Stealing wireless illegal?

finty

I've searched the site and elsewhere for a definite answer to this question but can't find the answer.

Is using someone elses wireless internet without permission illegal?

and can someone point me in the direction of the laws relating to this.

Cheers!

ttm

When was stealing not a crime?

Say I have a cap on my broadband and you download a load of stuff and my service is reduced as a result or I get bill for going over the cap are you suggesting that this is not stealing and costing me either money or service?

Sponge Bob

Yes because interception of communications requires a court order , you fall into the category of an illegal tapper under section 98 of the 1983 telecoms act .

finty

I'm just wondering has it been legislated for.....

mehmeh12

finty wrote: »

I've searched the site and elsewhere for a definite answer to this question but can't find the answer.

Is using someone elses wireless internet without permission illegal?

and can someone point me in the direction of the laws relating to this.

Cheers!

What encryption were they using? have you hacked WPA?

spartan1

are you worried about ethics ? or about getting caught ?

"borrow" away I say

Darksaga87

piggybacking is such a scumbag to do!

Cathaoirleach

Grey area.

Accessing an open Wifi network is not a crime. If you gain access by cracking encryption keys, then it is a crime.

The most you could be done for is tresspassing without intent, which would be difficult to prove in most cases, and not worth the bother.

Irish Law: Breaking and entering is the crime of entering a residence or other enclosed property without authorization and some element of force. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. Without an intent to commit a crime, breaking and entering by itself usually carries a charge of the crime of trespass.

finty

It's actually been happening to me. A tenant in my apartment moved out a few months ago but I've since discovered he moved about 50meters from my apartment and has been using my broadband since with no permission.


He had the password while he lived here, but I thought they'd at least be moving outside the range of my wireless router so I didnt change it.



Just wondered if it was really a crime.........


Thanks for the responses

dub45

Irrespective of the law you are using something that someone else is paying for. You are potentially affecting the performance of the service for the paying customer if they are using it as the same time as you and as someone else pointed out above you are using up someone else's allowance. Surely the legality doesn't matter and you simply should not be doing it.

finty

Not asking about the morality of it, its obviously wrong.

Just interested in the legal position.

Only noticed it today when I was messing around on the router and noticed his computer's name down as on the LAN. Looked at the log for the router and its recorded him connecting (MAC address and computer name) almost everyday since he's moved out.

The irony of it all is that he disputed the last months broadband bill accusing me of overcharging 46cent!!

hilarious!

ttm

Mr.S wrote: »

If its unprotected then go ahead.

If its secured and your breaking into it, then its a nono (still very hard to prove that you did it though..)

I set up a security system at work a few years back and simply logged every mac address, IP and PC name that connected. Unless you are going to change your wireless card or have the sence to spoof the MAC address then you are uniquely identified + if I spotted a hacker I'd also start logging data packets with password and email info so if you downloaded email on my network I could send you an email from yourself asking you not to do it again

finty

ttm wrote: »

I set up a security system at work a few years back and simply logged every mac address, IP and PC name that connected. Unless you are going to change your wireless card or have the sence to spoof the MAC address then you are uniquely identified + if I spotted a hacker I'd also start logging data packets with password and email info so if you downloaded email on my network I could send you an email from yourself asking you not to do it again

ttm

Unfortunately you need an old POP3 type email account for the password logging, I can't get passwords from the likes of Hotmail which uses encryption.

Johnboy1951

So the question is ........ if someone uses a connection without explicit permission can the owner resort to law for damages and if so under what law?

Yes all sorts of nifty things can be done with the 'baddie' but what about recourse to law?

mehmeh12

OP how exaclty did YOU get illegal wireless access- was the network open or did you break in?

Farcear

ttm wrote: »

I set up a security system at work a few years back and simply logged every mac address, IP and PC name that connected. Unless you are going to change your wireless card or have the sence to spoof the MAC address then you are uniquely identified + if I spotted a hacker I'd also start logging data packets with password and email info so if you downloaded email on my network I could send you an email from yourself asking you not to do it again

Wow, that seems like a really good idea. How could someone go about doing this, any tips?

axer

OP at best you have a civil case but you do not have definitive proof here. You say you have a MAC address but I could easily clone someone else's MAC address. Your case is really like trespassing which is a civil one. No encryption was broken since you had already given this person the wireless key.

You should have changed the wireless key.

Nietzschean

mehmeh12 wrote: »

OP how exaclty did YOU get illegal wireless access- was the network open or did you break in?

did you read the whole thread?

L31mr0d

I'm pretty sure even connecting to someones unprotected wireless connection is illegal without permission. The person would need to be caught red handed though I guess.

OP before taking any legal action you might have some fun with the guy that is piggybacking on your internet. There are quite a lot of ways to mess with his connection, my favourite is this one:

http://ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html

zod

L31mr0d wrote: »

I'm pretty sure even connecting to someones unprotected wireless connection is illegal without permission. The person would need to be caught red handed though I guess.

OP before taking any legal action you might have some fun with the guy that is piggybacking on your internet. There are quite a lot of ways to mess with his connection, my favourite is this one:

http://ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html

A lot of modern phones will automatically connect to unsecured wireless networks (iphone) .. and some people actively share them.

ttm

Farcear wrote: »

Wow, that seems like a really good idea. How could someone go about doing this, any tips?

