EL and Fire

davelerave

can someone tell me the procedure for certifying commercial work.Where i get the certs etc. thanks

knx

When you say commercial what exactly are you talkin about. I've certified three phase shop units with domestic certs with no problems.
On the fire alarm side of things I've always just gotten a fire alarm company to certify for me eventhough I can just buy the certs. Less hassle. You need all the gear for testing the heads and sounder level.

davelerave

i need to certify (small) commercial fire and emergency lighting system

knx

Who are you registered with? Emergency lighting certs are available to members from the Ecssa. Fire certs available as well. Can't remember how much but not expensive. Emergency lighting certs fairly self explanitory, any electrician should know what the craic is.

davelerave

i'm reci but they didn't seem to know.i see the eccsa website alright.
I would need a 'sound meter' though for the fire alarm cert?

knx

Well in that case I'd be callin the NSAI. Thats where I bought all my standards so maybe they'll have the certs as well. They should be able to point you in the right direction anyway.
You do need a sound level meter for the fire alarm and stuff for testing the heads. Think it is actually an aerosol of some sort. I get the other company to certifythe fire alarm for me cause theres usually a maintenance contract required also. Cost €250.

davelerave

i was on the phone to NSAI today but missed the callback.Have the aerosol alright ,i wonder what the cost of sound meter is roughly?

knx

Well your on the right track so. I'm sure Radionics'll have something for ya.

davelerave

sound thanks for the info

Stoner

AFAIK you can make/copy an emergency lighting cert and use it, there is no special membership or standard to meet here, just an honest test record, noting that there was a 3 hour test, everything was OK, issues were noted fixed and retested etc. Obviously there would be a sign off on the system from an engineer noting that the system was designed to standard. Another sig from the installer and another from the commissioner, you might as well get a forth from the owner and instruct them via an operation and maintenance manual about their owner responsibilities to maintain this system. These responsibilities are part of the IS standard

Fire alarm is different, the 4 part cert issued for insurance reasons is not available to any contractor, commissioning companies need to register and meet standards.

Most places should be capable of certifying both at the same time and giving you both certs for IS 3218 and IS 3217, some of the bigger guys will try to charge you twice, but there should be a reduction involved if they use the same guy on the same day.

davelerave

i've checked up on this and i think you have to be registered with the NSAI
to sign off on any fire alarm or emergency lighting install now(with the 2008 certs).hopefully someone can confirm this.

intbn

knx wrote: »

Well in that case I'd be callin the NSAI. Thats where I bought all my standards so maybe they'll have the certs as well. They should be able to point you in the right direction anyway.
You do need a sound level meter for the fire alarm and stuff for testing the heads. Think it is actually an aerosol of some sort. I get the other company to certifythe fire alarm for me cause theres usually a maintenance contract required also. Cost €250.

no bad, was it a big job?(a lot of heads) or do they charge a flat rates?

intbn

knx wrote: »

Well in that case I'd be callin the NSAI. Thats where I bought all my standards so maybe they'll have the certs as well. They should be able to point you in the right direction anyway.
You do need a sound level meter for the fire alarm and stuff for testing the heads. Think it is actually an aerosol of some sort. I get the other company to certifythe fire alarm for me cause theres usually a maintenance contract required also. Cost €250.

no bad, was it a big job?(a lot of heads) or do they charge a flat rates?

knx

intbn wrote: »

no bad, was it a big job?(a lot of heads) or do they charge a flat rates?

Flat rate I think. Got them into certify a couple of jobs but they weren't huge. Maybe 20 to 30 heads at most and 5 or 6 sounders. The company is in Enniscorthy Co. Wexford.

Have got them in several times to spec fire alarms for me as well and there was no charge for that. Now yer man just walks around and I take notes as we go so no official report but he was giving his time for nothing.

To be honest the impression I've always gotten is that you need someone local to do the specification and certification as they will be familiar with the local fire officer and what he or she will pass at the end of the day. Especially if your doing an upgrade or some kind of modification. I know you'd imagine regulations were the same all over but that seems to be the way it works in my part of the country..

M cebee

safest bet alright to get the 'design and certification' done by the one company that knows the score locally
the design side is specialised now with the new 2008 rules in force,the old generic 1989 drawings prob don't cut it .

intbn

cheers lads, very insightfull info in this thread, should help some others in future too