Redundancy Payment=Pilot Training=Job?!?

themissus

hi there
not sure if this is the right place to post this... BUT... my hubbieis soon to be made redundant - the package looks quite good, round the 70-80 k mark. He is THINKING of doing an intergrated pilot training course and basically we are wondering if it is a good idea??
Our situation is we have 2 very small kids and Iwork full time. I can support the family on my wage - and have no problem doing so for a couple of years while he is training.. The question though is - could he get a job in ireland after or is that just dreamin?? Also I konw wages arent what they used to be -what would a realistic starting salary be??
TBH Am v. happy to support him + family for a few years to get off the ground and do dream job BUT at the end of the day just want to make sure there is a realistic chance he could get a job- he currently earns around 65k working in IT (which he hates)
Advice appreciated!! PS another option we were thinking of was him doing contract work - 6 months on then doing pilot exams etc... other 6 months of the year and trying to build up to it that way?? Or maybe better just to bite the bullet and do all the training in one go???

John_Mc

themissus wrote: »

hi there
not sure if this is the right place to post this... BUT... my hubbieis soon to be made redundant - the package looks quite good, round the 70-80 k mark. He is THINKING of doing an intergrated pilot training course and basically we are wondering if it is a good idea??
Our situation is we have 2 very small kids and Iwork full time. I can support the family on my wage - and have no problem doing so for a couple of years while he is training.. The question though is - could he get a job in ireland after or is that just dreamin?? Also I konw wages arent what they used to be -what would a realistic starting salary be??
TBH Am v. happy to support him + family for a few years to get off the ground and do dream job BUT at the end of the day just want to make sure there is a realistic chance he could get a job- he currently earns around 65k working in IT (which he hates)
Advice appreciated!! PS another option we were thinking of was him doing contract work - 6 months on then doing pilot exams etc... other 6 months of the year and trying to build up to it that way?? Or maybe better just to bite the bullet and do all the training in one go???

Hi,

The airline industry is suffering a lot more than other industries with this recession, so I think the chances of your husband getting a job are slim for the next few years.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of qualified pilots out there with a type rating and a few thousand hours. These will be employed before your husband gets a look in. That's unless you do a "pay to fly" type rating with the likes of Ryanair. But something like this only guarantees you the first 500 hours, then you're in a holding pool with hundreds of others so it's not a good solution either.

Instead of the integrated course, I'd recommend taking the modular route to obtaining the ATPL. It works out cheaper but it takes longer, which is actually a good thing. He should be in no rush to get qualified for another few years yet. It costs money to keep your licenses current each year when you're not regularly flying.

I'd recommend taking a look at PPrune to get a better idea of what it's like out there. Personally, I think you'd be mad to spend the money on an integrated course.

Goodluck with whatever you go with

themissus

thanks for that... its hard to figure out the right move esp in this climate... TBH there are loads of qualified teachers, solicitors, architects etc fully trained and waiting for an opening similar to trained pilots that kind of feel he may as well go for it... will take a look at that othersite, thanks again

Delta Kilo

Just to add on the comment you made about getting a job in Ireland, but to do so would be like winning the lottery. You kind of have to go where the work is. If your hubby was to start with ryanair, he could be sent off to SE Poland to their new base, you don't like it, fine, there's the door, there are plenty of other low hour newbies barking at the door.

Even if he got into Aer Lingus, the chances are he would be based in London Gatwick.

That would clearly put strain on your young family, being uprooted and moved somewhere, only to be moved elsewhere a few months later. There are some great stories from current pilots over on pprune.org on how they got where they are and the consequences of the journey. Quite often it has come down to pure luck, determination, and finally LUCK!

pclancy

If you do consider looking into it further, get him to do the medical before applying for any course or spending ANY money on flying. Don't leave it till you've made plans or paid a lot of money etc only to fail on something like eyesight or some physical problem.

themissus

Thanks thats a good tip actually - where do u do it again? The Mater? Is it called a Class A physical? Do u just book it privately ? Also my hubbie is 35 - will that be held against him?? thanks for the help !:D

trad

Madam, you are truely to be applauded. A woman that supports her husbands quest for that dream job is outstanding.

