Classic or not?

Dustpuppy

Hi,
i know, that there are a lot of threads with this question, but all i see there is only words like : this car is no classic, because it's ugly, or because i don't like them.
What i want are arguments, why a car is classic or not.

I think a Merc 300SL is absolute classic, because the wing doors are brilliant and the form of the car is absolute unique. Never seen a car with this brilliant design.

A porsche 924 never will be a classic, because it's totaly out of all a porsche is. The most worst think on this car is, that the engine isn't an aircooled one in the back. Half of the technique is taken from other cars, like the trailling arms of the back axle. They are same like in a beetle, only made in alloy not in steel. Or the engine from the audi 100.

Let us know, what car u think is a classic or not and why.

peasant

Once it has a following, it's a classic (or a classic in the making)

For some cars that happens while they're still in production, for some it happens 10 years down the line, others hit the official 30 year classic mark and still nobody wants them.

unkel

All definitions of classic or not are allowed in here!

From the broad subjective ones like peasant's where a following is enough to make a car a classic, to a strictly objective one like the car has to be over a certain age (30 years?)

I like a definition based on how many of the car in question are still on the road say 20 or 25 years on relative to how many were made originally. Another definition is when you can insure it as a classic, it is a classic

Dades

Dustpuppy wrote: »

A porsche 924 never will be a classic, because it's totaly out of all a porsche is. The most worst think on this car is, that the engine isn't an aircooled one in the back.

A Ferrari Dino was a big departure from what a Ferrari was, is that not a classic?
In fact like the 924 it was the first "affordable" car from it's maker and sold buckets of cars.

People have different criteria for deciding what is classic. Some people read the parts list, others watch the reaction of other people when driving. Whatever floats your boat.

Abelloid

If they're old enough and a group of people have the enthusiasm and passion to keep and maintain them they are classics IMHO.

The beetle was designed and built as a cheap, no-frills, mass-market, runabout.

The Karmann Ghia was just a beetle in a frock...


Classics?

mustang68

Dustpuppy wrote: »

A porsche 924 never will be a classic, because it's totaly out of all a porsche is. The most worst think on this car is, that the engine isn't an aircooled one in the back. Half of the technique is taken from other cars, like the trailling arms of the back axle. They are same like in a beetle, only made in alloy not in steel. Or the engine from the audi 100.

If you were a fan you could rewrite that as:

The Porsche 924, the dark horse, with its unique non aircooled engine bought in and tuned from Audi, a reliable powerhouse with a good track record and available parts, advanced trailing arms that were a departure from standard. All this resulted in one of the first everyman affordable sports cars.

ds20prefecture

Dustpuppy wrote: »

A porsche 924 never will be a classic, because it's totaly out of all a porsche is. The most worst think on this car is, that the engine isn't an aircooled one in the back. Half of the technique is taken from other cars, like the trailling arms of the back axle. They are same like in a beetle, only made in alloy not in steel. Or the engine from the audi 100.

Completely disagree with this. How much does a 911 or 356 borrow from the design of the Beetle? And is a 928 with it's glorious front-mid 5.0 water cooled V8 somehow less of an acheivement than the fundamentaly flawed 911?

None of these arguments determine whether a car is classic or not. The morris marina and austin allegro are classics where I like it or not. To me they're boring, humdrum, derivative designs that looked and drove appallingly. On the other hand the DS is an over-complicated, ugly irrelevance to most morris owners

johnf2020

I believe that the main problem in answering this question is the Irish attitude towards Classic Cars in this country and more specifically at Club Level.
I am a member of a very active club here in Ireland,,,but what maddens be is the fact that Unless you have a Ford, Morris Minor or MG you will feel like a leper. Owner A turns up with a Mk2 Escort(which are all over the place and are a dog to drive)and everyone gathers around to look,comment,admire as if they had never saw one before. Owner B turns up with a Peugeot 504/ Renault 12 / Fiat 131/ Mercedes 190,BMW 316/ Manta/Saab 900 whatever he is into((and are not everywhere))and they don't get a second glance. I often find that the nicest comments come from those people who do not have classic cars but just like to go to shows to admire cars that they or family members used to have.
Its a much different situation in NI/UK. A friend of mine recently went to a show in the UK and everybody from different clubs/one make clubs etc etc would all walk around admiring everybody elses cars and their was as much enthusiasm for an Austin Alegro as a Jag E-TYPE. ---IN OTHER WORDS///WHATEVER YOU ARE INTO!!!!!!!!
Maybe it basically comes down to one thing----that ultimately we are a nation of begrudgers.

PaulK_CCI

johnf2020 wrote: »

I believe that the main problem in answering this question is the Irish attitude towards Classic Cars in this country and more specifically at Club Level.
I am a member of a very active club here in Ireland,,,but what maddens be is the fact that Unless you have a Ford, Morris Minor or MG you will feel like a leper. Owner A turns up with a Mk2 Escort(which are all over the place and are a dog to drive)and everyone gathers around to look,comment,admire as if they had never saw one before. Owner B turns up with a Peugeot 504/ Renault 12 / Fiat 131/ Mercedes 190,BMW 316/ Manta/Saab 900 whatever he is into((and are not everywhere))and they don't get a second glance. I often find that the nicest comments come from those people who do not have classic cars but just like to go to shows to admire cars that they or family members used to have.
Its a much different situation in NI/UK. A friend of mine recently went to a show in the UK and everybody from different clubs/one make clubs etc etc would all walk around admiring everybody elses cars and their was as much enthusiasm for an Austin Alegro as a Jag E-TYPE. ---IN OTHER WORDS///WHATEVER YOU ARE INTO!!!!!!!!
Maybe it basically comes down to one thing----that ultimately we are a nation of begrudgers.

