Pepper spray

Bosco boy

Whats the story with this new Pepper spray, when can it be used and is it effective?

Bosco boy

Bosco boy wrote: »

Whats the story with this new Pepper spray, when can it be used and is it effective?

Look up youtube to see how effective it is and it can be used when appropriate force is necessary. There is a document on the Garda website about it also.

I'm listening

Youtube Pepperspray

donvito99

There was a piece in The I. Times today saying that the first 300 Gardaí had been trained in the use of Pepper Spray and had been issued with it.

Thoie

I'm not being funny, but other than "aim away from your own face" and "hold your breath", how much training is needed?

donvito99

Thoie wrote: »

I'm not being funny, but other than "aim away from your own face" and "hold your breath", how much training is needed?

I guess 'when' to use it would be a biggy, ie. how not to get Garda management into a lawsuit.

Hooch

Thoie wrote: »

I'm not being funny, but other than "aim away from your own face" and "hold your breath", how much training is needed?

When to use, when not to use, the ethics behind it, civil rights implications, the make up of it, how to draw it from belt safely, how to aim properly, where to aim, how to discharge it, what to say when discharging it, the effects on user, the effects on person sprayed, the possible effects on surrounding members/public, how to treat a person sprayed directly, how to treat a person sprayed indirectly, how to report the use of it, what to do with used canister, how to get a new canister.......etc etc etc

Its a little bit more complicated that point and shoot;)


Edit: just to add folks, if anyone has done the training, please do not release any information that is not in the public domain. As I havint done it I do not know the content of training.

Thoie

Thanks both. We really need to come up with an alternative phrase that conveys all that information to non-members

ste88m

Did the training.

What I can say is that the warning is similiar to the new armed garda warning. ie. You must identify yourself by shouting Garda, Police. Then your command.

Won't say anything else. I'm fearful of NGA now he's a mod.

(Mod's feel free to delete the above, though as the armed garda warning has been mentioned before in the ES forum, I think it's ok to mention.)

sdanseo

This Garda/Police thing is rubbish. If someone has come to this country and not bothered to learn the NAME of the police force (or indeed been under a rock since stepping off the plane) then they deserve to be sprayed just for that :pac:

In fact I saw a vid on youtube of a Garda van with the response "what emergency services do the Garda provide?"...pffffft mind but the fella was from a place where all police also have "Heddlu" stamped on them.

Irish_polizei

nice guy always wrote: »

When to use, when not to use, the ethics behind it, civil rights implications, the make up of it, how to draw it from belt safely, how to aim properly, where to aim, how to discharge it, what to say when discharging it, the effects on user, the effects on person sprayed, the possible effects on surrounding members/public, how to treat a person sprayed directly, how to treat a person sprayed indirectly, how to report the use of it, what to do with used canister, how to get a new canister.......etc etc etc

Its a little bit more complicated that point and shoot;)


Edit: just to add folks, if anyone has done the training, please do not release any information that is not in the public domain. As I havint done it I do not know the content of training.

oh F*#K....

norrie_1001

Lots of rumors going round that we have to get sprayed with it ourselves during the training. Is this true? The thought of that is not too pleasing.

Irish_polizei

haha, are you mad in the head long lol, were you based? just give the region!!

norrie_1001

contae tiobraid arann

Irish_polizei

norrie_1001 wrote: »

contae tiobraid arann

Ahaha, beidh tu ina chonai sa Pollys....séa? :L

ste88m

norrie_1001 wrote: »

Lots of rumors going round that we have to get sprayed with it ourselves during the training. Is this true? The thought of that is not too pleasing.

No, some forces in the UK do it but we don't.. We should to be honest though. It would give us an idea what it is like to get sprayed and would more than likely make you think twice before you deploy the spray and spray someone. The only thing you're sprayed with in training is a 'training can' with pressurised water in it.

norrie_1001

Irish_polizei wrote: »

Ahaha, beidh tu ina chonai sa Pollys....séa? :L

ní hea, dúrlas.

thanks ste, that settles the rumor

Shield

ste88m wrote: »

No, some forces in the UK do it

No they don't. You can't even volunteer to get sprayed. They used to do it years ago, but it was decided at a high level that, since you don't need to be shot to carry a firearm, you don't need to be sprayed in the face to carry spray.

Nice rumour though.

PetrovthePrat

Just to veer a little of topic,I heard the "sprayed in the face" rumour from some American mates . The army and marines are pretty gung ho for spraying it in certain training modules,but the civilian police they knew never ever had to do it. I wonder how long it'll be before the media are waxing lyrical about alleged misuse?

the locust

I attended a training college in north america and got to sit in on a few of thier oc/pepper spray training classes...

They had partners and took it in turns to spray each other. In one class once sprayed you had to attack an asp bag find your radio which the instructor would turf in a random direction on the ground 10 feet away and you then had to locate it and call for assistance on your radio. (seemed to be pretty tough when your eyes are on fire!)
The idea being that you can be sprayed yourself - cross contaminated by a colleague accidentally or wind etc and also a lot of crims have access to spray themselves - especially in Canada you can buy it at walmart for 'bear defence!'

Very interesting. The instructor reiterated from experience that regularly he got a wiff in the face during a struggle and had to continue to get cuffs on the guy and then drive the prisoner back to the station. So they sprayed each other with the real thing for those reasons that you know what to expect and you know what your dishing out.

