Advice on buying a unfinished house

gazzer

Myself and my partner put an offer in on a house last month which was accepted. We viewed the house 3 times before making the offer. Some of the rooms are not finished (living room and downstairs bedroom) and the dining room needs the walls skimmed. The unfinished rooms are wired and plumbed etc. The house was built by a couple who have been living in it for the last 3 years. They have split up and hence the house sale. We got the house for €240,000 (reduced from €320,000)

The rest of the house is finished. Sitting room, kitchen, upstairs bedrooms etc. The house size is 3,500 sq feet and is in a lovely area in the countryside and we really like the house. We figured that even though some of the rooms were not finished we could still move into the house and finish the rooms over time. Neither of us are afraid of getting our hands dirty and it would also give us the chance to put our own mark on the house.

Last week we got the surveyors report and a letter from our solicitors outling a few problems they found. Some of the problems outlined where quite small and we would have no problem fixing them ourselves (e.g Loose coverings on air vents, however there was some issues that were of concern.

1. There is a shed out the back for which planning permission was never sought.
2. There is no wheelchair access at the entrance to the house
3. The sellers are not prepared to furnish any documentation in relation to the septic tank and percolation area so we dont know if it complies with the EPA guidelines
4. They are not prepared to offer any structural defects indemnity

To be honest I am not at all up to speed with what is required when builidng a house. This house was built in 2005 and from the outset we knew that there was rooms to be finished but from reading the surveyors report and solicitors letter it seems that there is a lot more to be done.

Im not even sure if a bank would give out a mortgage if there is no structural defects indemnity. Its all a bit disheartening and our solicitor has recomended that as it stands we should not buy the house.

Anybody any advice?

Thanks

ThePiedPiper

gazzer wrote: »

1. There is a shed out the back for which planning permission was never sought.
2. There is no wheelchair access at the entrance to the house
3. The sellers are not prepared to furnish any documentation in relation to the septic tank and percolation area so we dont know if it complies with the EPA guidelines
4. They are not prepared to offer any structural defects indemnity

.... our solicitor has recomended that as it stands we should not buy the house.

Anybody any advice?

Thanks

You may not need to be overly concerned about the shed and the wheelchair access. You could possibly apply for retention for the shed, or it may even be exempt from planning depending on certain conditions.
The wheelchair access ramp could be easily built, so that shouldn't be a big hurdle either...

Points 3 and 4, I would be worried about.. If the sellers are withholding information regarding these matters, it should and has raised alarm bells.

My experience of solicitors would be that they would rarely actually advice clients outright not to buy a property unless there was serious cause for concern...

It may be disappointing for you, but there are numerous properties out there at good prices and no baggage, so you shouldn't be afraid to walk away from this one..

sydthebeat

as a minimum, when buying a house your solicitor should insist:

1. a certificate of compliance with planning permission and building regulations
2. information of structural insurances (HOMEBOND, premier etc)
3. land registry details.


if this is being sold "as is" and in an unfinished state, then perhaps the sellers are selling it as a "you get what you see" product.
ask them if there has been an architect / engineer periodically inspecting the build in order to certify. If not, and there was no professional input into the build, then i would be extremely worried. Who is to say if there is adequate foundations?? or insulation under the floor?? etc. If this is the case, then i would offer them the site value only. If anything more is asked for then i would run in the opposite direction.

gazzer

Thanks for the replies. When we viewed the house on the 3 seperate occasions and when we then put the offer on the table we were led to believe that the work that needed to be done on the house was on the unfinished rooms only.

As I said in my original post this was fine with us as we felt we were getting the house at a good price and also it would give us the chance to put our own mark on the house. Unforunately as neither of us were too clued up with planning permission requirements we were unaware of the other issues until we got the solicitors letter and surveyors report.

We have spent the last 8 months looking at houses and finally we settled on this one but there is no way we are going ahead with it as it currently stands. I suppose we will just have to wait and see what the vendors solicitor comes back with.

No6

Gazzer if I were you I would talk directly with the surveyor and see what issues are in his report, 1 & 2 as mentioned above don't seem to bad, the shed may be exempt and a flat access to the front door wouldn't cost the earth. Details of the spetic tank system as designed are available on the local authority planning file, I suspect nothing has been put in at all so there will be another cost to you to install. In regard to the structural gurantee, generally one off self or small contractor built houses like this are not covered by homebond and do not have structural gurantees.

