N21 - Adare to Abbeyfeale

Tech3

THE route options of the road bypassing Newcastle West and Abbeyfeale, with a further bypass of Rathkeale, will go on display within a fortnight.
The road, from just west of Adare as far as the Kerry boundary, will bypass Rathkeale to the south and swing well south of Newcastle West as well, and cross the hills not far from Tournafulla before bypassing Abbeyfeale, again to the south. It is envisaged that the road will be a dual carriageway as far as Newcastle West.

The councillors for the Newcastle and Rathkeale electoral areas were briefed by officials from the regional roads design office in the past days, but were shown no maps.

The roads office has confirmed to the Limerick Leader that, following initial studies, six corridors had been identified and that three of these are being progressed, with the other three being put on hold to be reactivated if problems arise during further planning or during the environmental study which has been commissioned.

Cllr Patrick O'Donovan now accuses the planners of "ignoring and damaging the port of Foynes, which is a key piece of infrastructure not only for Limerick, but for the whole western seaboard and which it is national policy to develop".

"When consultation was taking place about the proposed Adare bypass, a process which took two years, it had been hoped to build a link from there to Foynes in the future. But the NRA then ignored all the consultation, which had favoured a route to the north of the village and now proposes a bypass well to the south of Adare. Now it seems that a Newcastle West bypass will run to the south of the town, almost as far as Castlemahon, leaving Foynes further than ever from the national road grid.

Chief planning engineer for the project, David Leahy, said that his office is reviewing the traffic data relating to Foynes on the roads around Newcastle West and will be in talks with Shannon Foynes Port Company to determine the plans for the further development of the port.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Bypass-for-NCW-and-Abbeyfeale.5658439.jp

JupiterKid

Badly needed bypasses on the part of Newcastle West and Abbeyfeale, but why bypass Rathkeale a second time when a perfectly good bypass of the town was built in the 1990s?

Anyhow, I don't this propsed project starting for many years to come.

Tech3

Yeah I was wondering why are they planning to bypass Rathkeale again as well. Lack of overtaking opportunities would be one of the main reasons along with disrupting the routing of the offline scheme.

From the article it looks like the N21 will be heading towards Abbeyfeale from the east thus the R555 will not be linked to the new road.

Dual carriageway to Newcastlewest? I thought it was going to be 2+2 all the way to the Kerry border?

Anyway this scheme should be prioritized over the Tralee bypass at least.

The Word Is Bor

Rathkeale Bypass has far too many junctions. I think people have built right up against the road in Rathkeale itself so there may be no room to widen the road. The route south of Abbeyfeale would be shorter but wouldn't connect with the R555. I don't think it will be too much of a problem as the removal of through traffic will help traffic to/from the R555.

road_high

I don't think I would be holding my breath on this happening any time soon. the Adare bit should certainly be fast tracked imo. Such a nice little tourist village choked with traffic is just wrong.

mysterious

They cannot be going with the Adare bypass scheme leading into a interchange at Croom. It is just terrible. I don't see the logic in swinging the N21 towards Croom and back up the N20. It takes way more off your journey and ends at a roundabout to join the M20.


Honestly my gut feeling in the beginning was the NRA deliberately designed a retarded bypass because they don't want to build it. when people were asking to lump the Adare bypass scheme into the M20M21 project. They picked the cheapest route available. No road engineer would plan a bypass like that. How in god's name could you tie in the NCW scheme into it when the Adare bypass ends perpendicular to the the Existing N21. The N21 from NCW would have to go right to get onto the Adare bypass.

Apart from my rant, what are your thoughts. I still can't really get over this odd plan.

Chris_533976

Possibly. It does mean that the Adare bypass cant be touched until the M20 is resurrected. That could be five years MINIMUM. I dont know why they cant plan a Claregalway relief road style inner bypass though.

L1011

Its possible the bad routing for the Adare bypass was chosen to give easier/cheaper options for this scheme, could end up leaving the planned western end of the Adare BP as a stub/spur.

L1011

JupiterKid wrote: »

Badly needed bypasses on the part of Newcastle West and Abbeyfeale, but why bypass Rathkeale a second time when a perfectly good bypass of the town was built in the 1990s?

