have lived in the country for a few years to play for them.a bit like riki flutey ,i dont think they should be allowed do it.riki flutey is by no means english.
new zealands polynesians have been in the country nearly all their lives and for the most part have moved there.. before they ever took to a rugby field or even picked up a ball.

percy montgomery is actually namibian but nobody says south africa robbed him.firstly because he is white,and secondly because he is not a 20 stone adonis on the wing running in 20 tries a season.polynesians just tend to be bigger.percys family also moved to south africa for a better life etc but for some reason new zealand always get singled out as poachers

handsomecake

Podge_irl wrote: »

Bit of a straw-man argument. Heaslip and O'Gara were both raised in Ireland. I don't know know the background to O'Gara, but Heaslip's parents were Irish and his dad was just in Israel on some military thing. Its not comparable to the situations being discussed here.

I think a residency rule is required, but I would prefer if it was 5 years rather than 3. If a player has been in a country for 5 years then I think they have mad a sufficient commitment to that country.

all these polynesians in newzealand were all "raised" in new zealand and have lived their for well more then 5 years

handsomecake

Spore wrote: »

Thats a horrifying prospect. I seriously hope the IRB look into changing this ridiculous rule. If I saw Ireland and other international teams truning into club-like franchises offering inducements to players to take up residencies I would turn off. Full stop. I just wouldn't buy into that kind of corporate shit. New Zealand are already taking the utter piss and for other teams to do the same it would destroy the game.

ridiculous post

Amazotheamazing

handsomecake wrote: »

percy montgomery is actually namibian but nobody says south africa robbed him.firstly because he is white,and secondly because he is not a 20 stone adonis on the wing running in 20 tries a season.polynesians just tend to be bigger.percys family also moved to south africa for a better life etc but for some reason new zealand always get singled out as poachers

But when Percy was born, wasn't Namibia a protectorate of SA or something? Iirc, it wasn't out and out poaching. The Beast is a poach though, played underage for Zimbabwe.

handsomecake

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

But when Percy was born, wasn't Namibia a protectorate of SA or something? Iirc, it wasn't out and out poaching. The Beast is a poach though, played underage for Zimbabwe.

maybe so, my point is that its not as if henry hansen and smith are going over to these countries and hand picking rugby stars.
rokocoko had lived in new zealand for 21 years or something befor he was capped

anonymous_joe

Amabokke wrote: »

It should'nt take away a local lad's motivation, in fact it will just encourage them to play better than the Saffa to earn their place. That will make teams more competitive if everyone fight's for a place and make rugby more interesting.

It won't take his motivation away, but experience is crucial when developing...

Not sure it's ideal for either country tbh, but such is life.

LeeroyJones

If the Howletts decide to retire here and their son inherits his fathers rugby skill, I won't complain if he opts for Ireland!!!

Spore

handsomecake wrote: »

ridiculous post

Care to elaborate there? Calling a post ridiculous isn't much of an argument.
If you'll allow me to remind you, this was the argument as per the original post:

Now this thread isn't about discussing the links between certain foreigners who have elected a different country as their own in place of the country of birth, it's about whether International Teams are beginning to slowly become into more high form of franchises. Poke around every major nation and you ll that nearly everyone including overselves (Tom Court) have used the residency rules to elevate a player into the national squad.

We're discussing the prospect of some form of incentivised residency scheme to improve teams. So back on topic.

ScholesyIsGod

handsomecake wrote: »

muliaina moved to invercargill when he was 2 years old.
rokocoko moved to new zealand when he was 5.
sivivatu moved to new zealand when he was 17.

now unless the new zealand rugby union are scouting players when they are toddlers your post is unreasonable.
people have a blinkered (and bitter ) view that new zealand rape and pillage these countries for quality players. this is not the case. most of these polynesians are economic migrants to new zealand looking for work and a better life. most of these players moved to new zealand before they ever even picked up a rugby ball. in the same way that the england cricket team has ,ravi bopara,ronnie irani etc we dont accuse them of robbing indian or pakistani players.there is a strong muslim,and oriental presence in england as it is and cricket is a favourite sport among them too.even look at the arcticle about the french football team below:
The French national football team has long reflected the ethnic diversity of the country. The first black player playing in the national team was Raoul Diagne in 1931, the son of the first African elected to the French National Assembly, Blaise Diagne. In the 1950s, the first French national team reaching international success with a semi-final at the World Cup 1958 already included many sons of immigrants such as Raymond Kopa, Roger Piantoni, Maryan Wisnieski and Bernard Chiarelli. This tradition continued through the 1980s, when such successful players as Michel Platini, Jean Tigana, Luis Fernández, Manuel Amoros or Eric Cantona all had foreign-born parents.
During the 1990s, the team was widely celebrated as an example of the modern multicultural French ideal.[2]On the 2006 French national team, 17 of the 23 players were members of racial minorities, including many of the most prominent players. The team featured players born in France's overseas departments and others who were immigrants or the children of immigrants from former French colonies. Zinédine Zidane is the child of an immigrant couple from Algeria; of the current squad Karim Benzema and Samir Nasri are also of Algerian origin. Vikash Dhorasoo — the first French player of Indo-Mauritian origin - played in the 2006 World Cup. Meanwhile, several players are of African and West Indian origin. Patrick Vieira immigrated as a child from Senegal, Bafétimbi Gomis has dual French-Senegalese nationality, and Claude Makélélé did likewise from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Lilian Thuram is from France's overseas department of Guadeloupe. Thierry Henry is the son of parents born in Guadeloupe and Martinique, while Louis Saha, Sylvain Wiltord, and Pascal Chimbonda all have parents who hail from Guadeloupe. Finally, Florent Malouda was born in French Guiana. The multiracial makeup of the team has at times provoked controversy. In recent years, critics on the far right of the French political spectrum have taken issue with the proportional underrepresentation of white Frenchmen on the team. National Front politician Jean-Marie Le Pen protested in 1998 that the Black, Blanc, Beur team that won the World Cup did not look sufficiently French.

