Why don't long distance runner take their diets more seriously?

von Neumann

I know one or two body builders and even at a recreational level they take their diet so much more seriously....where as the runners I know at the same level feel their running is an excuse to eat pretty much anything .

Both are extemely demanding activities, so why the huge gap in diets?

As an aside I've been reading up on PTH and calcuim (again something bodybuilders take more seriously) basicly if there isn't enough calcium in the blood PTH is released and breaks down muscle to retrieve the calcium. and similiar action occur for magensium... has any runner try suplimenting their diet to with these two minerals in order to prevent muscle waistage? and what results have then seen?

(Apologies can I get this moved to the main forum please!)

buck65

Maybe because we burn so many calories in distance running we feel we can afford to be more liberal with the cream?
I once read that Bill Rodgers , after a long run , would sit in front of the refrigerator and spoon mayonaise directly down. When asked he said he didn't know did he run so he could to this or did he do this because of the running!
Anyway maybe your post is too general, I watch my diet a good bit, sure I'll binge but I'll also run for 2.5 hrs so ...

tunney

von Neumann wrote: »

I know one or two body builders and even at a recreational level they take their diet so much more seriously....where as the runners I know at the same level feel their running is an excuse to eat pretty much anything .

Both are extemely demanding activities, so why the huge gap in diets?

As an aside I've been reading up on PTH and calcuim (again something bodybuilders take more seriously) basicly if there isn't enough calcium in the blood PTH is released and breaks down muscle to retrieve the calcium. and similiar action occur for magensium... has any runner try suplimenting their diet to with these two minerals in order to prevent muscle waistage? and what results have then seen?

(Apologies can I get this moved to the main forum please!)

Not saying its related but the average times for long distance runners (non-elite) have gotten alot slower too.

bourne99

I think also vanity comes into it, somewhat. I used to be a regular in a gym back in my rugby days and my goodness, in the changing room they would talk about this stuff all day long. How they'd eat three meals and this and that, and what they could and couldn't eat. I know some of these guys went to compete in body building events, and these same guys would *really* spend a long time looking at themselves in the mirror. Now, yes, we're all guilty of it, but some take it to an extreme, and if you are desperate for a certain *look* well then, I'm sure you'll do anything to get there.

I've always been lean rather than heavy, and it was always a conscious effort to put on weight. Indeed, the only way it ever worked was by going to the gym daily and pushing like crazy. The heaviest I got was about 12.5 stone, but in hindsight, I was totally 'ripped'. I suppose I ate more than now, but that's about it.

Nowadays, like most runners (I think), I personally couldn't give a sod about my appearance. Sure most runners even shave their head just because it's more practical! Last year, when I was running quite well (was just hitting top 10 positions when I stopped), I weighed about 10.5 stone and never altered or even thought about my diet. I'd easily sit down after a run and eat ice cream and a packet of bics.

Even before runs, I've never done the porridge thing etc. and carbo-loading stuff, and don't intend to. It's cheating!!!

Can I just say, btw, that having been a pumped up gym guy, and then a bit of a runner, IMO, there is no comparison and running (a fast race) is ten times harder than pumping iron in the gym. Indeed, I would classify some of the running races I've done as some of the hardest things I've ever done full stop, and I can't really say that about rugby/squash/gym etc. Sure they're hard, but they're not 'I'll remember this when I'm 80' hard. There's just no let-up in running. No breaks. Different mentalities/disciplines etc.

scottreynolds

von Neumann wrote: »

... has any runner try suplimenting their diet to with these two minerals in order to prevent muscle waistage

I'm not 100% on the exact relationship between body building and running. Indeed muscle loss isn't that big a deal for runners in the same way it is for body building. Most runners would focus on the single number, oh I'm 99kg, this week not...... oh I have 7.34% body fat. The purposes and goals are different for runners. We eat for fuel for running nothing else really.... looks don't matter as long as your running.

Alot of runners runners do pay attentioan to there diets... I've been monitoring mine and also planning intakes for long runs etc.. marathons and longer ... its just that we aren't as obsessed a body builders cause they have specific body goals.

Lastly, perhaps age has something to do with it --- being general most body builders would be less than 30 where as running is more of a spread of ages whe.

goofygirl

I'd agree that with the observation that maybe it's more a vanity thing (not that I'm implying bodybuilders are vain people so please no one fly off the handle).

I don't run so I can have the hottest body imaginable or anything - I remember thinking about half way through a 16 mile run a few weeks ago "Jesus, if I wanted to be skinny there'd be easier ways than this". I run because I love the freedom, the challenge both mental and physical, seeing how far I can push myself.

