Question for Sky installers

jolsen

Quick question; my uncle recently got multiroom as an existing customer, he ordered it through Sky and when the installer came out he told him he needed to pay him E45 which would go back to Sky if he set foot in the attic.

He got him to set up a magic eye and I think there may have been something else but I'm not sure what, but he charged an extra 80 for that along with the 45. The extra work aside, the E45 for going into an attic seems a bit odd considering he already paid Sky for installation. Is that how it is?

St Senan

If the installer carried public liabilty insurance {highly unlikley} that would cover him to get in a attic your uncle should have not paid him anything to get in an attic. The installer is probably a subcontractor that sky use you could trace him or his bosses through sky and demand the money back. Also €80 is a bit steep for a magic eye/tvlink connected.

ipodrocker

ok, so we are getting sky in on monday, brand new install and getting two boxes install, will the installer go through the attic or not?

steveon

Its depends on the installer some will some wont...I personally hate going into attics but always will if it means a tidier job and if there are suffiicient cabling already pre-installed in the house.

In older houses this is not always the case, alot of attics are packed with stuff and crawl spaces never cleared out in advance of the install taking place. I only run cables outside if no other route is possible but I cannot speak for any other enginner and please note no two jobs are the same...

ipodrocker

ok our house is older house, guess best to clear the attic for the installer

montgolfiere

ipodrocker wrote: »

ok our house is older house, guess best to clear the attic for the installer

dont forget to hoover those pesky cobwebs....my own 'pet hate'
the Skyman

steveon

montgolfiere wrote: »

dont forget to hoover those pesky cobwebs....my own 'pet hate'
the Skyman

I hate cobwebs...comin down from the attic looking like Moses did when he came down from the mountain with the ten commandments lol..

bigpaddy2004

steveon wrote: »

I hate cobwebs...comin down from the attic looking like Moses did when he came down from the mountain with the ten commandments lol..

Or suddenly look down at the rafter you have your hand on just to notice your hand is gone through a dead mouse thats been there for months....UUUgghh!!

steveon

bigpaddy2004 wrote: »

Or suddenly look down at the rafter you have your hand on just to notice your hand is gone through a dead mouse thats been there for months....UUUgghh!!

Can honestly say its never happened me but have come across a few in attics...and had to remove 5 baby ones for some1 once....

bigpaddy2004

steveon wrote: »

Can honestly say its never happened me but have come across a few in attics...and had to remove 5 baby ones for some1 once....

I have countless horror stories from attic's I could tell....

steveon

Me2 but it isnt all about storied in attics some people really have no shame...

bigpaddy2004

I could write a book on my adventures.!

manutd

jolsen wrote: »

Quick question; my uncle recently got multiroom as an existing customer, he ordered it through Sky and when the installer came out he told him he needed to pay him E45 which would go back to Sky if he set foot in the attic.

He got him to set up a magic eye and I think there may have been something else but I'm not sure what, but he charged an extra 80 for that along with the 45. The extra work aside, the E45 for going into an attic seems a bit odd considering he already paid Sky for installation. Is that how it is?

If your paying Sky for installation, the installer SHOULD go and to into the attic. I ever heard this before and it is bullsh*t

bigpaddy2004

A lot of insurance companys will not insure installers if they go into an attic or climb above 30 feet. If your installer was from Sierra or Finlays they wont go into the attic as they are not insured with their current insurer.

manutd

bigpaddy2004 wrote: »

A lot of insurance companys will not insure installers if they go into an attic or climb above 30 feet. If your installer was from Sierra or Finlays they wont go into the attic as they are not insured with their current insurer.

Ah right, i pay installation i what a good a installer who will do a good job.

Tony

I think you need a reality check, with that attitude the installer will most likely just walk away.

manutd wrote: »

Ah right, i pay installation and the instaler will do want i say to him want to do.

St Senan

Their is or used to be a installation terms and conditions paragraph on most contract sheets explaining standard installs. as big paddy said sky themseleves use 2 contract companies Sierra and Finlays to carry out their Sky installs in Ireland these companies sub out the installs to smaller contracters who most likely dont carry public liabialty insurance. With a standard install in most cases the installer has an idea of the install to be carried out at a standard 2 storey semi detached, bungalow or detached house. The dish will go on a wall facing south/south east the cable from dish to tv will be run outside of house to an entry point drilled from inside out. with a typical install like this the customer can forget about the installer entering attics and the dish been put on the chimney.

