Sanshou Nationals

Niall Keane

Following the success of the East Coast Open and the West Coast Open, the Irish Chinese Boxing Association (ICBA) nationals are to be held on the 22nd of November at Leisure Point, Cardiffsbridge Road, Finglas, Dublin 11. See:

www.sanshou.ie

Winners of the event and their coaches qualify for the Irish International Team. The team will be participating in the PWKA Euro-Sanda League, currently with events set up in Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Austria and Hungary, with teams already participating from all over Europe, from Norway to Portugal, Russia to our good selves.

The competition is open to all styles, rules can be found on the site.

Good Luck!

On related matters, A South Coast Open will be added to next year's ICBA competitions, and negotiations have been taking place to make the 2010 Nationals part of the Euro-Sanda League, bringing sanshou fighters here from all over Europe.

007phoenix

Is there a registration before hand or is it on the day?

wudangclan

i dunno but i think the organisers should allow it to encourage more participation.
filling out and sending off forms is hard work for some.

Niall Keane

please contact Tony Burke on (353) 087-3178917 or info@sanshou.ie

I don't know the answer to this myself, Tony is the Competitions Officer ICBA.
however, you should note that weigh-ins are done both on the morning of the competition, but also the evening beforehand. So early registration will allow you to eat that carbonara, and drink a gallon of water the night before.
This is a policy persued by the ICBA in the interests of fighter safety, those who are cutting weight don't have to enter the comp completely dehydrated, and so more prone to knockouts and related injuries.

_oveless

Is there a youth section?

OLDMAN1

THERE WILL BE NO YOUTH SECTION AT THIS YEARS NATIONALS, THE YOUTH SECTION WILL START AT THE BEGINING OF NEXT YEAR, THERE IS 1 POINT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE ON THE SUBJECT OF PRE REGISTERING. WE WOULD MUCH RATHER IF COACHES REGISTERED THERE FIGHTERS 1 WEEK BEFORE THE EVENT BUT THIS IS NOT NECESSARY, BUT I WOULD ADVISE ANYBODY THAY IS INTRESTED ,TO WEIGHT IN THE NIGHT BEFORE AS THIS TAKES A LOT OF PRESSURE OFF THE FIGHTER ON THE DAY, THIS IS ONLY A SUGGESTION. TONY

Niall Keane

less than 2 weeks to go, from the interest and applications we're receiving, this is going to be good!

OLDMAN1

REMEMBER THE CLOSING DATE FOR PRE REGISTERING FOR THE SANSHOU NATIONALS IS THE 15TH OF THIS MONTH, THIS CAN BE DONE BY EMAIL anthony-burke@live.ie OR BY TEXT (0873178917). IF YOU PREREGISTER THE PRICE IS 25 EUROS, IF YOU DON'T AND LEAVE IT UNTIL THE DAY IT'S 40 EUROS, I WOULD ALSO ADVISE EVERYBODY THAT CAN, TO WEIGHT IN THE DAY BEFORE AT THE VENUE AS IT WILL SAVE PEOPLE FROM DEHYDRATING AND STARVING THEMSELVES ON THE DAY TO MAKE WEIGHT. THE WEIGHT IN WILL TAKE PLACE BETWEEN 5:30 AND 6:30 ON SATURDAY THE 21TH IN LEISURE POINT , FINGLAS. THERE WILL ALSO BE A WEIGHTIN ON THE MORNING OF THE EVENT FOR THOSE THAT CANT. GOOD LUCK TO EVERYBODY.

OLDMAN1

remember people sunday is the last day to preregister for the nationals on the 22th, we've heard all the talk, now is the time to just get in there and do it, no more excuses and good luck to everybody...

Killme00

Any results, pics or video from this?

Did Paco (Patrick O Connor) win his division?

OLDMAN1

PACO DID WIN THE UNDER -60KG SECTION AND CAME SECOND IN THE -65KG, WE WILL BE PUTTING UP THE FULL RESULTS TOMORROW, BUT HERE ARE SOME PICS

Niall Keane

Sorry this doesn't translate too well on boards but here's the results:

ICBA Nationals - 2009

Sanshou Men Open
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Alan Phillips GRASP Liam Dale 50
2 Mark Leonard Point Blank Submissions Mark Leonard 40
3 Stephen Geddles Moy Valley Freestyle Harry Thompson 30
4 Paul Oragano Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 20

Sanshou Men -90kg
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Colm Walshe Moy Valley Freestyle Harry Thompson 50
2 Frank Temple Seikawa William Burdock 40
3 Ciaran Reilly Chinese Boxing School Willie Delaney 30