For me, running is part of an overall "everything in moderation" approach. I know that I'm not unhealthy or unfit, so I figure there's no point stressing over whether I could be 5lbs lighter or whether my abs are as rippling as I'd like.

Likewise, this sort of mileage does give a certain carte blanche to enjoy your food! I know people can brandish a Mars bar in wide-eyed consternation shouting "You'd need to run for 3 miles to burn this off!!". Fine, no worries, I ran 18 miles on Saturday, 9 miles last night and will do another 4 tonight.

I'm never going to win any races, I'm never even going to win an age category, for me running is about meeting personal goals and enjoying my life ! Which includes enjoying my food rather than obsessing over every bite.

sideswipe

Likewise, this sort of mileage does give a certain carte blanche to enjoy your food! I know people can brandish a Mars bar in wide-eyed consternation shouting "You'd need to run for 3 miles to burn this off!!". Fine, no worries, I ran 18 miles on Saturday, 9 miles last night and will do another 4 tonight.

I'm never going to win any races, I'm never even going to win an age category, for me running is about meeting personal goals and enjoying my life ! Which includes enjoying my food rather than obsessing over every bite.

Agree 100%.
I would go one step further in fact and simply say bodybuilders are vain and self obsessed and only care about body image at any cost.(please feel free to fly of the handle)
People who like running are just as obsessed just not in relation to body image.
Now I'll just put away my tin of tar and my brush away

CaoimheX

sideswipe wrote: »

Agree 100%.
I would go one step further in fact and simply say bodybuilders are vain and self obsessed and only care about body image at any cost.(please feel free to fly of the handle)
People who like running are just as obsessed just not in relation to body image.
Now I'll just put away my tin of tar and my brush away

Thats quite close to the truth

--amadeus--

Simple answer to the question "Why don't long distance runners take thier diet more seriously?"

Because the performance gains aren't worth it, easy as that.

RJC

I actually find the sugar surge from refined sugars hard to deal with (having weaned myself off white bread and biscuits about 5 years ago) so I don't think I ignore my diet. I find that it is hard to fill up with enough fuel.

Some people do treat themselves after a hard session or a long training campaign. Everything in moderation as people say (except running!)

mega man

Alot of bodybuilders diets wouldnt apply to athletes. Its all about appearance with them so they take such and such supplements to gain the muscular appearance at the expence of there long term health.

Well it is important to have a controlled diet, you must understand running for 2+ hours isnt normal so it is neccessary to add such high calorie foods to the diet. Look at Michael Phelps diet for instance.

RacoonQueen

I take my diet much, much more seriously when I'm going to the gym more. Mostly because you see a lot more gains with good diet + weight lifting then you do with good diet and running.

CaoimheX

While long distance running can excuse the "wrong diet" from a weight gain perspective, we should not forget that the diet that is high in fats and sugars will not help the long term overall health of an individual. ie cardiovascular illhealth from high cholesterol and induced diabetes from frequent insulin spikes.

sideswipe

While long distance running can excuse the "wrong diet" from a weight gain perspective, we should not forget that the diet that is high in fats and sugars will not help the long term overall health of an individual. ie cardiovascular illhealth from high cholesterol and induced diabetes from frequent insulin spikes.

Very true, but sometimes I think that the key is moderation, I mean life is too short not to eat the wrong things now and again especially when they taste soooo right. And while I was taking the p**s (mostly) about bodybuilders, I do know a few who have almost stopped eating proper food altogether and its all supplements this and supplements that, which to me is not right.

RacoonQueen

I eat pretty healthily anyway. A lot of fruit, not so much veg, high quality protein and no where near enough quality carbs. I don't eat much junk food to be honest.

buck65

I ran 8 miles this morning and I am going to destroy a big fat breakfast roll in an hour

tunney

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Simple answer to the question "Why don't long distance runners take thier diet more seriously?"

Because the performance gains aren't worth it, easy as that.

Tut tut tut. Tut tut tut.

thirtyfoot

tunney wrote: »

Not saying its related but the average times for long distance runners (non-elite) have gotten alot slower too.

My reason for that is that more non-elite distance runners are outside of the club systems and go it alone with standard off the shelf programs off magazines and the internet. In a club environment they would get much better peer and coach support, advice and competitive training.

--amadeus--

tunney wrote: »

Tut tut tut. Tut tut tut.

Ahhh you spoiled it. I had a nice neat one liner and now you are making me go and explain it...

It depends on teh diet. If you live on chips, burgers and coke then cleaning up your diet will give you performance (and health) benefits.