The questions I would have are

1. has any professional supervised the build so far?
2. if so are they willing to sign off as the house stands or to sign off for you at the end with you and the vendor making an arrangement to pay their fes?
3. If not be extremely careful but if you can resolve the septic tank issue by getting some professional advice, it may still be possible but be very very careful about it.

gazzer

Hi there. Back again with an update on the house situation. We had hoped to get a structural engineer in to assess the house last week but a few hours before they were due to visit the house we got a phone call from the estate agent to say that the sellers 'could not facilitate' the engineer for that day.

On top of that I got a letter from our solicitor to say that
"Basically in relation to the septic tank, at a bare minimum what you need to close a sale is the following.
1. Unqualified Architects Cert of Compliance 2. Copy of Architect's PI 3. Agrement Certificate 4. Installation Certificate 5. Maintenance Contract (you will sign this, but the Vendor must procure it for you) 6. Certificate re- percolation area"

What we have been given is
1. An architects cert of compliance that does not certify that the septic tank is in compliance with the planning & building regs.
2. A promise that one will be made available on closing.
3. A 'certificate' of some description. I showed the certificate to a colleague who works for the Department of the Environment in relation to this effluent treatment stuff and she said it's not worth the paper it's written on so obviously it's a cause for concern.

I think I should just walk away. If the sellers wanted to sell the house surely they would be supplying the necessary documentation. Having said that I am not sure if all of the certs mentioned above are required. Could anybody here tell me what they reckon?

Thanks

Poor Uncle Tom

gazzer wrote: »

"Basically in relation to the septic tank, at a bare minimum what you need to close a sale is the following.
1. Unqualified Architects Cert of Compliance 2. Copy of Architect's PI 3. Agrement Certificate 4. Installation Certificate 5. Maintenance Contract (you will sign this, but the Vendor must procure it for you) 6. Certificate re- percolation area"

1. Is needed by the solicitor normally to register title, also a copy may be required by Condition of Planning Permission.
2. Is required to indemnify ststements made in the Certificate.
3, 4 and 5. Usually needed by Condition of Planning Permission.
6. Your guarantee that covered works were carried out in accordance with EPA guidelines or SR6 guidelines.

Remember the house is not completed, you should be getting guarantees right, left and centre for the works that have been carried out. If these are not forthcoming quickly, I would walk away even quicker.

sinnerboy

Picture yourself 6 ~ 12 months on .

Setting aside for 1 moment the septic tank.

There are leaks . The heating never worked properly . You are forever changing light bulbs and your fuses keep tripping . Damp appears in the walls

Who do you turn to for recourse ? Who built this ? Was it a contractor with a good reputation to maintain ? Or a self -build- direct-labour-house - the biggest DIY project ever taken on by the vendor ? ( who may or may not have relied on internet forums ) .

Want to find out how much they did/did not learn ?

Poor Uncle Tom

sinnerboy wrote: »

Picture yourself 6 ~ 12 months on .

Setting aside for 1 moment the septic tank.

There are leaks . The heating never worked properly . You are forever changing light bulbs and your fuses keep tripping . Damp appears in the walls

Who do you turn to for recourse ? Who built this ? Was it a contractor with a good reputation to maintain ? Or a self -build- direct-labour-house - the biggest DIY project ever taken on by the vendor ? ( who may or may not have relied on internet forums ) .

Want to find out how much they did/did not learn ?

:eek:

Do-more

There may not be a similar motivation in your case, but I am aware of a similar situation surrounding a house sale in the past where one of the parties involved secertly really wanted to keep the house and the attemped sale was only a charade to demonstrate to the the other partner that the house was "virtually unsaleable" so that they could drive down the price of the house and thus the settlement to be paid to the other partner.

Like I said it may not be the same in your case, but bear in mind that you may just be being used as a pawn in someone elses game.

sinnerboy

Drains block , windows sag , doors stick , boiler keeps cutting out , bad drain smells in bathroom , render spalls , house is drafty as hell ......

seen it all