Sanshou Men -85kg
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Victor Macmnac Royal Combat Club Tony Burke 50
2 Joe Melvin Moy Valley Freestyle Harry Thompson 40
3 Vincent Lawless Chinese Boxing School Willie Delaney 30

Sanshou Men -80kg
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Alan Delmar GRASP Liam Dale 50
2 Andrej Machnac Royal Combat Club Tony Burke 40
3 Paul Courage Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 30
4 Donal Tynan Pankration Dermot McGrath 20
5 Cianan Kearney Lucan Kickboxing Club John Kelly 10

Sanshou Men -75kg
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 David McNamara Pankration Dermot McGrath 50
2 Declan Gernon Wudang Sanshou Niall Keane 40
3 Johnny Lloyd Pankration Dermot McGrath 30
4 Shane Gettings Yang's Martial Arts Association Paul Moran 20
5 Sean Boyd Yang's Martial Arts Association Paul Moran 10
5 William Burdock Seikawa William Burdock 10
5 David O’Dwyer Pankration Dermot McGrath 10
5 John Tang Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 10
5 Jackie Zhu Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 10
5 Robertas Zilaitis Royal Combat Club Tony Burke 10

Sanshou Men -70kg
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Benjamin Davis Point Blank Submissions Mark Leonard 50
2 Angus Boyle Yang's Martial Arts Association Paul Moran 40
3 Dave Hannon Pankration Dermot McGrath 30
4 Daren Lowry Wudang Sanshou Niall Keane 20
5 Gary Kelly Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 10
5 Tony Meehan Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 10
5 Paul Sheridan Chinese Boxing School Willie Delaney 10

Sanshou Men -65kg
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Leo Burdock Seikawa William Burdock 50
2 Patrick O’Connor Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 40
3 James Guigley Pankration Dermot McGrath 30
4 David Tynan Royal Combat Club Tony Burke 20
5 Karl Kidd Wudang Sanshou Niall Keane 10

Sanshou Men -60kg
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Patrick O’Connor Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 50
2 Darren Jordan Moy Valley Freestyle Harry Thompson 40

Sanshou Women Open
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Siobhan McCormack Pankration Dermot McGrath 50
2 Sharon Mckillican Pankration Dermot McGrath 40

Sanshou Women -60kg
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Jennifer Durnin Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 50
2 Catherine Costigan Pankration Dermot McGrath 40

Ching Da Men Open
Position Athlete Club Coach League Points
1 Pitor KalKowski Chinese Boxing School Chris Denison 50
2 Ciaran Barter Li Ching Wu Wally Dillon 40

mark.leonard

I like the flattering effect calling my weight class "Open" instead of something else has on us.....larger better fed more enthusiastic competitors!

Horioni

There would seem to be way to much kickboxing and not a lot of Kung Fu on the day, with a couple of "Chancers" on the Juice!!

Hopefully this will not be the case going forward!?

Killme00

Horioni wrote: »

There would seem to be way to much kickboxing and not a lot of Kung Fu on the day, with a couple of "Chancers" on the Juice!!

Hopefully this will not be the case going forward!?

Please expand on your comments. I dont really understand.

Niall Keane

Go to You tube, and search SAN SHOU IRELAND NATIONALS 2009
for some highlights.

Horioni

There would seem to be way to much kickboxing and not a lot of Kung Fu on the day

two arms, two legs, a body and head, perhaps you expected Crouching Tiger Hidden ropes, that's just the movies you know, you're not supposed to take it seriously! Just a heads up as this is the interweb, just in case you ever make a complete eijit of yourself in conversation in the real world!

with a couple of "Chancers" on the Juice

I think based on your hollywood expectations, you were probably a little frightened? No Kung Fu Pandas, just athletes!



Just like to say thanks to all the athletes who competed, and all the coaches who got involved. There were some hitches no doubt, and we'll work to iron these out, tell ya something I feckin hate Vista and the problems word and Excell has with different versions!

Niall Keane

Just an aside, based on what people expect from Kung Fu and Tai Chi Chuan in particular, check the "Is it just me?" thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055756509

its closed now, but why am I the only one to get singled out, it starts out being a rave about Thai and BJJ? Guess I must be the Tai Chi Chuan Anti-Christ or something????

OLDMAN1

you sound like a sore looser to me or someone that did,nt have the nerve to enter the competition in the first place, a quick guess .i would say that your style of kung fu is so dangerous that you can'nt enter competitions with it, am i right? by the way what style of kung fu do you do? what i saw on the day was good fighters from good kung fu clubs, good karate clubs ,good kickboxing clubs and good mma clubs.