Zambia

I agree if your going to dish it out you should at least know what if feels like so you don't go mental spraying it like Lynx.

Or the opposite like breath freshener and just annoy the offender enough to really knock your lights in.

Same goes for tazers.

darragh o meara

It would be a good idea for all users to be given a live demo on themselves to show how it works, I unfortunately have had first hand experience of this when somebody set off a canister in a chipper iwas in a few weeks ago after the disco!!!! stung like hell.. A very good friend of mine WAS sprayed as part of his training with the Met but this was about 8 years ago so might have changed policy since.

In fairness most pepper spray is in the armament of many a scumbag along with tazers and other very dangerous items. people exposed to this a few times can become immune or train thmselves to be immune to pepper spray. Tazers are a better job cant see anyone being immune from them

civdef

When I was trained with CS 5 years ago in the UK, a "voluntary exposure" was part of the course. Wasn't pleasant, but at least you knew what it was like before you got cross-contaminated, which seemed to be every time it got used.

the locust

I can just imagine pressing the button on a very windy night in ireland and the stuff just gusting down the main street across a group of onlookers!

Shield

Grrrrrr...... Bystanders....... Grrrrrrr......

psni

psni wrote: »

No they don't. You can't even volunteer to get sprayed. They used to do it years ago, but it was decided at a high level that, since you don't need to be shot to carry a firearm, you don't need to be sprayed in the face to carry spray.

Nice rumour though.

Greater Manchester Police still do it...but maybe not after this incident.

drunkmonkey

And speaking in irish dosent give away your cover... : )

Shield

foreign wrote: »

Greater Manchester Police still do it...but maybe not after this incident.

I stand very corrected, but I know we don't do it. I heard that it wasn't being done anymore for this exact reason. Ka-ching Ka-ching if walking through was mandatory.

ste88m

Yeah, we we're told it was done by UK forces as a voluntary thing, didn't think they we're made walk through it though.

10 times the strength of the stuff they'd be subjected to if cross-contaminated, now that's an accident waiting to happen!!

the locust

Correct me if i'm wrong but as I understand it OC/Pepper Spray and CS are two totally different agents? From what i hear CS is the more widely used in the UK? As i understand:-
OC/Pepper Spray is basically a derived natural pepper extract
CS is a more chemically manufactured agent and is more harmful in terms of burns and works on the mucus and breathing etc... (originally intended for military use, But adapted for police work?)

Interestingly - Canadian RCMP recruits DO NOT graduate unless they have got a good three second burst in the face of OC spray - fact. Its written into the welcome package when you sign up and everything!
I would volunteer to be sprayed with the OC but from what i've heard about CS no thank you!

maglite

They are different.

Try washing out OC spray....

ste88m

the locust wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong but as I understand it OC/Pepper Spray and CS are two totally different agents? From what i hear CS is the more widely used in the UK? As i understand:-
OC/Pepper Spray is basically a derived natural pepper extract
CS is a more chemically manufactured agent and is more harmful in terms of burns and works on the mucus and breathing etc... (originally intended for military use, But adapted for police work?)

Interestingly - Canadian RCMP recruits DO NOT graduate unless they have got a good three second burst in the face of OC spray - fact. Its written into the welcome package when you sign up and everything!
I would volunteer to be sprayed with the OC but CS no thank you!

No you're right, but the problem with CS spray is that apperantly 1 in 10 people are immune to it, so are dogs. On the other hand, very few people are immune to OC. However, you can build up a resistance to Pepper Spray / OC if subjected to it enough.

civdef

You'll also know very early if a prisoner coming into the station has been gassed, you can pick up the whiff as soon as they get out of the back of the van.

It gets A&E all annoyed if you need to bring them there too.

Turner

Happy to have my OC spray now on my belt

Who do we have to thank, Catherine O Toole is it??

Hooch

Chief--- wrote: »

Happy to have my OC spray now on my belt

Who do we have to thank, Catherine O Toole is it??

We have to thank Catherine O Toole.....you have to thank the tool of an instructor that accually certified you:p:p:D:D:pac::pac:

I know, I know....me, coat, door!!!

murf313

CS gas is no fun at all. I got a blast of it in army recruit training. its supposed to simulate NBC training, so you go into the gas chamber, do a few exercises and then take of your mask and (try to) say number, rank, name!
its torture, it burns everything moist, so your eyes, mouth and nose feel like they are on fire

Zambia

Back in 95 we all thought it would be fun to see what mace was like. That was no fun.

The only spray I have is one to use on Dogs. I have never seen it tested so I am really taking my gaffers word it works.

We where issued it after a few of the guards where biten by Dogs let loose on them on site without proper notification or by "hard lads".

deadwood

I'll take c.s. over O.C. any day.

Turner

deadwood wrote: »

I'll take c.s. over O.C. any day.

Counterstrike?? Me Too

donvito99

deadwood wrote: »

I'll take c.s. over O.C. any day.

The OC? The Hills is where its at Deadwood....tcsh....

norrie_1001

Did the training this week and now have the pepper spray on my belt.
Can't say whether i'm glad to have it or not, hope I never have to use it to be honest.
---snip---

civdef

That's pretty much how it works in the UK, baton has more risk of causing injury, so is higher on the use of force scale.

dmainman

"Making grown men cry since 1975", quality.