I hope you are appreciated for what you are, a rare gem. Take a bow.

silverwood

Regarding the medical, the details are here:

http://www.materprivate.ie/services/specialities/aeromedical.htm

He will need a Class 1 initial. Give them a call, they're very nice and helpful.

To be honest, I would think very long and hard about doing this. The chances are very high that you would have to move your family to a different city/country for him to get a job. The conditions are no where near as good as what they used to be but it's still a great job. I'm married with 2 young kids and we're very happy. I'm away from home alot (5 nights at a time, then home for 6) and that can be tough but it suits our lifestyle very well.

Just think long and hard because it's more than just a job as it will inevitably involve a move at some point.

Best of luck with it anyway!

silverwood

yaeger

Without a doubt go modular training, do not commit to intergrated training in this hiring environment. If he can contract work in his present field on and off all the better to keep cash flowing, If dublin based he could train out in weston, if not there is other places, but for now just spend hours trawling over the websites looking for info and go out to the schools and talk to them.
Post questions here and check out flyinginireland.com and pprune.org and flyer.co.uk...... Jobs are rare and even rarer in Ireland, so this decision will be a family decision as it can become a life of moving before you get where you want if that ever happens. Be under no illusions its a hard road to get the job and it can become ten times harder there after when you have the job. Think long and hard and dont sink the family funds into it.
4 airlines and 3 continents and many years on and its still tricky for me...
Would I do it again........Absolutley

cuterob

excuse my ignorance but could someone explain modular training and intergrated training.. differences like? cheers

John_Mc

cuterob wrote: »

excuse my ignorance but could someone explain modular training and intergrated training.. differences like? cheers

Integrated means you do it full time all in one go at a flight school, usually in about 60 weeks.

Modular means you work on getting the licenses and qualifications that comprise an airline transport license on a part time basis. It takes longer but it's cheaper and more flexible in terms of funding it (because you choose when and where you do it).

damo

The first thing that you have to realise is that its a massive gamble, with the odds heavily stacked against your husband ever gaining employment as a pilot. When i started training a few years ago, there was around 20 - 25 people who began training at the same time, out of that group only me and one other guy managed to get jobs. This is a typical scenario unfortunately.

There are so many variables that you cant understand until you have been through the whole process - the training is difficult, alot of people dont make it to the multi IR stage and waste thousands of euros in the process of finding out that they dont have an aptitude for flying. There is no guarantee whatsoever that your husband will be good enough when he finishes training, to go into an airline interview, sit into a 737/a320/whatever sim and then fly under huge pressure to the very high standard expected by airlines. For example it is estimated that only one in 5 people pass the selection process for ryanair, and this is because a type rating course is extremely difficult, especially for people with 200 hours in light aircraft.

And then its all about timing, he could be the most talented pilot in the world but if he finishes training at the wrong time, ie. now, then he wont get any interview anyway and then his licences expire, which costs thousands of euros to renew - but more importantly his newly developed flying skills deteriorate and by the time that one golden opportunity comes around ie. a job interview (more importantly the sim check at the interview) he may have forgotten how to fly.

As someone who is flying for an airline, i couldnt reccommend that anyone spends tens of thousands of euros on flight training right now, it is just too much of a gamble - the industry is in crisis and there are literally thousands of type rated pilots that are unemployed, and many more non type rated 200 hour meir holders that are dreaming of an interview.

Feel free to PM me if you want to.

damo

P.S

Like another poster mentioned, it is very unlikely he would get a job in ireland, he would be sent wherever he was needed. I applied for bases in ireland but have so far been based in germany and spain. Airlines are reducing capacity in ireland due to the lack of demand.