Its suprisingly easy download AirSnare install it and tell it which network interface to listen on, not sure what it OS it works with but I found it fine on any XP based system with a wireless card. I've had one wireless card it had problems with but on the whole very easy. It will also work to an extent on a wired network for intrusion detection as it logs DHCP requests which as they are broadcast will go to all the computers on the network and not normally blocked by a network switch.

Only downside it ties up some rescources on your computer which in an large office enviroment is no real problem as you can dedicate a PC to the job.

AirSnare is getting a bit old but does what it says on the tin.

I'm in a rural area and no one would be hacking my network (WPA2) but if I was in the Town I think I'd have to plug in a couple of Eircom routers (open and the old default WEP not even connected to Broadband) with some form of logging just to see how many people tried to use it.

bk

finty wrote: »

It's actually been happening to me. A tenant in my apartment moved out a few months ago but I've since discovered he moved about 50meters from my apartment and has been using my broadband since with no permission.


He had the password while he lived here, but I thought they'd at least be moving outside the range of my wireless router so I didnt change it.

Given these circumstances, I'd simply change the password and forget about it. Perhaps confront the person with a print out of your logs and ask him/her to pay part of the BB bill.

ttm's suggestion of recording more data, might help with that.

No point in going legal with it, at best it is a civil matter (the Gardai won't be interested) and since you actually gave the person your key and never asked for it back, it would be a legally grey area.

MarkR

http://current.com/items/87191981_how-to-screw-with-people-stealing-your-wireless-internet.htm

whizgremlin

IMO, i think its wrong to steal anything that includes wireless internet! Regardless of it being legal or not, its about having some morals and knowing the difference between right and wrong :rolleyes:

ps: you could always ring the cops and see what they think

jor el

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So the question is ........ if someone uses a connection without explicit permission can the owner resort to law for damages and if so under what law?

Yes all sorts of nifty things can be done with the 'baddie' but what about recourse to law?

The question was answered in the 2nd reply.
you fall into the category of an illegal tapper under section 98 of the 1983 telecoms act

If the OP wants to take it further, he'll need a good solicitor and to take a civil case. Probably not much point though, since he had previously given the wood-be thief the password, and unless he specifically told the other person to stop using it, or changed his password, it could be argued that he had permission to use it.

axer

jor el wrote: »

The question was answered in the 2nd reply.
you fall into the category of an illegal tapper under section 98 of the 1983 telecoms act

If the OP wants to take it further, he'll need a good solicitor and to take a civil case. Probably not much point though, since he had previously given the wood-be thief the password, and unless he specifically told the other person to stop using it, or changed his password, it could be argued that he had permission to use it.

98.—(1) A person who—
[GA]
( a ) intercepts or attempts to intercept, or
[GA]
( b ) authorises, suffers or permits another person to intercept, or
[GA]
( c ) does anything that will enable him or another person to intercept,
[GA]
telecommunications messages being transmitted by the company or who discloses the existence, substance or purport of any such message which has been intercepted or uses for any purpose any information obtained from any such message shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]
(2) Subsection (1) shall not apply to any person who is acting—
[GA]
( a ) (i) for the purpose of an investigation by a member of the Garda Síochána of a suspected offence under section 13 of the Post Office (Amendment) Act, 1951 (which refers to telecommunications messages of an obscene, menacing or similar character) on the complaint of a person claiming to have received such a message, or
[GA]
(ii) in pursuance of a direction issued by the Minister under section 110, or
[GA]
(iii) under other lawful authority, or
[GA]
( b ) in the course of and to the extent required by his operating duties or duties for or in connection with the installation or maintenance of a line, apparatus or equipment for the transmission of telecommunications messages by the company.
[GA]
( 3 ) ( a ) The company may, with the consent of the Minister, make regulations to carry out the intentions of this section in so far as concerns members of its staff.
[GA]
( b ) The Minister, after consultation with the company, may direct the company to make regulations under paragraph (a) or to amend or revoke regulations made under that paragraph and the company shall comply with that direction.
[GA]
( c ) A person who contravenes any regulation under this subsection shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]
( 4 ) ( a ) The Minister may make regulations prohibiting the provision or operation of overhearing facilities in relation to any apparatus (including private branch telephone exchanges) connected to the network of the company otherwise than in accordance with such conditions as he considers to be reasonable and prescribes in the regulations.
[GA]
( b ) A person who contravenes any regulation under this subsection shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]
(5) In this section, "interception" means listening to, or recording by any means, or acquiring the substance or purport of, any telecommunications message without the agreement of the person on whose behalf that message is transmitted by the company and of the person intended by him to receive that message.

I think it would be a hard case to prosecute using the above section.

csm

I'm no lawyer/garda but it reads to me that that piece of legislation would only be useful if someone were intercepting your communications, not just piggybacking your internet. In fact, is it possible that if someone were using your internet and you were logging their packets for evidence purposes, that you could be done for intercepting their communications but that no legislation exists to prosecute them for stealing your internet?