lisbon and "democratic deficit"

baaaa

Can anybody explain why people say lisbon will create a democratic deficit please?

PopeBuckfastXVI

baaaa wrote: »

Can anybody explain why people say lisbon will create a democratic deficit please?

Generally Eurosceptics claim that a democratic deficit already exists, and Lisbon widens it, without ever saying how.

For what it's worth Lisbon gives the European Parliament far more power in approving or rejecting EU legislation, and as you know we democratically elect our MEP's to sit in that parliament.

'Democratic Deficit' is a buzzword, usually found in the same sentences as 'elites' and 'eurocrats'...

Scofflaw

The 'democratic deficit', while it is certainly a eurosceptical term of abuse, also has a real meaning. It's essentially the lack of democratic control over the workings of Europe, and the lack of accountability of Europe to the citizen.

There are three institutions involved in the day to day running of the EU - the Commission, the Council of Ministers, and the European Parliament.

1. The Commission represents Europe, by ensuring that all European legislation has a common character and legal base, and is necessary for Europe rather than individual countries. For this reason, the Commission has the sole right to initiate legislation for specifically European matters like the common market (in areas that are more of interest to the member states, like foreign policy, it has no rights). The Commission doesn't really draft legislation - it works with the national civil services to do so, so the laws are drafted at least in part by Irish civil servants under the direction of Irish Ministers.

2. The Council of Ministers represents the member states, by way of the appropriate Minister for the subject under discussion. All EU legislation must be passed by the Council, which theoretically votes on it, but in practice either comes to mutual and unanimous consensus, or shelves the matter. The Council members decide on the basis of whether legislation is good for their national interest.

3. The European Parliament represents the citizens. Like the Council, it doesn't make European legislation, but can amend or reject it. It's not a law-making body like the Oireachtas, but more a very powerful citizens' watchdog body - it is 'constitutionally' opposed to the Council and the Commission, and has the power to dismiss the Commission, as well the ability to refuse the EU's budget.

A lot of people assume that the democratic deficit exists because "the laws are made by unaccountable Brussels bureaucrats". In fact, the laws are "made" by the member state governments passing them. We don't say that our civil service makes our laws, because the important part of the process is the Oireachtas vote. Similarly, in the EU, the important step is the voting and amendment by the Council and the Parliament, without which Commisison drafts will not see the light of day.

Where the democratic deficit really seems to come in is in the diffusion of responsibility in the EU, and in the resulting lack of control we appear to have over our government in the EU. We don't know what our government has agreed to, what it has opposed - all we know is that EU legislation mysteriously emerges from Brussels, without any apparent intervention by our elected representatives.

The main reason I like the Treaty is that it includes a large number of provisions that reduce the democratic deficit, by giving more oversight powers to the Oireachtas and increasing the information available to them (all of them, not just the government, and not just the Dáil), by increasing the role of the European Parliament, by requiring the Council of Ministers to meet in public when debating or voting on legislation, and by trying to involve ordinary people in the creation of EU legislation through the Citizens' Initiatives.

cordially,
Scofflaw

P. Breathnach

Scofflaw wrote: »

... Where the democratic deficit really seems to come in is in the diffusion of responsibility in the EU, and in the resulting lack of control we appear to have over our government in the EU. We don't know what our government has agreed to, what it has opposed - all we know is that EU legislation mysteriously emerges from Brussels, without any apparent intervention by our elected representatives...

That is putting it very neatly and clearly. Thank you.

The problem is compounded by our politicians, including government ministers and members of government parties, being very willing to blame "Brussels" for things that their constituents might not like.

We possibly need something like the German constitutional court ruling, so that we have full access to accounts of what our representatives actually do, and perhaps some parliamentary control or influence over them.

Daftendirekt

Good post, Scofflaw.

As I found out for myself before the last referendum, very little of Lisbon actually makes sense if you don't know anything about the role of the three main bodies of the EU.

I can't help but wonder, if more people took the time to find out a little something about how the EU works, and what it does, would so many people be automatically opposed to Lisbon?