Doug Cartel

Actually that brigs up a question I meant to ask before. This is open to non-kungfu clubs right? So how much sanda specific training does it take to make a good show of yourself if you want to enter? Does the competition cater for people who've done a bit of striking and a bit of throwing and just want to try it out, or is it all serious business?

mark.leonard

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Actually that brigs up a question I meant to ask before. This is open to non-kungfu clubs right? So how much sanda specific training does it take to make a good show of yourself if you want to enter? Does the competition cater for people who've done a bit of striking and a bit of throwing and just want to try it out, or is it all serious business?

Ben and myself both do MMA pretty exclusively and were able to make a fairly good showing at the event (despite some misunderstanding regarding bowing, and guard passing ) if you have solid full contact striking you will do fine, if you have good striking and ability in the clinch you will do better, though in both mine and Ben's divisions the clinch was rudimentary enough, it was mostly decided by striking as far as I could see.

OLDMAN1

i would agree with most of what mark said . but mark and ben both have experience in stand up striking. understanding the rules and knowing what the judges will score is the most important thing, sanshou is open to any style , kung fu ,karate, mma, boxing or judo and you dont have to do any training with anyone else but your own instructor to have a go, but if you really want to do some sanshou training, why not ask mark if your up that way,(he is a level 1 sanshou coach now) the only advise i would give anyone is to keep your hand up because if you dont you will be in trouble as a number of people found out last weekend

Niall Keane

Thanks Mark,

just to add, all styles are welcome, the clinch is limited to 3-5 seconds so really its about fast throws where the idea is to remain standing. This changes obviously in pro and kao shou where the clinch length is extended and knees and elbows allowed....I digress.

You can score a single point by throwing and landing on an opponent, but you cannot score by kneeling first and falling on / dragging the opponent to the ground. You can however do a sissors takedown and touch the ground with your hands performing an iron broom technique. You Tube has bucket loads of sanshou clips, check a few for an idea.

EDIT: Oldman1 you beat me to the response!

Horioni

I think based on your hollywood expectations, you were probably a little frightened?

hahaha... You a funny guy!

It was a good day of fighting, the lads just need to get their takedowns and throws down as well as knowing the full rules.

The MMA lads were up for it but didnt know the rules.

Their were a couple of good 'Kung Fu' fighters on the day, your fighter been one, having good tech takedowns, but he got injured so we didnt see him take the win.

The curtsey to the judges was funny Mark! lol

Horioni

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

you sound like a sore looser to me or someone that did,nt have the nerve to enter the competition in the first place, a quick guess...

Well being in my late forties i didnt want to make the boys look bad... hahahah.....

The Third Hook

Is it just me or are there photos promised on page one that aren't showing up.
Also, 'misunderstanding' Mark or just a prospect to play the heel!?




(Oh, and it James Quigley, not Guigley....though that sorta sounds cooler)

Roper

I didn't know anyone could enter this, we may have had a few guys have a pop at it. It's tricky enough to get decent striking competitions.

Quick Q, is there or will there ever be an underage section?

Doug Cartel

Cool n the gang. Hopefully if Santa brings me a bike for Christmas, I can start training striking again (nothing decent round my way that doesn't clash with my judo). San sho is something I've wanted to try for a while, but I don't want to go switching styles yet again.

Niall Keane

Roper,
yes there will be under 16's Ching Da - lighter contact - knockouts are penalised not scored in favour. but all punch, kick and throws allowed.

Doug,
that's right this is not about people changing style, san shou was originally called Lei Tai, similar to Leithai in Burma, fought on a platform without ropes, still is in the bigger comps. The original point was a common format for the various Chinese arts to compete in, you've probably seen "fearless" a film and as such an exaggeration of such! During soviet times it spread over the communist countries, now its managed to qualify meet the criteria for the Olympics, in 6 continents, doesn't make it certain though. Re. the platform, even on mats - Hence the rules:
2 points for a push out
2 points for a kick / punch / throw (remaining standing) out but two of these win the round
3 punch / kick knock downs in a fight and you win.

Just to let people know, right now I'm the chief national coach, this means I run around making sure the fighters and their coaches know when they're on etc. at internationals, I hope that I may also be of use having the experience of fighting throughout Europe for 10 years, and having fought most of the present generation of successful coaches. eg. should you fight a French national team I'll be able to tell you that their coach made a name for himself breaking peoples ribs with a very close and fast spinning side kick, most his students follow suit. Some of you might find this useful???