Mr Benevolent

70-80k is frankly not nearly enough to become a type rated fATPL . Especially when you consider that he'll be doing it full time, living costs will take a significant chunk out of that. Also, MIR revalidation will cost about €5k a year and maintaining proficiency will cost around the same per year. And that's even without having a job.

If he does decide to do it, make sure he gets his Class 1 medical before doing anything else.

logie101

themissus wrote: »

hi there
not sure if this is the right place to post this... BUT... my hubbieis soon to be made redundant - the package looks quite good, round the 70-80 k mark. He is THINKING of doing an intergrated pilot training course and basically we are wondering if it is a good idea??
Our situation is we have 2 very small kids and Iwork full time. I can support the family on my wage - and have no problem doing so for a couple of years while he is training.. The question though is - could he get a job in ireland after or is that just dreamin?? Also I konw wages arent what they used to be -what would a realistic starting salary be??
TBH Am v. happy to support him + family for a few years to get off the ground and do dream job BUT at the end of the day just want to make sure there is a realistic chance he could get a job- he currently earns around 65k working in IT (which he hates)
Advice appreciated!! PS another option we were thinking of was him doing contract work - 6 months on then doing pilot exams etc... other 6 months of the year and trying to build up to it that way?? Or maybe better just to bite the bullet and do all the training in one go???

Does your husband have a Privates Pilots License? If not, he should consider doing one first.

This will give him a good idea of he likes flying. Sometimes best to keep your "dream Job" as a hobby.

He could even become a part time instructor and do a bit of IT contract work on the side...

damo

He could even become a part time instructor and do a bit of IT contract work on the side...

I have several friends who couldnt get an airline interview after finishing training, and then went and paid another 5 grand to get an instructor rating only to find there are absolutely no instructing jobs at all to be found.

It is a horrendous time to be an unemployed qualified pilot, please be very careful.

diverdriver

It's a huge risk, but if it's what he really wants to do. Then it will always be a regret if he doesn't try. However, if he simply wants to be a pilot because he's fed up with IT. Then he's in for a disappointment. It's not the job it was, indeed it was never really the job it appeared to be.

An example, a guy I know, like your husband. Went to Spain for a year on an integrated course. Came back, no jobs, started an Instructor's course but got a job abroad where you have to pay for your type rating. Essentially he was a way from the family for over a year, there were visits of course. But imagine how tough it would be? Now he has a a job but it's long way away. Imagine that and it's effect on your marriage and family?

It's worth pointing out that Ryanair, which after all is the most likely 'employer', (note exclamation marks), expects you to pay for training up front, €25k. For that you become a contractor, not an employee, with all the uncertainty that entails. They also send you to a base that suits them, not you. You can transfer back eventually, hopefully, maybe.

Still interested?

A couple of points, Aer Lingus only hire graduates of integrated courses and then only certain schools unless you are already jet rated. Even then, they put them through the same aptitude tests as they used to give school leavers. So you'll only get Aer Lingus, asssuming they are hiring if you do an integrated course.

€70-80k won't buy you most integrated courses and won't leave any money for follow ups like buying type ratings to get into Ryanair or keeping him current while waiting for a job. If the 'integrated' course he's looking at is the one being offered by PTC in Waterford. Beware it's not integrated, it's modular. Just an full time modular course. PTC had a bad rap for a while but it appears they are improving and hopefully they are.

There is no work at the moment for pilots. Some 'jobs' do exist but are either unpaid or low paid. The dole pays better.

But, but, before I go on a complete negative spiral. If that is what he really wants and you are genuinely aware of the risks and of the timescales. Then go for it. My wife supported me and subsidised me, still does frankly because I have yet to make a decent living from it and indeed and considering quitting eventually because I don't see a future as a pilot for me anyhow. There will certainly be no future for my marriage if I doesn't come good soon.:(

It's a tough gig, not everyone makes it. There will be jobs in the future, your guess is as good as mine when that happens.

pclancy

Some excellent info here. Must integrate into the sticky. Thanks.