St Senan

I remember a few years back when we working on Sky contracts after Door to Door sales reps and the amount of abuse and fustration aimed at us installers from the customers. One women living near Wexford town expected us to put her sky dish on the aerial pole disconnect the cable feeding an 8 way amp in the attic connect the dish to the cable so she would have sky on all her tvs now this was the time before sky multiroom. A man in kilmuckridge would only get the job done if the dish was put in his attic. at another install i was handed a bucket of paint to paint the dish and cable while the ladder was still up Also at another house i was greeted with Dont think you are putting up that Disk on my house i was told i needed to have a landline phone to get sky in.
To me personally there is no such thing as a standard install if sky/contract companies paid thier installers a decent rate/price for an install. then maybe they could afford insurance, the job would not be rushed and the customer would not be charged any thing extra.

manutd

scaller wrote: »

I remember a few years back when we working on Sky contracts after Door to Door sales reps and the amount of abuse and fustration aimed at us installers from the customers. One women living near Wexford town expected us to put her sky dish on the aerial pole disconnect the cable feeding an 8 way amp in the attic connect the dish to the cable so she would have sky on all her tvs now this was the time before sky multiroom. A man in kilmuckridge would only get the job done if the dish was put in his attic. at another install i was handed a bucket of paint to paint the dish and cable while the ladder was still up Also at another house i was greeted with Dont think you are putting up that Disk on my house i was told i needed to have a landline phone to get sky in.
To me personally there is no such thing as a standard install if sky/contract companies paid thier installers a decent rate/price for an install. then maybe they could afford insurance, the job would not be rushed and the customer would not be charged any thing extra.

Well said, with all the money Sky is getting, but they cannot pay insurance. My instaler, i got Sky in 2001 was happy to go into the attic.

St Senan

manutd wrote: »

Well said, with all the money Sky is getting, but they cannot pay insurance. My instaler, i got Sky in 2001 was happy to go into the attic.

What you and other people have to realise is that sky dont pay a weeks wages to any installer in ireland its all contract work so its either up to the installer or the company he works for for to sort out insurance. What sky or sales reps have to do is make the customer understand about installs standard and non standard instead of small print on a booklet explaining it. With Eircom for example its a connection to the socket inside the front door and thats it. With a Sky install its the installer that does everything that customer tells him to do which is wrong. I hate getting in to attics 9 times out of 10 the sparks has made a Balls of the tv wiring or used Crap cable But as Tony always says the sparks dont have to make it all work. the most common thing thats said to me from customers is the Electrician has all the wiring done and its waiting for you in the attic. So i open the Attic hatch a low and behold there is no lights and the whole place is covered in double fibreglass insulation and the cables are no where to be seen. I dont get paid any thing extra from my boss to move fibre glass and then put it back neatly with out putting my foot through a ceiling. Regarding Tv units corner units and ornamemts thats another job moving them without breaking anything and then the women of the house comes running with a rag or duster to clean around the tv unit. Now all this should be done by the customer either the night before or early that morning and then that would make the job a standard install

zagmund

The problem here (from the customers point of view) is that they don't know or care that Sky have sub-contracted the job out to some bloke who may or may not have insurance and may or may not like 5m ladders, 10m ladders, pink houses, people from D4, etc . . . All they know is that they are buying a service which includes installation and Sky are supposed to provide this - through contactors if they want, but the contract for installation is between the customer and Sky. Of course, customers who expect dishes to be painted, the installer to move the entire livingroom furniture, etc . . . are asking too much.

Sky also don't care - once you've signed on the dotted line they have you by the curlies for the next 12 months no matter what happens with your install.

Imagine if you bought a fitted kitchen and when the lads came out to fit it up they said it was a non-standard install and it's going to cost extra money. This doesn't happen in reality because before it gets to this someone comes out to measure the kitchen, size it up, etc . . .this can't happen with Skys €50 (or free) install model but this is not the customers fault. Really, what's happening here is that Sky are providing a poor installation service and hiding behind theuir contractors.

z

Tony

Very well said, great post.

zagmund wrote: »

The problem here (from the customers point of view) is that they don't know or care that Sky have sub-contracted the job out to some bloke who may or may not have insurance and may or may not like 5m ladders, 10m ladders, pink houses, people from D4, etc . . . All they know is that they are buying a service which includes installation and Sky are supposed to provide this - through contactors if they want, but the contract for installation is between the customer and Sky. Of course, customers who expect dishes to be painted, the installer to move the entire livingroom furniture, etc . . . are asking too much.