Anyway, to become a level 1 sanshou coach all you have to do is enter, if you're like I and my coach were a lone daoist recluse, or enter a student, at which stage you can enter any PWKA event, i.e. the euro-league, the only restriction is the Europeans and the worlds, we can only enter one fighter per weight cata here, so we’ve decided this year it means the national champs, from next year it means the league champ, i.e. the average best over all ICBA comps. This allows for bad hair days!!!

So far we have a Switz team, yes the team who beat the Chinese set to turn up along with many other European teams for next years nationals, also we have a date for the Irish team in Boston in the set up stage, venue secured, dates to be confirmed.

For all those coaches who have national champs, I will be contacting you directly in early January.

Next comp the East Coast Open 2010, on March 7th.

Niall Keane
ICBA: General Secretary, International Liaison Officer & National Team Coach.
PWKA: Irish President

Niall Keane

BTW, I may be premature here, but I believe that Dermot McGrath of Pankration and Paul Moran of Yang's Martial Arts Association are the people running the under 16's Ching Da section. I'm sure as in everything else in ICBA they would be delighted of cooperation from like minded persons.

Roper

Well cool because we have a bunch of teenagers I'd like to see competing at some level where they can use what they've learned. I've met both Paul and Dermot. What are the contact rules like?

Niall Keane

Roper,
I'm not 100% on Ching Da rules, but the PWKA and ICBA have adopted the IWUF rules, i.e. we're not developing GAA when soccer is the only game in town. So if you google IWUF you should be able to find a comprehensive rule set. The standardisation of the rules for amateur sports has made many changes over the years. Clean throws becoming 2instead of 3 points, chest guards adopted - Olympic condition, shin guards are on the way out, currently allowed for competition days where a fighter has multiple fights, but not allowed for single fights (this is all amateur, semi pro and pro have a cup and 10 ounce gloves period). For a full rule set check the ICBA site - www.sanshou.ie, or IWUF both are identical.

OLDMAN1

the full rules are up on the site, www.sanshou.ie both sets , sanshou and quingda

Horioni

Whats the story with Knees and Elbows, are they allowed in the Full Contact Fights?

mark.leonard

I raised this on the day, but is there any hope of running multiple rings in future events?

I understand the amount of judges involved in a single San Shou match could make this prohibitive, to make the tournament more friendly for people wanting to get in and out a bit quicker it would be great.

OLDMAN1

Horioni: knees and elbow are only allowed in the pro division

Mark: i do agree with you that it would be much more user friendly if we had 2 area going at the same time and we will be trying to do that for our next competition, but as you also pointed out under the rules of sanshou we must have 4 corner judges, a mat ref and a table of senior judges for each mat area, that is the very reason that we have being asking every club that has got involved to also supply a judge or a ref, have you got one for me from your club for the east coast open on the 7th of march 2010? the competition format will only really work if the clubs supply the judges and it will also make it fairer for all involved and your suggests are always welcome. i will rob a good idea off anybody.

Niall Keane

Elbows and Knees: Only in pro. Sanshou (sanda) and in IKF Kao Shou.
The ICBA will run its amateur events under international IWUF rules.

BTW this does not preclude members from entering the other formats, we're not one of those type of organisations, currently Wudangclan who also posts here is British amateur Kao Shou champion (elbows and knees with boxing head gear, cup and 10 ounce gloves) (pro kao shou = without head gear) He's also ranked 4th in 2008 in PWKA semi-pro sanshou European league (no elbows, knees allowed, but no vest or head gear, just 10 ounce gloves, cup and gum shield)
Personally I reached before retiring a ranking of 4th in 2005 in IMAF/PWKA pro sanda world rankings 87 countries participating. (elbows and knees, gum shield, cup and 10 ounce gloves.)
Hope this helps explain it a bit?

To answer the obvious question, long term we are aiming to organise semi-pro and pro fightnights but have currently no such event planned, we have as aforementioned set up international events at amateur level. The amateur league is running 6 months, the general standard is improving at each event, I can certainly see some guys who have good potential, but as the tai chi chuan classics state "we cannot suddenly become expert". I have the contacts and interested parties throughout Europe who would come over to fight, but as ICBA chief national coach, working along side the other national coaches I'm in the business of building up the Irish team, not providing fodder for cash!!!

Patience..:) 2010 has so far 4 ICBA sanshou events in planning, with a host of international comps available to the international team, it won't be long for the standard of Irish sanshou to be on a world level. Last year the Switz pro team beat the Chinese pro team, a first ever for any country. Just over 10 years ago together with the Italians they set up the PWKA. The frequency of the PWKA competitions has generated their success. Ireland being a member of the PWKA, our team has the opportunity to test themselves and learn from the best!