But the OP was talking about obscure enough dietary supplements. Assuming your diet is fairly balanced and involves plenty of fruit and veg then the difference for teh average runner of taking supplements will be so minimal as to be invisible.

Racing Flat

Wasn't Bekele spotted having a cheeseburger in McDonalds at 3am on the morning of one of the World Cross Country Championships that he won. And what with Bolt and those nuggets. Maybe we should take our diet less seriously :pac:.

Racing Flat

Tingle wrote: »

My reason for that is that more non-elite distance runners are outside of the club systems and go it alone with standard off the shelf programs off magazines and the internet. In a club environment they would get much better peer and coach support, advice and competitive training.

Also perhaps that the numbers are greater and so the average has gone down. 30 years ago I imagine people took up long distance running as a sport. they wanted to do a marathon as fast as they could. Now many people do it as a challenge and for fitness rather than seeing it as their 'sport'. So they are happy to comlpete rather than to hit the best time.

IMO it all went wrong when we started to see walking as exercise. It used to be a mode of transport. Nowadays, when people go to the doctor and he asks if they do any exercise they say indignantly 'yes I walk to work' (1mile) or when you get on a lift and someone unhealthy looks smugly at you and says 'Oh I take the stairs'. Good man yourself.

HardyEustace

Racing Flat wrote: »

IMO it all went wrong when we started to see walking as exercise. It used to be a mode of transport. Nowadays, when people go to the doctor and he asks if they do any exercise they say indignantly 'yes I walk to work' (1mile) or when you get on a lift and someone unhealthy looks smugly at you and says 'Oh I take the stairs'. Good man yourself.

Well, I think for some people starting off with a low level of fitness then it could be viewed as exercise. However that's only starting off. My rule of thumb (though I could be completely wrong in my thinking) is

if you don't break a sweat, it can't be counted as exercise

GoHardOrGoHome

HardyEustace wrote: »

Well, I think for some people starting off with a low level of fitness then it could be viewed as exercise. However that's only starting off. My rule of thumb (though I could be completely wrong in my thinking) is

if you don't break a sweat, it can't be counted as exercise

Or, almost the same thing, if you don't raise your heart rate it's not exercise (sweating optional!). So, brisk walking for a lot of people would be considered exercise. Strolling to work wouldn't really fit the bill of exercise. Better than nothing though.

--amadeus--

It's the difference between an "active lifestyle" and exercising. Not a distinction most people seem to make

BeepBeep67

Naughty step for me so, I just gave in to an Apple Danish and a Latte, guess I'll have to train harder tonight

Stupid_Private

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Naughty step for me so, I just gave in to an Apple Danish and a Latte, guess I'll have to train harder tonight

The deal in Insomnia for a muffin and a coffee is killing me... a new Insomnia opened around the corner from me. Who can turn down a 50c muffin?

T runner

I think diet and exercise are two sides of the same coin. Whether for health reasons or competitive ones each should be taken as seriously as the other.

We apply science to many aspects of our training i.e how and when to train.
For diet maybe we are not as good i.e what to eat and when.

Speaking for myself If I dont take sugar with my tea I weight 10 stone eat like a horse and train and perform well. If I take sugar in my tea I weigh half a stone heavier (10.5) and eat a lot less, and get sick more often. My training is using energy from the sugars to perform and so the energy supplies for optimal training are not being used and these systems are not being developed.

Drinking a lot of water helps with diet also as I reckon people who dont may try and eat their way out of slight de-hydration.

Im currently taking sugar in my tea and training for the marathon which is incredibly stupid but Im addicted to sugar. I know from past experience that two weeks without refined sugars sees these impulses go.
Ill just have to bite the bullet (again).

Anyway would see diet as equally important to training. To answer the OP I guess eating not so well is seen as a pleasure made allowable by the training. Would be interested to see how people who are excellent with training and diet do to let hair down. Probably win races?

Krusty_Clown

T runner wrote: »

Speaking for myself If I dont take sugar with my tea I weight 10 stone eat like a horse and train and perform well. If I take sugar in my tea I weigh half a stone heavier (10.5) and eat a lot less, and get sick more often. My training is using energy from the sugars to perform and so the energy supplies for optimal training are not being used and these systems are not being developed.

eek. Just how much sugar do you take in your tea? Or, how many cups of tea do you drink every day?!
Half a stone = 7 pounds (lbs) = 672 tea-spoons of granulated sugar.
I think you may have a bigger problem.

I think you're spot-on about the dehydration though. I often confuse this with a desire for food or alcohol, particularly after a run (I know, I may have a bigger problem too).

HardyEustace

Stupid_Private wrote: »

The deal in Insomnia for a muffin and a coffee is killing me... a new Insomnia opened around the corner from me. Who can turn down a 50c muffin?