what france are doing now is COMPLETELY different to what the allblacks do.they are getting blokes who have lived in the country for a few years to play for them.a bit like riki flutey ,i dont think they should be allowed do it.riki flutey is by no means english.
new zealands polynesians have been in the country nearly all their lives and for the most part have moved there.. before they ever took to a rugby field or even picked up a ball.

percy montgomery is actually namibian but nobody says south africa robbed him.firstly because he is white,and secondly because he is not a 20 stone adonis on the wing running in 20 tries a season.polynesians just tend to be bigger.percys family also moved to south africa for a better life etc but for some reason new zealand always get singled out as poachers

Feel free to dismount from your high horse whenever you feel like it.

I merely made an observation that it would be interesting to see how those nations would do if they were able use the players that were born in those countries.

And on the point you make about Sivivatu he was 17 when he moved to New Zealand so im sure he didn't have to be scouted as a toddler and im sure he had picked up a rugby ball before he left.

anonymous_joe

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

Feel free to dismount from your high horse whenever you feel like it.

I merely made an observation that it would be interesting to see how those nations would do if they were able use the players that were born in those countries.

And on the point you make about Sivivatu he was 17 when he moved to New Zealand so im sure he didn't have to be scouted as a toddler and im sure he had picked up a rugby ball before he left.

You're right, dude, but in all honesty, almost every country in every sport uses players born elsewhere.

Owen Hargreaves isn't English, plenty of Irish players (in all sports) are English. Guy and Simon Easterby went to school with Lorenzo Dallaglio. Sergio Parrise is an Italian born in Argentina (to an Alitalia worker afaik). It's just unstoppable basically.

Amazotheamazing

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

Feel free to dismount from your high horse whenever you feel like it.

I merely made an observation that it would be interesting to see how those nations would do if they were able use the players that were born in those countries.

And on the point you make about Sivivatu he was 17 when he moved to New Zealand so im sure he didn't have to be scouted as a toddler and im sure he had picked up a rugby ball before he left.

If you implemented that rule, you'd end up weakening the Island teams, as a lot of their teams are actually born and raised in New Zealand. At one of the World Cups, I think over half of Tonga's squad had been born in New Zealand.

People always give out about New Zealand but England get away with an awful lot more, guys like Stevens and Catt, the Armitages, Flutey, etc.

ScholesyIsGod

anonymous_joe wrote: »

You're right, dude, but in all honesty, almost every country in every sport uses players born elsewhere.

Owen Hargreaves isn't English, plenty of Irish players (in all sports) are English. Guy and Simon Easterby went to school with Lorenzo Dallaglio. Sergio Parrise is an Italian born in Argentina (to an Alitalia worker afaik). It's just unstoppable basically.

Thats true and like i said in my first post if a player qualifies to play for a country and he's good enough then there's no reason why he shouldn't be selected.

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

You're right, dude, but in all honesty, almost every country in every sport uses players born elsewhere.

Owen Hargreaves isn't English, plenty of Irish players (in all sports) are English. Guy and Simon Easterby went to school with Lorenzo Dallaglio. Sergio Parrise is an Italian born in Argentina (to an Alitalia worker afaik). It's just unstoppable basically.

It's important to note that there is a slight difference between people like Geogheon who feels himself Irish despite being born in England due to his Irish roots. This is true for the Easterbys, Henderson, Maggs, Boss, Court, Campbell etc. The other type are guys who landed here and decided they liked the spot, guys like Brett Wilkinson, Jason Holland, Knoop, Manning etc.

At the minute, there's a few guys who might end up being Irish qualified via residency, Diack, Strauss and N. Williams being examples of the latter.

I think most people don't have much issue with the parent/grandparent rule which is slightly weird, because some could argue living in a country for a period of time makes you more Irish than simply having relatives from a certain country.

