The Irish Holocaust

Black Uhlan

Did the occupying British remove foodstuffs at gunpoint from Ireland as the Irish starved to death to feed her own peoples or to wipe us out as a people? And has there been a cover up of one of the most atrocious crimes of history?

The latter is the contention of the makers of this well researched site http://www.irishholocaust.org/britain'scoverup which is well worth reading through.

My own view is that I wouldn't put anything past the empire that gave us concentration camps. http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2007/03/17/british-concentration-camps/

VinnyTGM

It can be considered as genocide in the way they took our food knowing that we were going to die.

rich1874

What would the British get out of doing this though?
Also that website's opening argument mentions that potato blight affected many other countries but they didn't suffer famine, well...we had a far higher dependence on the potato than those countries and we were far more underdeveloped to deal with such a sudden shock food shortage.
Obviously Britain must take blame for some of the factors surrounding the famine, but the idea they purpousely prolonged it to cause a Holocaust.... sounds a bit much.

samson09

There's a few links that might be of interest here:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055602811

We we're royally screwed, literally.

bonkey

VinnyTGM wrote: »

It can be considered as genocide in the way they took our food knowing that we were going to die.

That would establish it, perhaps, as murder. Genocide would require more than "knowing we were going to die" (with undefined meanings of the word 'we').

studiorat

Tony Blair apology on behalf of British Gov (1997)

Not too sure about the balance of that's sites point of view...

As no Jewish person would ever refer to the "Jewish Oxygen Famine of 1939 - 1945", so no Irish person ought ever refer to the Irish Holocaust as a famine.

The Irish Holocaust site was set up in 1995 BTW, doesn't look as though it's been touched since...

Undergod

Black Uhlan wrote: »

My own view is that I wouldn't put anything past the empire that gave us concentration camps. http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2007/03/17/british-concentration-camps/

To say they "gave us concentration camps" is quite misleading.

They did invent camps where populations of Boer civillians were concentrated, during the Boer Wars, but they were not the extermination camps that the Nazis used, and what we think of when we hear the phrase "concentration camp".

That's not to argue against your post, it was always believed that the Empire exported food from Ireland during the famine, at least I was taught that, but I have also seen articles denying this or claiming that the situation was a little more complex than that. How you can get more complex than shipping food out of a starving country, I'd like to know.

VinnyTGM

bonkey wrote: »

That would establish it, perhaps, as murder. Genocide would require more than "knowing we were going to die" (with undefined meanings of the word 'we').

Ok, not genocide, I just threw it there as it was on the tip of my tongue at the time.
I suppose murder would be more accurate as they weren't trying to eradicate us just taking our food to feed themselve's but if some of the Irish were going to die as a result of that, then I suppose they could live with that.

meglome

Black Uhlan wrote: »

My own view is that I wouldn't put anything past the empire that gave us concentration camps. http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2007/03/17/british-concentration-camps/

I think it was the Spanish that created the concentration camp in Cuba before the British used them.

Black Uhlan

meglome wrote: »

I think it was the Spanish that created the concentration camp in Cuba before the British used them.

Not according to here http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O48-concentrationcamp.html.

I don't mean any disrespect but you really need to look more into the Spainish-American War. You yourself have have been a victim of the propoganda machine it seems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_of_the_Spanish%E2%80%93American_War

The British pre Nazi concentration camps was just an example of British atrocities and human rights abuses, here are some more:

Iraq

Full text of human rights watchdog Amnesty International report which shows that UK armed forces in Iraq have shot and killed Iraqi civilians, including an eight-year-old girl and a guest at a wedding celebration, in situations where there was no apparent threat to themselves or others

http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/amnesty.htm
Kenya

Within six months of the declaration of a State of Emergency in October 1952 no less than 430 Kikuyu were reported as being shot while trying to escape.
In reality, suspects were being routinely tortured and murdered by the security forces.

One former policeman later admitted beating prisoners to death and remembered how at the end of a day’s interrogation, “My hands would be bruised and arms would ache from smashing the black bastards”. Prisoners were electrocuted, burned, partly drowned, raped, mutilated and murdered.

