Neutrality

nicksinthemix

Is anybody else getting enraged over the use of this term 'neutrality'?

What does it mean today? TODAY? Someone give me an answer.

Does it mean it's as acceptable to join the Iraqi insurgency as it is to enroll in the US Army?

What we seem to be afraid of is future war so vast in scale that the EU needs to call on millions of troops.

If that day is ever to come, then how do we know that we would not want to fight in it? Such a decision will be left to younger generations and it occurs to me that a lot of the people campaigning on this issue will be long in the ground before it becomes a concern.

I won't pretend to understand what allowed us recognise Nazism for what it was while claiming to be 'neutral'. If the values we share with Europe ever come under such a threat again then are we going to be just as spineless?

It was probably fine for a young, semi third-world nation to play dumb in a era before globalisation. Now we have no excuses. Are we proud of our liberal, western values? Are we willing to defend them if that time ever comes?

So what does neutrality mean TODAY? What, if anything, will it mean in the future?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Hi there,

you might get more engagement and discussion on the concept of Irish neutrality in the main politics forum -> http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99

Rb

The same people moaning about neutrality right now are the very same who'd lose the plot if the EU told us to f-off if we sought military help.

My own stance on neutrality has changed much since Lisbon I, I now see it as we're all in this together and should be looking out for one another. If there is going to be an EU army, then so be it, let's participate and pat eachothers backs for a job well done.

ei.sdraob

nicksinthemix wrote: »

So what does neutrality mean TODAY? What, if anything, will it mean in the future?

in case of Ireland it means allowing military flights today and tomorrow to carry troops and prisoners "of war" to be ferried thru Shannon

sceptre

Put simply neutrality is the intention and ability to avoid getting involved in any military conflict between other countries (and actually not getting involved in them). Formally it requires the ability to resist invasion by any of those countries. Unfortunately we've never had this ability. Especially if you compare our military might to say Switzerland, where they have tanks.

In a technical sense, we're categorised more as a non-aligned country, not a neutral one (we're not in NATO but we don't have a formally defined policy of remaining neutral in future wars, just a vaguely defined history of not officially taking part in any and we don't have the capacity to repel an invasion by anyone except Luxembourg for very long). Whether any of you like our policy of neutrality or not is one thing, the fact is that we dno't have the firepower to reserve it if anyone decides they don't like us. Unlike Switzerland. Having said that, no country would invade us without the agreement or acquiescence of the UK. Any invading force here would be a threat to them.

Realistically, our policy of neutrality came about because DeValera wasn't going to fight on Hitler's side for at least two obvious reasons (the UK would have invaded and Hitler was a ****) and didn't want to fight on the UK's side. We've rarely had the chance to take part in any wars since and we've never really had the capacity. We participate in the peacekeeping missions though, which keep us busy and liked. Over time we've come used to the idea that we don't take part in wars, even though realistically there are very few wars that we'd be any good in anyway. Note that our defence forces are very professional and lauded as such, it's just that their guns aren't very big and there aren't very many of them. Unlike, say, Switzerland, who after all are probably the most neutral country ever since their independence the Congress of Vienna.

My name is URL

Ireland is not neutral AT ALL.

Alignment with other nations is decided on a case-by-case basis under a triple-lock mechanism

Truly 'Neutral' countries are also Isolationist, and their armies are only used to defend their own borders

BlitzKrieg

I understand we are already members of WEU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union) though only as observers.

ixtlan

Indeed I also feel frustrated with this constant meaningless question of whether Lisbon affects our neutrality, when we have never ever had a discussion about what neutrality means.

Switzerland remained outside the UN for over 50 years fearing that it would destroy their neutrality. They only overturned this in a referendum in 2002, which was very narrowly won.

So does membership of the UN affect neutrality? Of course it does. It does align us with the UN security council. In fact our ridiculous "triple-lock" places our military under the control of Britain, France, China, Russia and the US.

It seems though that as a nation we are not grown-up enough to have a debate about neutrality.

Ix.

P. Breathnach

My name is URL wrote: »

Ireland is not neutral AT ALL.

Alignment with other nations is decided on a case-by-case basis under a triple-lock mechanism

Truly 'Neutral' countries are also Isolationist, and their armies are only used to defend their own borders

The expression used by our government is "militarily neutral". The question of alignment is not overtly addressed, but the general understanding of being pro-the-western-side-but not-quite-NATO is, I think, broadly understood.

SkepticOne

Neutrality also gradually means less and less as political union proceeds if that political union eventually adopts military capability in its own right.

it's kinda cowardly. "i'm not going to do anything because i'm afraid of getting attacked back."

well happy to be ina neutral country though.

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

well happy to be ina neutral country though.

You're NOT, though; I haven't seen any Iraqis parading around Shannon in uniform.