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's important to note that there is a slight difference between people like Geogheon who feels himself Irish despite being born in England due to his Irish roots. This is true for the Easterbys, Henderson, Maggs, Boss, Court, Campbell etc. The other type are guys who landed here and decided they liked the spot, guys like Brett Wilkinson, Jason Holland, Knoop, Manning etc.

At the minute, there's a few guys who might end up being Irish qualified via residency, Diack, Strauss and N. Williams being examples of the latter.

I think most people don't have much issue with the parent/grandparent rule which is slightly weird, because some could argue living in a country for a period of time makes you more Irish than simply having relatives from a certain country.

Thing is though, if, mar shampla, Isa Nacewa had never played for Fiji, and comes along in five years time and says they feel Irish, most people'd say, sign on up.

I doubt the likes of Jerry Collins, et al, are especially ungrateful to New Zealand for the life they've lived.

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Thing is though, if, mar shampla, Isa Nacewa had never played for Fiji, and comes along in five years time and says they feel Irish, most people'd say, sign on up.

I doubt the likes of Jerry Collins, et al, are especially ungrateful to New Zealand for the life they've lived.

To take to a deeper level, a lot of Island culture seems to be "tribal" where it's important to represent your tribe, moreso than the western concept of a nation. We in Europe get very hung up on what country someone is from but I don't think it matters as much to the Islanders. Perhaps National identity isn't as important to a guy like CauCau as it might be to a guy like Geogheon. The concept of "Nation" just may not be as strong in their culture, which is something I think westerners struggle with.

By playing for the All Blacks, the players of Island heritage aren't necessarily crossing any boundaries that us westerners might perceive to exist.

OldJay

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

By playing for the All Blacks, the players of Island heritage aren't necessarily crossing any boundaries that us westerners might perceive to exist.

Entirely incorrect.
They're just playing for the country they are raised in as New Zealanders. Nothing tribal about it at all.
It really is that simple.

andrewdcs

Nacewa played a game for Fiji in 2003 (according to the peer reviewed* gods of Wiki) which is what it is, a shame for him. Cup tied for life! He's a Kiwi through and through.
I think he'd walk onto the Fiji team at 10, 15, for 2011 but then I don't know the politics, he seems to have burnt some bridges. I don't think he ever wants to leave Dublin. If Elsom tempts him back to the southern hemisphere I'll punch him on the nose.
In the modern era national boundaries are very much blurred anyway, even if we (Ireland) have a strong cultural ethos that everyone "if you can you really should" play for us, cos we're bleedin great like!
We've nicked very strong football players over the years. McGeedy is as Irish as a Tam o'Shanter perched on a haggis. But hey.
There have been a few "Irish" England players, Kyran Bracken the world famous ice dancer for instance, and some others I can't think of right now.



*not peer reviewed

danthefan

Nick Williams was a Junior All Black, he's not eligible for Ireland.

RMD

Amabokke wrote: »

oh please,

The sooner some of you move on from "everyone to their own" and accept that global integration of different nationalities is good the quicker you'll enjoy rugby again. It makes it more interesting, more competetive and there is a huge learning curve between different cultures and how the game is played which benefit each other.

So the message send out is good and should encourage international teams to become more competitive by using foreign players/.

Imagine an Irish rugby team with say 4-5 foreign players drafted in under the residency rules, not entirely Irish now is it? The day the Irish rugby team turns into nothing more than a franchise is the day I lose all interest in internation rugby as it is no longer purely country against country, it's whoever offers the best incentives.

andrewdcs

andrewdcs wrote: »

Nacewa played a game for Fiji in 2003 (according to the peer reviewed* gods of Wiki) which is what it is, a shame for him. Cup tied for life! He's a Kiwi through and through.
I think he'd walk onto the Fiji team at 10, 15, for 2011 but then I don't know the politics, he seems to have burnt some bridges. I don't think he ever wants to leave Dublin. If Elsom tempts him back to the southern hemisphere I'll punch him on the nose.
In the modern era national boundaries are very much blurred anyway, even if we (Ireland) have a strong cultural ethos that everyone "if you can you really should" play for us, cos we're bleedin great like!
We've nicked very strong football players over the years. McGeedy is as Irish as a Tam o'Shanter perched on a haggis. But hey.
There have been a few "Irish" England players, Kyran Bracken the world famous ice dancer for instance, and some others I can't think of right now.



*not peer reviewed

After they conned him into playing for them,he refused to play for them ever again.

andrewdcs

Ah, the plot thickens, seems Nacewa could line up against Ireland in the AIs that'd be great!

http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=129914

He's too good a player not to be on the international scene. I'm gobsmacked that Little is still playing... He must be 40.

Amazotheamazing

danthefan wrote: »

Nick Williams was a Junior All Black, he's not eligible for Ireland.

Does playing at that level disqualify you? Aren't NZ very precious about labelling any of their teams "A" teams.