Sky also don't care - once you've signed on the dotted line they have you by the curlies for the next 12 months no matter what happens with your install.

Imagine if you bought a fitted kitchen and when the lads came out to fit it up they said it was a non-standard install and it's going to cost extra money. This doesn't happen in reality because before it gets to this someone comes out to measure the kitchen, size it up, etc . . .this can't happen with Skys €50 (or free) install model but this is not the customers fault. Really, what's happening here is that Sky are providing a poor installation service and hiding behind theuir contractors.

z

jolsen

Cheers for all the responses, I pointed my uncle towards this topic. He was happy with the setup the installer did, I got the impression he was screwed around by other installers before although I have no idea how awkward or easy the job would have been.

St Senan

zagmund wrote: »

The problem here (from the customers point of view) is that they don't know or care that Sky have sub-contracted the job out to some bloke who may or may not have insurance and may or may not like 5m ladders, 10m ladders, pink houses, people from D4, etc . . . All they know is that they are buying a service which includes installation and Sky are supposed to provide this - through contactors if they want, but the contract for installation is between the customer and Sky. Of course, customers who expect dishes to be painted, the installer to move the entire livingroom furniture, etc . . . are asking too much.

Sky also don't care - once you've signed on the dotted line they have you by the curlies for the next 12 months no matter what happens with your install.

Imagine if you bought a fitted kitchen and when the lads came out to fit it up they said it was a non-standard install and it's going to cost extra money. This doesn't happen in reality because before it gets to this someone comes out to measure the kitchen, size it up, etc . . .this can't happen with Skys €50 (or free) install model but this is not the customers fault. Really, what's happening here is that Sky are providing a poor installation service and hiding behind theuir contractors.

z

Well said Sky dont give a hoot how the job is done. This thing of standard install non standard install free install this free digibox that is pure sales ploy crap. I used to install for a Shop in New Ross where the Price to get Sky was €150 which covered any sort of install and paid us well. As i said before in a previous thread if the sales person{ Sky call centre, door to door, sky kiosk} took the time to explain to the customer about dish position cable run and phone cable run i think there would be less grief for the installer also if you pay for a cheap install all you will get is a cheap install done thats the problem with a lot of sky's work At the moment there is a lot of people out there selling sky for differant install companys and there is a lot of new installers out there with no proper training.

also

Regarding fitted kitchens i have know of some cases where the kitchen fitters charged Extra to cut out work tops for sinks and electric hobs.

manutd

zagmund wrote: »

The problem here (from the customers point of view) is that they don't know or care that Sky have sub-contracted the job out to some bloke who may or may not have insurance and may or may not like 5m ladders, 10m ladders, pink houses, people from D4, etc . . . All they know is that they are buying a service which includes installation and Sky are supposed to provide this - through contactors if they want, but the contract for installation is between the customer and Sky. Of course, customers who expect dishes to be painted, the installer to move the entire livingroom furniture, etc . . . are asking too much.

Sky also don't care - once you've signed on the dotted line they have you by the curlies for the next 12 months no matter what happens with your install.

Imagine if you bought a fitted kitchen and when the lads came out to fit it up they said it was a non-standard install and it's going to cost extra money. This doesn't happen in reality because before it gets to this someone comes out to measure the kitchen, size it up, etc . . .this can't happen with Skys €50 (or free) install model but this is not the customers fault. Really, what's happening here is that Sky are providing a poor installation service and hiding behind theuir contractors.

z

well saided, Sky do not care about their customers, as they will say anything to get you sign on the dotted line and they leave you until you call to cancel.

bigpaddy2004

manutd wrote: »

Ah right, i pay installation i what a good a installer who will do a good job.

If you want a cheap job done go direct to Sky, On the other hand if you are in love with your home and dont want shoddy work done, pay a little extra and go to an independant.
This has been talked to death before here about the difference between Sky direct and local agents. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

zagmund

bigpaddy - from the consumers point of view they don't know that they get what they pay for until after the fact. Until they get their cable run through their gutter and a shoddy finish inside the house (in my case) they just assume that buying Sky through Sky is the same as buying Sky through a reseller. This is where the recently formed installers organisation can help make a difference - work on the information campaign so people know about the differences in adance.

