disabled toilet downstairs

A country home

Hi people,

so, story is, house is redesigned 3 times, then okayed with the planner for the area. Engineer is happy with it, submitts it and it gets through no problem.

then my builder, asks "ahe is this an old plan"? i said no, it was granted last May. I asked why?, he said, well the is suppose to be a toilet down stairs for the disabled. I replied, so the engineer didnt mention it, the council didnt mention it, the 19 conditions didnt mention it, but now the builder has.

what i need is,

more info on this,

the biggest toliet i have downstairs is 2.6m X 1.4m

I have no room to move walls etc. . .

whats the min size?

I am disgusted with my engineer and planner. . . .why was this missed?

I havent spoken to my engineer yet, but would assume that if i built the house as per plan, she would sign it off. . . .

so many shady things, "how is a run of the mill non-construction person suppose to know these things".

help. ..

muffler

First of all planning has nothing to do with the internal layout of your house. This is a matter for you and your engineer to demonstrate compliance with Part M of the Building Regulations.

The actual room size for a w.c is important (min 1450mm x 1450mm) but it can take various shapes and forms but the most important part is that it is of sufficient size and layout to cater for someone in a wheelchair with the wheelchair parlikg taking up a large chunk of the usable floor space - 1200mm x 750mm minimum.

A country home

so it looks like my room is ok then, i mean we only plan on putting a toilet and sink in there, maybe if it fits a shower. . .


ud think my engineer would have mentioned this, , , but maybe as i have one that meets the requirements its just not brought up. . .

yeah.. . id say that thats the case. . .

cheers muffler. . .

Ps who oversees that engineers like mine do their job?

muffler

Forgot to add that the Tech. Guidance Document for Part M may be viewed in full here and diagrams showing the wc compartment can be seen on page 23

glencoe

The main requirements are for level entry to a dwelling and the downstairs WC,
the designer should have also taken account of page 17 which allows for room to access the WC.

If he has not then he has not designed to be in compliance with Part M and he needs to be brought to account

sydthebeat

glencoe wrote: »

The main requirements are for level entry to a dwelling and the downstairs WC,
the designer should have also taken account of page 17 which allows for room to access the WC.

If he has not then he has not designed to be in compliance with Part M and he needs to be brought to account

Without being awkward, but there is no statutory requirement to design in accordance with building regulations. There is, however, statutory requirement to build in accordance with building regulations.

Drawings submitted for planning generally convey the design concept and do not have to show compliance with building regs. Just making the point, im not saying its good practise.

sinnerboy

OP you have a toliet downstairs sized to comply so what is the problem

Your builder is acting the b******x trying to undermine your confidence in your engineer . Whose interest is he really serving by doing that ? - think about it .

if i talked my clients through everything then i would stop being an AT and start becoming a lecturer

Poor Uncle Tom

sydthebeat wrote: »

Without being awkward, but there is no statutory requirement to design in accordance with building regulations. There is, however, statutory requirement to build in accordance with building regulations.

Drawings submitted for planning generally convey the design concept and do not have to show compliance with building regs. Just making the point, im not saying its good practise.

This is another reason why having working drawings is so important.

sinnerboy wrote: »

....Your builder is acting the b******x trying to undermine your confidence in your engineer . Whose interest is he really serving by doing that ? - think about it.....

I've seen this happen quite a lot, self-serving contractors who know everyone elses trade better then they do themselves.

sinnerboy

ACH - understand a fundamental concept . You have a contract with the builder
The Engineer is the administrator .

You are Cork . He is Kerry . The engineer is the ref . He is "playing" the ref now .

Apparently you can read off the drawing

A country home wrote: »

the biggest toliet i have downstairs is 2.6m X 1.4m

.... but the builder cannot ??

Open your eyes . As far as you and the builder is concerned your engineer is NEVER wrong . . Golden rule.

Now if you have a concern that the engineer may be wrong about something keep that strictly between you and the engineer .

A country home wrote: »

I am disgusted with my engineer

A country home wrote: »

I havent spoken to my engineer yet,

Wise up .

.

muffler

sinnerboy wrote: »

Wise up .

sinnerboy you should know better than to adopt that attitude. Attack the post if you wish but not the poster.

Infraction given

mickdw

This doesnt make sense. You have a typical sized toilet downstairs that Im sure the engineer looked at re disabled use yet the builder told you that you need a toilet downstairs and now you are annoyed with your engineer. What?

sinnerboy

muffler wrote: »

sinnerboy you should know better than to adopt that attitude. Attack the post if you wish but not the poster.

Infraction given

Accepted .

ACH - I had no intention to offend you. My post may appear to read so and could have been worded with more tact - I accept that and the consequence .

No6

As a supervising Architect on many projects I often find that a builder or a trades man often tries to undermine you in the eyes of the client for various reasons, usually to make things easier for them selves of to let them reduce a spec to save them money, in your case if the builder gets you suspisiouc of the engineer's ability it makes the engineers job that much harder in keeping the builder in line particuraly if he tries to pull a few fast ones on you. My advice is talk to your engineer, by the sounds of it you do have a wc suitably sized so there's no problem and take everything the builder tells you with a large dose of salt.