This stands out because the Lisbon Treaty gives the EU power to do this to us.

Between October 1952 and November 1954, 756 rebels were hanged, most for offences less than murder. Around 290 were hanged for possessing firearms or ammunition and 45 were hanged for “administering illegal oaths”. By the end of 1954 the number hanged had gone over 900 and it was to go over 1,000 by the end of the Emergency, the draconian legislation passed to quell the rebellion.

continued here:http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=5688

Professor Caroline Elkins of Harvard University has been investigating the claims.
She says that in excess of 50,000 people could have been killed by British security forces. A significantly higher figure than was previously admitted.
Human rights abused
The Correspondent programme reports a number of human rights abuses:

• Horrific tortures and murders committed by white officials and local soldiers under their command
• Castration and blinding for defying captors
• Fatal whipping
• Rape by British soldiers

There were also tales of daily killings at a British-run slave labour camp called Embakasi. It was here that Mau Mau convicts were made to build the foundations for what is now Kenya's main airport.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/2416049.stm

Davis and others have estimated that there were between 12 and 33 million avoidable deaths by famine in India between 1876 and 1908, produced by a deadly combination of official callousness and free-market ideology. But these were far from being a purely Victorian phenomenon. As late as 1943 around 4 million died in the Bengal famine, largely because of official policy.



No one has even attempted to quantify the casualties caused by state-backed forced labour on British-owned mines and plantations in India, Africa and Malaya. But we do know that tens of thousands of often conscripted Africans, Indians and Malays - men, women and children - were either killed or maimed constructing Britain's imperial railways. Also unquantified are the numbers of civilian deaths caused by British aerial bombing and gassing of villages in Sudan, Iraq and Palestine in the 1920 and 1930s.

Nor was the supposedly peaceful decolonisation of the British Empire without its gory cruelties. The hurried partition of the Indian subcontinent brought about a million deaths in the ensuing uncontrolled panic and violence. The brutal suppression of the Mau Mau and the detention of thousands of Kenyan peasants in concentration camps are still dimly remembered, as are the Aden killings of the 1960s. But the massacre of communist insurgents by the Scots Guard in Malaya in the 1950s, the decapitation of so-called bandits by the Royal Marine Commandos in Perak and the secret bombing of Malayan villages during the Emergency remain uninvestigated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/jul/23/congo.comment

Good luck apologising for all that, make Saddam look like a model citizen. But can you at least see a pattern?

edit: You could read Thomas Paine for the best account of the situation in the America.

studiorat

Black Uhlan wrote: »

edit: You could read Thomas Paine for the best account of the situation in the America.

Why? Paine was dead about 100 years by the time the Spanish-Americian happened.

Black Uhlan

studiorat wrote: »

Why? Paine was dead about 100 years by the time the Spanish-Americian happened.

I didn't mean it was happening at the same time, obviously it was when America was under British rule.

Here is 'Common Sense' by Thomas Paine for anyone who is interested. http://books.google.com/books?id=wVt7VxvFyegC&printsec=frontcover&dq=common+sense+paine&ei=4ifJSp7hLoG0yQSy1vChBA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Black Uhlan

studiorat wrote: »

Tony Blair apology on behalf of British Gov (1997)

Not too sure about the balance of that's sites point of view...

It is partisan admittedly, but if I had researched the subject to that depth and come to those conclusions so would I be.

I don't know what counterweight, if any you can put forward to balance the point of view? Unless by balanced you mean PC?

studiorat wrote: »

The Irish Holocaust site was set up in 1995 BTW, doesn't look as though it's been touched since...

Don't see how that changes anything. It was the past then, it is the same past now.

mysterious

rich1874 wrote: »

What would the British get out of doing this though?
Also that website's opening argument mentions that potato blight affected many other countries but they didn't suffer famine, well...we had a far higher dependence on the potato than those countries and we were far more underdeveloped to deal with such a sudden shock food shortage.
Obviously Britain must take blame for some of the factors surrounding the famine, but the idea they purpousely prolonged it to cause a Holocaust.... sounds a bit much.