Put it this way, at the moment the choice (from a consumers perspective) is to pay a local installer €150 for the install or pay Sky €50 - in the absence of any other information which would you chose ?

z

bigpaddy2004

zagmund wrote: »

bigpaddy - from the consumers point of view they don't know that they get what they pay for until after the fact. Until they get their cable run through their gutter and a shoddy finish inside the house (in my case) they just assume that buying Sky through Sky is the same as buying Sky through a reseller. This is where the recently formed installers organisation can help make a difference - work on the information campaign so people know about the differences in adance.

Put it this way, at the moment the choice (from a consumers perspective) is to pay a local installer €150 for the install or pay Sky €50 - in the absence of any other information which would you chose ?

z

This is very true, very true indeed. First of all a local installer should not be charging you 200% more than Sky just to run a cable through your attic space unless of course there is something else involved (non-standard installation) that we dont know about yet. If they are, they are gangsters, keep well away, plenty of other agents in your area I am sure which are much more honest.

As far as Sky themselves are concerned, I personally dont think they give a monkeys what way your system is installed once the card is switched on so they can activate the DD to your account. Sky will advertise as best they can to get the sale, and pay as little as possible to have it fitted. They really dont care about other subscribers, you or your home, they are however more interested in your money coming in.

manutd

zagmund wrote: »

bigpaddy - from the consumers point of view they don't know that they get what they pay for until after the fact. Until they get their cable run through their gutter and a shoddy finish inside the house (in my case) they just assume that buying Sky through Sky is the same as buying Sky through a reseller. This is where the recently formed installers organisation can help make a difference - work on the information campaign so people know about the differences in adance.

Put it this way, at the moment the choice (from a consumers perspective) is to pay a local installer €150 for the install or pay Sky €50 - in the absence of any other information which would you chose ?

z

Well said zagmund, people think Sky will do the same as a local installer.

St Senan

bigpaddy2004 wrote: »

This is very true, very true indeed. First of all a local installer should not be charging you 200% more than Sky just to run a cable through your attic space unless of course there is something else involved (non-standard installation) that we dont know about yet. If they are, they are gangsters, keep well away, plenty of other agents in your area I am sure which are much more honest..

Paddy 10 years ago if a person wanted the new up and coming sky digital they went to a local shop or aerial installer chose their box from a choice of 3 Amstrad, Pace, Grundig. they paid up to £400 irish to get the system installed and their was no such thing as standard install. The shop i worked for that charges €150 got no comision from sky in fact they were finding it hard a long with a lot more ASA,s to claw back the money from sky that was owed to them. The €150 coverd extra cable if needed T+K brackets if needed chimney install if needed and us installers got a decent rate on the install the customers were not charged anything extra. I reckon if sky had of done the same and kept the install price at €150 say since day 1 of the switch over in the Year 2000 instead of been greedy customers would still pay for it. people now know that they can get a sky install for next to nothing.

bigpaddy2004

Paddy 10 years ago if a person wanted the new up and coming sky digital they went to a local shop or aerial installer chose their box from a choice of 3 Amstrad, Pace, Grundig. they paid up to £400 irish to get the system installed and their was no such thing as standard install.

Over the years, not only myself but all the other agents around me noticed that the cheaper and cheaper it became for people to get Sky installed, the more they expected.

The shop i worked for that charges €150 got no comision from sky in fact they were finding it hard a long with a lot more ASA,s to claw back the money from sky that was owed to them. The €150 coverd extra cable if needed T+K brackets if needed chimney install if needed and us installers got a decent rate on the install the customers were not charged anything extra.

That was understandable as Sky did not pay out any commision back then. But these days its just rip off installers quoteing high prices for standard jobs.
When Sky introduced that all STBS's had to be connected to the phonelines some years back, did they componsate the installers for their extra time and consumables for doing the work? Hell no.

I reckon if sky had of done the same and kept the install price at €150 say since day 1 of the switch over in the Year 2000 instead of been greedy customers would still pay for it. people now know that they can get a sky install for next to nothing.

The more you give people the more they expect. This is why most of them expect the sun moon and stars for little or nothing.

St Senan

Very true paddy indeed. But there should be no such thing as a standard install there should be a fixed price that would cover the job if extras are needed. Regarding your point about the phone line myself and a few other installers i know dont bother with phone lines any more the customer can get Eircom engineers to sort that out.