The Rathkeale bypass is partially built on "borrowed" trackbed of the old North Kerry railway line which the NRA allegedly said they'd eventually un-occupy. Rebypassing it with this plan makes more sense than being demanded to so they can build the Kerry Rail Corridor in 40 years time.

mysterious

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Possibly. It does mean that the Adare bypass cant be touched until the M20 is resurrected. That could be five years MINIMUM. I dont know why they cant plan a Claregalway relief road style inner bypass though.

But if they built a relief road on top of this I can't see how anyone would use the new Adare bypass after. Think about it. You would be insane taking the long road that skirts to Croom, when you have a relief road running straight passed Adare. If there were no traffic holdups in Adare the town would be far quicker than the Adare bypass.

Chris_533976

It is crazy, but its the same thing with Claregalway. Noones going to use the M17 to commute from Tuam etc, as its 12km diversion to Athenry is too much. Everyone will use the Claregalway relief road if it gets built.

The M17 will be the lighest trafficed motorway in the country (well actually the M17 bit across the top of the Rathmorrisey junction will be).

Most of what uses the current N17 traffic is commuter, and few of them are going to use the M17.

mysterious

Chris_533976 wrote: »

It is crazy, but its the same thing with Claregalway. Noones going to use the M17 to commute from Tuam etc, as its 12km diversion to Athenry is too much. Everyone will use the Claregalway relief road if it gets built.

The M17 will be the lighest trafficed motorway in the country (well actually the M17 bit across the top of the Rathmorrisey junction will be).

Most of what uses the current N17 traffic is commuter, and few of them are going to use the M17.

But the real problem is who the NRA hires to do road planning. We could be in danger of veering this off topic. But I'm not going to go down that road:D

Nobody would use the Adare bypass. Honest to god. It adds at least 10 mins onto the journey. It wouldn't even be allowed to have a 120kmh speed limit with the amount of bends it has. The fact that it ends at a roundabout with 5 exits is showing that the NRA obviously don't take advice or lessons from the past. That roundabout will end up having traffic lights put onto it, as you have the N21, The old N20 and the Croom town interchange are all joining here.

Tech3

I got an email back about this, the route options are being published tomorrow.

The Indicative Route Corridor Options not available yet.

I’m attaching a copy of the advert indicating the locations, dates and times of the Public Consultation which commences tomorrow in Newcastle West at 2pm – 8:30pm.

If you can’t make it, a copy of the Brochure and Questionaire will be available on our website www.midwestroads.ie from tomorrow.

I gathered this off an article

Work on the proposed double bypass of Newcastle West and Abbeyfeale is on hold and will not start until 2011 at the earliest, Sean O'Neill of the National Roads Authority confirmed

Link

Chris_533976

2011 at the earliest

Add about 5 or 10 to that figure!

mysterious

Since its 2+2 and land values plummeting I dont see why they wont push this through.

Chris_533976

Quite simply the country is borderline broke

In any case the PPPs (including Adare) should be ahead of this, as should a batch of other schemes such as N28 Ringaskiddy, Cork SRRs, Slane bypass, Longford, etc. I'm not saying it shouldnt be done, but its not at the top of the priority list.

mysterious

Recessions are "illusions" Chris seriously.

Money doesn't dissapear. Someone hides it. Money prints all the time. The only real thing is happening is the ones with the money are creating fear and hiding the money so we become enslaved and falling into delusion.


The world still exists, and we still exist. The world will still be here with or without money. If it goes we will find new ways to balance our reality. Because right now your off the balance.

Roryhy

mysterious wrote: »

Recessions are "illusions" Chris seriously.

Money doesn't dissapear. Someone hides it. Money prints all the time. The only real thing is happening is the ones with the money are creating fear and hiding the money so we become enslaved and falling into delusion.


The world still exists, and we still exist. The world will still be here with or without money. If it goes we will find new ways to balance our reality. Because right now your off the balance.

That's very deep and philosophical for an infrastructure forum:D

nordydan

mysterious wrote: »

Recessions are "illusions" Chris seriously.

Money doesn't dissapear. Someone hides it. Money prints all the time. The only real thing is happening is the ones with the money are creating fear and hiding the money so we become enslaved and falling into delusion.


The world still exists, and we still exist. The world will still be here with or without money. If it goes we will find new ways to balance our reality. Because right now your off the balance.

You are turning into the resident hippy here. Firstly the M7 should be renamed "the road that leads to the end of the rainbow" and now this.