Our blood was a threat to their crown.;)

It always has been and still is. They have spent hundreds of years trying to wipe us out. Now our own government is licking up to the crown. Your man Mr. Ahern gave his loyality to blair and the crown before us.

Ireland has always played a huge role in the eugenics of the bloods who rule the world. Much of the Irish bloods have gone on and become masons, and part of the illuminati in stateside.

Our blood is racially different to every part of the world except Wales, Scotland France and the Basque region. It is in these regions where our blood is not of the Rhysus monkey. In other words most of us are decendants of Atlantis. After the great floods 13,000 years ago that took havok over the planet the survivors fled to Egpyt and the rest of the known world to become the elites. The other remaining survivors fled to the new lands that became the new coastlines and ice free which was south of Ireland, UK, Western France, Bay of Biscay and the Basque. From my perspective the Cetic history was fabricated into this. When the obvious tells us that the Celts didnt arrive here until 2,000 years ago. These Atlantean people were alchemists, astrologers, astronomers, merlins, mathmaticians and studied the occults. They were brillant star mapppers. They also built stone circles, pyramids, Dolmens and many other ritualistic sites. What is interesting about these sites is they are all built on leylines and natural energy points that come from the inner earth. It's goes to show how advanced these people were in knowing how to use free energy and use it to their advantage. The hill of Tara is a really haunting place and this place will give you an feeling of what our ancients were like. Even Celtic history is fabricated into this. I read the leaflets they handed out in Tara when i was there and my faced just went:rolleyes:

Like I couldn't get over how ppl could fall for such bull****. "The celts ruled in Tara" and all this jazz. Tara is said to be settled 6,000 years ago, not 2,000 when the Celts were here.

But anyhow the RH - blood is an interesting factor to this holocaust. It's like the jews Holocaust. There blood is feared also. So my conclusoin is our blood is more latent and feared than you could imagine.

It was no random joke that the English crown wanted most of us out for nothing there was a good reason for it.

Gillo

Meh, just another excuse for English bashing. Always reminds me of the line Renton gives in Trainspotting, "I have being Scottish, the English they're just w@nkers. We got colonised by a nation of w@nkers". The same can be said for the Irish. Grow up people we're talking about something two hundred years ago, look at the developments me the last ten years and get with the present.

mysterious

Gillo wrote: »

Meh, just another excuse for English bashing. Always reminds me of the line Renton gives in Trainspotting, "I have being Scottish, the English they're just w@nkers. We got colonised by a nation of w@nkers". The same can be said for the Irish. Grow up people we're talking about something two hundred years ago, look at the developments me the last ten years and get with the present.

LOL.

Your telling us to grow up for discussig a topic that happened in history. Why? What is immature about it. Going over history is not always a good thing, but repressing it is worse! This is a fact.

It's an intellegent discussion where the true events of history are been teased out, no one is taking it personal or is having any hard feelings about it. I don't have any hard feelings to the english or any country. People want to discuss it. It's not an issue tbh.

johnny_doyle

what a waste of electrons this thread is. The idea that there was a concerted holocaust/genocide is laughable. More about the economics of the greedy.

There were the landowning Anglo-Irish and English who could get more money for their produce elsewhere than by selling them within Ireland. No concept of social welfare, no real concern for the poor etc. The same people who didn't give a stuff for the great unwashed in England, Wales, Scotland etc...

studiorat

Black Uhlan wrote: »

I


Don't see how that changes anything. It was the past then, it is the same past now.

The site was put up before the "apology". Estimations of history change all the time. It has changed since that site was put up nearly 15 years ago.

Johnny_Doyle hit the nail on the head. Simple as that. No conspiracy it just happened that way, time to move on.

Gillo

mysterious wrote: »

Going over history is not always a good thing, but repressing it is worse! This is a fact.

I'm not saying we should repress history, just not twist it for one's own political opinion. Yes a lot of Irish people starved at because of Bristish policey, even if we were an independent state at that time, that fact of the matter is there was a blight plague for a number of years, the nation was set to starve to death anyway, it's just nice that it was under Bristish rule it gives people another reason to hate them.
Or perhaps we should blame them for spreading the blight also, chemical warfare and all that.