A country home

I all, didnt think it would stir up a conversation like this.

first off, I dont think the builder is getting at anything, (maybe he thinks its a bit tight for size). I mentioned to him that if the engineer is happy with it we will go with whats in the plan, and he said oh thats fine. . .

I would assume that once i had a normal sized toilet downstairs the engineer just ploughed on, I dont need to know the ins and outs of regulations, (the engineer makes sure I comply).. .no need to relay everything to me. .

I will run this by my engineer tomorrow and verify that my assumptions were correct. . . . .

but again, i dont see anything in it for the builder in bringing this to light. .

cheers all

Poor Uncle Tom

A country home,

Your two posts, No.1 and No.14, are poles apart even though you haven't spoken to your engineer yet.

You let the builder put the wind up you, while neither of you actually know the required regulations.

I find that both amusing and enlightening. I know if I was in that position I would have rang the engineer while the builder was there and straightened it out there and then.

Mellor

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

This is another reason why having working drawings is so important.

What the hell are working drawings?
I just draw drawings.

Poor Uncle Tom

Mellor wrote: »

What the hell are working drawings?
I just draw drawings.

There was a time, not so long ago, when that was true for all....:)

A country home

my post was to get the load down on the size of the room needed.

and to let u all know, that i was correct in my assumptions, she was aware of it, but as i already had the box ticked there was no need to mention it to me. . . .

all is well. .. plough on. . .

???? Poorunlce.? If the found was been poured id have rang, but as im digging out the site only yet, it wasnt urgent. . . .

ok, case closed. . .

great responses,, , cheers

Quazzie

muffler wrote: »

First of all planning has nothing to do with the internal layout of your house. This is a matter for you and your engineer to demonstrate compliance with Part M of the Building Regulations.

The actual room size for a w.c is important (min 1450mm x 1450mm) but it can take various shapes and forms but the most important part is that it is of sufficient size and layout to cater for someone in a wheelchair with the wheelchair parlikg taking up a large chunk of the usable floor space - 1200mm x 750mm minimum.

Muffler is there a difference in technical terms between a WC cubicle and a bathroom? The figures you states are from page 23 of the link on your other post but that refers to a WC cubicle.

I may be mixing this up with something else but do Bathrooms not require an unobstructed turning circle of diameter 1500mm? I see it listed on page 14 on the diagram for "Example of an accessible bedroom" bit for some reason I always had it stuck in my head that it was required for bathrooms too. I'm probably wrong.

muffler

Quazzie wrote: »

Muffler is there a difference in technical terms between a WC cubicle and a bathroom? The figures you states are from page 23 of the link on your other post but that refers to a WC cubicle.

I may be mixing this up with something else but do Bathrooms not require an unobstructed turning circle of diameter 1500mm? I see it listed on page 14 on the diagram for "Example of an accessible bedroom" bit for some reason I always had it stuck in my head that it was required for bathrooms too. I'm probably wrong.

There is and there's not a difference between wc cubicle and bathroom if that makes sense?

The regs we are talking about here apply to domestic houses which stipulate that toilet facilities must be provided at ground floor level for people with disabilities who may visit the house. This can consist of either a wc cubicle (or small toilet depending on what you want to call it) or alternatively a bathroom. If there is a bathroom/shower room on the ground floor then it will meet the requirements of the regs if the door width, wheelchair parking area, location and height of toilet bowl, wash basin etc. etc. are all as shown on the diagram for the wc cubicle.

A lot of houses in recent times are 2 storied and most have the main bathroom at first floor level so a WC cubicle/toilet is required at ground floor level which as stated above can be either a stand alone wc cubicle/compartment or a bathroom/shower room.

Turning circles are only required in bedrooms if the house is designed specifically for a disabled person and it would then be good practice to include a turning circle in a bathroom in this situation.

Poor Uncle Tom

muffler wrote: »

Turning circles are only required in bedrooms if the house is designed specifically for a disabled person and it would then be good practice to include a turning circle in a bathroom in this situation.

I know you are talking about houses here, but a turning circle is also required in toilet facilities provided for in public or semi public buildings.

Quazzie

muffler wrote: »

There is and there's not a difference between wc cubicle and bathroom if that makes sense?

The regs we are talking about here apply to domestic houses which stipulate that toilet facilities must be provided at ground floor level for people with disabilities who may visit the house. This can consist of either a wc cubicle (or small toilet depending on what you want to call it) or alternatively a bathroom. If there is a bathroom/shower room on the ground floor then it will meet the requirements of the regs if the door width, wheelchair parking area, location and height of toilet bowl, wash basin etc. etc. are all as shown on the diagram for the wc cubicle.

A lot of houses in recent times are 2 storied and most have the main bathroom at first floor level so a WC cubicle/toilet is required at ground floor level which as stated above can be either a stand alone wc cubicle/compartment or a bathroom/shower room.

Turning circles are only required in bedrooms if the house is designed specifically for a disabled person and it would then be good practice to include a turning circle in a bathroom in this situation.

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I know you are talking about houses here, but a turning circle is also required in toilet facilities provided for in public or semi public buildings.

Thanks for clearing that up. I must've been mixing up private dwelling and public buildings.

Either way I allowed for the turning circle in mine because I have planned to make it easy to change one part of the house to a Granny-Flat if ever required at a future date. Plus I've a friend who is in a wheelchair so want to make as much of the house accessible as possible.

Thanks again