I guess some of this stems from the fact that people tend to 'admire' stuff that they know from their own past: their dad's car, their uncle's car, the car they learnt to drive in, that's the type of cars that 'rings a bell' with a lot of people and sentiments start flooding back if they see a really well preserved one! If noone in their past had ever owned a Peugeot, Alfa Romeo or Citroen, it kind of explains the lack of interest, because there is no 'click'.

(of course that doesn't justify them ignoring them!!!! )

Henry Ford III

924 is a classic imho. 924 Turbo is an even better one.

carchaeologist

Dustpuppy wrote: »

I think a Merc 300SL is absolute classic, because the wing doors are brilliant and the form of the car is absolute unique. Never seen a car with this brilliant design.

Er..what about the Delorean...:)

carchaeologist

johnf2020 wrote: »

I believe that the main problem in answering this question is the Irish attitude towards Classic Cars in this country and more specifically at Club Level.
I am a member of a very active club here in Ireland,,,but what maddens be is the fact that Unless you have a Ford, Morris Minor or MG you will feel like a leper. Owner A turns up with a Mk2 Escort(which are all over the place and are a dog to drive)and everyone gathers around to look,comment,admire as if they had never saw one before. Owner B turns up with a Peugeot 504/ Renault 12 / Fiat 131/ Mercedes 190,BMW 316/ Manta/Saab 900 whatever he is into((and are not everywhere))and they don't get a second glance. I often find that the nicest comments come from those people who do not have classic cars but just like to go to shows to admire cars that they or family members used to have.
Its a much different situation in NI/UK. A friend of mine recently went to a show in the UK and everybody from different clubs/one make clubs etc etc would all walk around admiring everybody elses cars and their was as much enthusiasm for an Austin Allegro as a Jag E-TYPE. ---IN OTHER WORDS///WHATEVER YOU ARE INTO!!!!!!!!
Maybe it basically comes down to one thing----that ultimately we are a nation of begrudgers.

Well said john.You have that spot on.I couldnt agree more.Seems to be a waste of time joining a club as it seems if your car isnt a Merc/Porsche/other old valuable car there is no point.I buy my cars because i like them,not because of what i want other people to think.

kev1.3s

johnf2020 wrote: »

I believe that the main problem in answering this question is the Irish attitude towards Classic Cars in this country and more specifically at Club Level.
I am a member of a very active club here in Ireland,,,but what maddens be is the fact that Unless you have a Ford, Morris Minor or MG you will feel like a leper. Owner A turns up with a Mk2 Escort(which are all over the place and are a dog to drive)and everyone gathers around to look,comment,admire as if they had never saw one before. Owner B turns up with a Peugeot 504/ Renault 12 / Fiat 131/ Mercedes 190,BMW 316/ Manta/Saab 900 whatever he is into((and are not everywhere))and they don't get a second glance. I often find that the nicest comments come from those people who do not have classic cars but just like to go to shows to admire cars that they or family members used to have.
Its a much different situation in NI/UK. A friend of mine recently went to a show in the UK and everybody from different clubs/one make clubs etc etc would all walk around admiring everybody elses cars and their was as much enthusiasm for an Austin Alegro as a Jag E-TYPE. ---IN OTHER WORDS///WHATEVER YOU ARE INTO!!!!!!!!
Maybe it basically comes down to one thing----that ultimately we are a nation of begrudgers.

well said I respect anyone's decision on whatever classic they choose but I do have a strong dislike of fords and I think this is from growing up with some ford worshipers and the attitude that if it hadn't got the blue oval it was only scrap. It was rich considering that the old escort one of them had couldn't go anywhere without a can of damp start and a couple of liters of oil.

MercMad

peasant wrote: »

Once it has a following, it's a classic (or a classic in the making)

For some cars that happens while they're still in production, for some it happens 10 years down the line, others hit the official 30 year classic mark and still nobody wants them.

+1

I would admit to being a snob in the past and ignoring some cars that I felt weren't special enough. I sort of compared it to music, you love current pop when you are a teenager, then it gets old and forgotten, then you revisit it some years later and fall in love with it all over again.

I am at the stage now where I can admire ANY car that I see someone loves/cherish's and spends time enjoying it or presenting it as best as they can.

I also think that the actual word "classic" can cause problems purely due to people interpretation of how YOU percieve the word or the car.

If a different word was used, oldtimer/retro/whatever then there wouldn't be so many arguments.

gyppo

MercMad wrote: »

I am at the stage now where I can admire ANY car that I see someone loves/cherish's and spends time enjoying it or presenting it as best as they can.

This embodies what classic car ownership/appreciation is all about. So what if some cars don't live up to purists ideals.
Case in point is the porsche 924 mentioned earlier. So what if it had a weedy 2l engine compared to "proper" porsche's - it was an iconic car in that it allowed the less well off Joe Soap a chance to own and enjoy a porsche, and if it brought joy to owners, then it deserves to be treated with respect; not contempt.

dillontobin

any car be for 1979 is a classic no matter wat it is or wat it looks like end of

corktina

Im quite happy for a Classic to be defined as such by its owner, whatever it is..... I've just bought a 1995 Escort and I love it to bits....yes.really.I wouldnt claim its a Classic and its cheaply put together and a bit tatty but IF I did decide to consider it a Classic, anyone elses opinion on the matter would be irrelevant.