Using the Internet to introduce genuine democracy

magma69

It is something I have been pondering for a while now. I realise that it would be a huge task to undergo but I think it is the best way to put power back into the hands of the people. A system where every citizen in Ireland is given a chance to vote on a weekly or bi weekly basis on the big decisions of how our government runs out nation. The biggest difficulty in this system is ensuring it is secure and free from corruption. Our current system is completely flawed as it is. We elect a party who can do whatever the hell they like once elected and, for the most part, do not care for the common citizens. The idea is certainly food for thought.

bonkey

I'm qute a fan of the Swiss system myself.

Roughly-speaking, there's referenda 4 times a year. Votes can be postal, in person, SMS (at least on successful trials) and I believe internet-based is also coming in.

There is a system by which the public can force a referendum on any issue, which has to be held within a certain amount of time (something like 4 years).

Given that it would be considered political suicide to push something through which then resulted in people organising a referendum which subsequently overturned it, most politicians tend to accept that any major decision goes to the public anyway. If they don't, very often their opposition does.

Personally, I don't think its desirable to go to the public too often. We have politicians for a reason...and that reason should be to represent our interests and to be dedicated to making informed decisions.

DoireNod

Can you elaborate?

Victor

One needs to strike a balance between excessive populism, oppression by the majority, cost and active participation. You also need to balance between binding and non-binding referendums. Referendums need to separate public opinion on government performance and meaningful opinion on the actual topic being voted on.

Ireland has too few referendums, at sporadic intervals on often secondary issues. Some Americans states have too many. Switzerland would seem to have a reasonable balance.

My personal opinion is that any proposal that gets more than about 80% support is either watered down or populism (Free Beer!!!).

Any result getting 51% support is marginal and fickle enough that it would have gone a different way if the weather / TV schedule / day of week was different. The measure is excessive and lacks broad support.

Public consultation is a different means of determining the public's opinion and is more likely to deal with the merits of an issue than simply win by a majority of votes. The problem however, is that there is the risk that only those directly affected (often NIMBYs), pressure groups and hte like will comment, with few parties taking the actual public interest into account.

ei.sdraob

ahem electronic voting disaster ahem ahem


how would your system work when it comes to making up the budget ?

DeVore

Benevolent dictatorship with public consultation for the mofo win.


Drunken DeV.

SparkyLarks

Sometimes we need politicians to protect us from ourselves. If we went our to referendums tomorrow how would the vote go on

Public service numbers
Tax
health spending
Education
and the like.

Would we do so on each issue or would we actually have joined up thinking.
We need someone to actually run the country, it's up to them to actually balance the books.

DoireNod

SparkyLarks wrote: »

Sometimes we need politicians to protect us from ourselves....

I stopped after this. Re-think, son.

Earthhorse

I'd be very skeptical that something like this could work; leaving aside the ability to identify people online and ensure the system is secure, I just don't think people are informed enough on most decisions to make the right one. I'd prefer to see the internet used first as a means of distributing, and helping people digest, the vast amount of information out there on a broad range of topics that are actually relevant to them and impact their lives. Once people can speak knowledgeably on the issue being discussed you might not even need to put issues to the public vote.

Though what bonkey has said about the Swiss systems suggests my skepticism may be unfounded.

thebman

Earthhorse wrote: »

I'd be very skeptical that something like this could work; leaving aside the ability to identify people online and ensure the system is secure, I just don't think people are informed enough on most decisions to make the right one. I'd prefer to see the internet used first as a means of distributing, and helping people digest, the vast amount of information out there on a broad range of topics that are actually relevant to them and impact their lives. Once people can speak knowledgeably on the issue being discussed you might not even need to put issues to the public vote.

Though what bonkey has said about the Swiss systems suggests my skepticism may be unfounded.

Having worked in tech support I can say that people don't use the Internet to get information, its used to get football results, makeup/shoe advice and p0rn.

Only people interested in the topic will use the Internet to get information about it. The rest will stay willfully ignorant. In fact the best thing would be to bring in Internet voting and only post the news online. That way the people that don't care won't find out about it and since they don't do their homework, they wouldn't try to educate themselves on any issues anywhere so you remove the ignorant percentage of the electorate :P

SparkyLarks

DoireNod wrote: »

I stopped after this. Re-think, son.

Way to keep an open mind, I did elaborate and it;s not a long post.

I didn\'t say that they always did it.but that is because out politicans in this counrty are mainly incompetant, and at the very least many are morally ambiguous. and that is our fault for voting them in.

i.e. Lowry, keeps topping the polls.

Surely people must have though that Bertie was up to something walking around with large bags of cash, and yet not only was he voted in with 2 surpuses practically, WE row in behind his party.

They say you get the Govt we deserve, maybe we need to start trying to vote in people who we think can run a cournty rather tha a politican whe can get favours done for us.

I\'m not saying that politicans in other courntreis are all saints but at least in the most part in western domecrocys when people are implicated in scandles they resign, and the population don\'t vote them back in.

Does anyone doubt that if John O\'Donoghue had to go for the people of Kerry tomorrow if he would be voted in.