A lot of the time it's to do with organisation and like a lot of other things, preparation.

I've started to make batches of goji berry muffins, the recipe is sugar free and dairy free and flour free. I have them individually wrapped in my freezer so every morning I just take one and defrost it at work and it stops me buying a large scone (which I have with two butters and jam) and inhaling that. It makes a massive difference.

Another great tip, from Anita Bean, is to start each meal with a bowl of soup (NOT one laden with cream and cheese and croutons!), it fills you up and makes you feel that you don't need as much food for your main course.

I batch make soup as well and freeze the individual portions. I can recommend carrot and coriander from delia smith as really, really nice. I also make up my own stock using free range chicken thighs or wings which are uber cheap.

The website with the Goji berry muffin recipe is absolutely fantastic. I'm starting to try more and more recipes. I'll let you know how they go.

Krusty_Clown

Reminds me of a documentary I saw recently, where they prepared meals for the army, and what they did was liquidize the meal into a soup for one group of soldiers, and serve it in solid form to the other group.

What they found was that in solid form the meal was digested more quickly, and these soliders were hungrier quicker than those soldiers who ate the meal in soup form. But I suppose we shouldn't confuse diet'ing and weigh-loss with proper nutrition.

RacoonQueen

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Naughty step for me so, I just gave in to an Apple Danish and a Latte, guess I'll have to train harder tonight

I was so tempted to buy an apple danish this morning when the canteen had no ryvita left. I was a good girl though.

T runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

eek. Just how much sugar do you take in your tea? Or, how many cups of tea do you drink every day?!
Half a stone = 7 pounds (lbs) = 672 tea-spoons of granulated sugar.
I think you may have a bigger problem.

About 2-3 spoons a cup and 8-9 cups a day. This gives me sugar cravings so other foods containing sugar start to be consumed. All of the weight gain isnt from granulated sugar but a large amount of it is. I dont drink much water when I'm on the tea so that may compound things.

Before the Warriors run this year I weighed spot on 10 stone. Now I'm 10 and 8 pounds: less than 4 weeks later. Ive consumed considerably less food in weight in the last 4 weeks than in the 4 weeks before that race.

Seems to be for me that any intake of refined sugars and my diet regresses to a very high sugar intake one. There is a time for high GI foods (sometimes after strenous exercise) but using refined sugars for this purpose may backfire.

When I stop taking refined sugars I notice an increase in weight for 2 weeks. I think this is due to craving sugar and trying to find it in foods.

After that the craving for refined sugar seems to go and the diet reduces to normal levels for a runner with a weight drop after.

This really has benefits for my training etc. I usually break down after a really hard race that has cups of tea as after race refreshment and the deadly cycle starts again!

I put a lot of time into training especially these days so my high sugar diet is dissapointing. For me anyway my bad diet as a long distance runner seems to stem from using refined sugars to fuel my training and having difficulty correcting this due to their addictiveness!

shels4ever

Racing Flat wrote: »

Wasn't Bekele spotted having a cheeseburger in McDonalds at 3am on the morning of one of the World Cross Country Championships

:eek: hadnt heard that one before...
Think i'll have to get the Boards XC team into McD's the night before the novice's. Did he have chips too?

Enduro

I had a McDonald's Strawberry milkshake before, during and after the world 24 hour running championships

Feck it anyway, this thread has made me hungry. I'm off for dinner :pac:

GoHardOrGoHome

Stupid_Private wrote: »

The deal in Insomnia for a muffin and a coffee is killing me... a new Insomnia opened around the corner from me. Who can turn down a 50c muffin?

Lemon and white chocolate muffin ftw!

gmurran

I do watch my diet apart from the can of coke I have a lunch time most days

Gringo78

Had 2 chocolate mini-rolls for lunch yesterday and burgers & sausages for dinner. A chocolate kimberly before bed. great.

rainbow kirby

Am having a flapjack and a cup of coffee right now... need a quick breakfast before 9am class :mad:

theflash800

i think endurance runners do have a bit more freedom in what they can eat. purely because they burn a larger amount of calories. simple as that. but when they should worry about their diet is, when they worry about race performance. like i know some guys in their 60's recreational runners, they do decent mileage. meaning they can have that extra biscuit or bar of chocolate, without the guilt like? but they wouldn't be devoting all their time and focus to running decent times, making internationals, and all the other stuff that goes with it. like im sure somebody like bernard lagat, who wud run decent mileage, would still take care of his diet. its not for vainity, its purely to make sure he has enough fuel to run that extra mile or run that extra intervil...