I can't see any reference to it but I'll assume its all 2+2 as per the Castleisland Bypass.

Zoney

If they are talking about dual carriageway to NCW, it could be actual D2 with hard shoulder between Adare and there, and 2+2 after. To be honest I think it should be that - at least going by traffic volumes through Adare (which a bypass of Adare will only encourage on the new road, especially when linked to an M20).

Tech3

Route options went on public display today. Heres the three route corridor options.



http://www.midwestroads.ie/N21%20Abbeyfeale%20Adare/Pdf/Brochure.pdf

I'd like to see this get pushed up the priority tree. The blue one looks the most straightest nut a bit too long for my liking. Zoney it would be interesting to know whether it will be dc from Adare to Newcastle west but I think it may be overkill. I reckon its 2+2 for all of the scheme.

Amtmann

mysterious wrote: »

Recessions are "illusions" Chris seriously.

Money doesn't dissapear. Someone hides it. Money prints all the time. The only real thing is happening is the ones with the money are creating fear and hiding the money so we become enslaved and falling into delusion.


The world still exists, and we still exist. The world will still be here with or without money. If it goes we will find new ways to balance our reality. Because right now your off the balance.

Mysterious, this isn't the Conspiracy Theories forum.

L1011

All end up coming back on to the old N21 same as the Adare route does - why are they not linking them together properly?

mysterious

Furet wrote: »

Mysterious, this isn't the Conspiracy Theories forum.

Furet, It was a quick response to Chris point about "no money" it's basic economics. I think the point is very valid. If we don't get the point. Are we just kidding ourselves continuing to ignore it and live in the delusion we can't do anything with no money.

If people keep this up and pretending it doesn't affect us, We will not be dicussing on this forum anymore as there will be nothing in relation to infrastructure will be built in this country. Apologies for side tracking a bit. It needs to be adressed with common sense and not this fear we are been fed with. These are facts not theories.

But in question of the route selections.

The red or orange is ok with me. Though I would rather my own route selection as the Listowel road has catchement onto the route I've posted. In this route selection it doesn't whatsoever. I agree with MYOB the joining points of the Two major schemes tie ins onto the old N21 a bit absurd. Oh I don't know what to say, but whoever ever is making route selections


Need to just stop. Put up the drawing paper and hang up the jacket.

The Word Is Bor

MYOB wrote: »

All end up coming back on to the old N21 same as the Adare route does - why are they not linking them together properly?

There is a black link at the the Adare end which would appear to tie into nothing. This would tie in nicely with the proposed Adare bypass, as outlined in May.

irishpaddy

Looks like my house will be demolished no matter what route is chosen. When are they to make a final decision on the route?

nordydan

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

There is a black link at the the Adare end which would appear to tie into nothing. This would tie in nicely with the proposed Adare bypass, as outlined in May.

Thatls what I thought, the dogleg (heading back north) at the western end of the proposed Adare Bypass may turn out to be a spur of appprox 1km, with the realigned N21 to Abbeyfeale running in a western direction:

http://www.midwestroads.ie/N21%20Adare%20Bypass/Pdf/N21%20Public%20Brochure%20Preferred%20Route.pdf

ch750536

Overlay for Abbeyfeale if you want it

http://n21bypass.blogspot.com

Tech3

ch750536 wrote: »

Overlay for Abbeyfeale if you want it

http://n21bypass.blogspot.com

Good stuff, I see you merged the route options map with the osm one. I havnt seen the route options up close so this must be a close as it gets near Abbeyfeale.

Do you know where the road ties in at? I'm just wondering would they sort out that awful R576 T junction. It could have been done alot better not enough width around that general area no ghost island for right turns heading north.

Tech3

Looking through various articles it is hard to ignore the protesting going on from the

N21 Road Action Association.

Fair enough it ok to protest about the proposed new road scheme but these biased articles left in local papers with inacurate details are getting somewhat tiring.

Firstly they have been banging a figure out on the scheme at over 400 million euro. Where did this figure come from, it wont cost nowhere near as much as that. Secondly, the road has been labelled a motorway when in fact it's not. It looks to be built 2+2 looking through various publications and studying the AADT running through. Finally there has been so much shouting about a toll, where has the NRA mentioned this? Absolutely nowhere. There is no references to back up their statements.

This thread is featured in their dicussion page here

Also a facebook page has started here