Cost of transferring farm

JohnBoy

Hi,

We're just starting into the process of my wife's family farm being transferred into her/our name.

One thing we're curious about before we start talking to professionals is what are the normal costs of this type of transfer.

we're both "qualified young farmers" so fairly sure there's no tax implications, so its mainly legal fees.

We'd like to sound at least somewhat informed before we start talking to the solicitors.

how do they normally charge for this type of work? is it a fixed price, a price per hour, or a % value of the land in question.

I know its a how long is a piece of string question, and we really need to talk to a solicitor etc, but like I say twould be nice to know what costs are involved, even if we dont know the amounts.

vanderbadger

JohnBoy wrote: »

Hi,

We're just starting into the process of my wife's family farm being transferred into her/our name.

One thing we're curious about before we start talking to professionals is what are the normal costs of this type of transfer.

we're both "qualified young farmers" so fairly sure there's no tax implications, so its mainly legal fees.

We'd like to sound at least somewhat informed before we start talking to the solicitors.

how do they normally charge for this type of work? is it a fixed price, a price per hour, or a % value of the land in question.

I know its a how long is a piece of string question, and we really need to talk to a solicitor etc, but like I say twould be nice to know what costs are involved, even if we dont know the amounts.

think it cost me about 1000 from small solicitors office for bog standard transfer

Box09

I'm in the process of getting family farm transferred into a partnership between my brother and i. It is costing each of us 2500 plus Vat plus land regristration fees (about 630 for land valued at 300K upwards). I'm getting a house, a will and a farming partnership included with that so my bill is just over 3500 and my brother likewise. Steep enough but don't let that put you off as farms will become very expensive to transfer given the upcoming tax changes in the December budget.

JohnBoy

Box09 wrote: »

I'm in the process of getting family farm transferred into a partnership between my brother and i. It is costing each of us 2500 plus Vat plus land regristration fees (about 630 for land valued at 300K upwards). I'm getting a house, a will and a farming partnership included with that so my bill is just over 3500 and my brother likewise. Steep enough but don't let that put you off as farms will become very expensive to transfer given the upcoming tax changes in the December budget.

which changes are these? because it wont be done before december!

JohnBoy

I've just looked at the summary of the commission on taxation report here:
http://www.commissionontaxation.ie/downloads/Part%201.pdf

and all I'm seeing in relation to this are section 8.71 which suggests changing the relief on CAT from 90% to 75%, which in our case would still leave us well below the threshold for CAT and also section 8.73 which reccomends retaining the stamp duty exemption for young qualified farmers.

so unless I've missed something all's well here

JohnBoy

Just said I'd update this, our transfer came to €1,700 including all maps, land registry fees etc.

We were very much pleasantly surprised, esp as there was a bit of to and fro over the finer details of the arrangements.

maidhc

JohnBoy wrote: »

Just said I'd update this, our transfer came to €1,700 including all maps, land registry fees etc.

We were very much pleasantly surprised, esp as there was a bit of to and fro over the finer details of the arrangements.

Speaking as a solicitor and young trained farmer, that isn't bad at all!

Dunedin

vanderbadger wrote: »

think it cost me about 1000 from small solicitors office for bog standard transfer

cost me £2000 from local solicitor for a very straight forward transfer.
The Will was straightforward, no issues with other family members, Maps were available nothing really too complex.

Reckon we're all in the wrong profession.........

Dunedin

Dunedin wrote: »

cost me £2000 from local solicitor for a very straight forward transfer.
The Will was straightforward, no issues with other family members, Maps were available nothing really too complex.

Reckon we're all in the wrong profession.........

sorry €2000

maidhc

Dunedin wrote: »

cost me £2000 from local solicitor for a very straight forward transfer.
The Will was straightforward, no issues with other family members, Maps were available nothing really too complex.

Reckon we're all in the wrong profession.........

A probate has a different set of issues to a transfer when the transferor is alive.

One solicitor said to me recently that if I can make half a living out of being a solicitor and half a living out of being a farmer I will do OK. That is about the size of it it.

When you have all the overheads paid (rent, 12,000, insurance 15,000, the golden pages ad, L&H, rates, services charges and everything else) there is precious little left... not to mention staff!

Dunedin

maidhc wrote: »

A probate has a different set of issues to a transfer when the transferor is alive.

One solicitor said to me recently that if I can make half a living out of being a solicitor and half a living out of being a farmer I will do OK. That is about the size of it it.

When you have all the overheads paid (rent, 12,000, insurance 15,000, the golden pages ad, L&H, rates, services charges and everything else) there is precious little left... not to mention staff!

I bet most solicitors wouldn't have to dip in the single payment though................ :rolleyes::rolleyes:

ellewood

started to transferr farm at home in 2008 solicitor still isnt fully finished but he is looking fr his fee - just over 4000 all together now its a small farm

st1979

Going to a few solicitors at the moment for prices. My first price i got recently was 3000 plus expenses which were reckoned to be around 500. Its enough money but then again i was quoted 20k during the good times by our then family solicitor cause they only dealt on a % basis. Just showed loyalty has a serious cost.

Tora Bora

Lot's of unemployed solicitors right now. Should be no problem to negotiate a good deal. Shouldn't IFA / ICMSA have the wherewithall to negotiate a rate with the law society, on behalf of it's members.

Username John

Tora Bora wrote: »

Lot's of unemployed solicitors right now. Should be no problem to negotiate a good deal. Shouldn't IFA / ICMSA have the wherewithall to negotiate a rate with the law society, on behalf of it's members.

There may be solictors practices that are keen for business, but 'unemployed solicitors' - would you not be taking a gamble getting an unemployed solicitor to do anything for you? I mean, if anything went wrong, do you have any comebck? If they are just doing it on the side, and there is no insurance, or whatever idemnity solicitiors practices have?

maidhc

Username John wrote: »

There may be solictors practices that are keen for business, but 'unemployed solicitors' - would you not be taking a gamble getting an unemployed solicitor to do anything for you? I mean, if anything went wrong, do you have any comebck? If they are just doing it on the side, and there is no insurance, or whatever idemnity solicitiors practices have?

No, you cant use an unemployed solicitor. They don't have a practicing cert and it would be a very serious matter for a solicitor to engage in any work without one.

I think the only more regulated profession than solicitors is farming...

st1979

Well have 2 recent prices now 3500 and 5000 all in incl vat. I reckon its too dear in the present climate for a very straight forward job.
Due to the tax relief we want to transfer farm and farmhouse but i want to protect my mother so she can feel secure. So had planned on a right of sole residency in the farm house and a right of maintaince from the farm. Plus a car and house to be maintained.
Any other ideas or what have any of the rest of you done when transfering farms

maidhc

st1979 wrote: »

Well have 2 recent prices now 3500 and 5000 all in incl vat. I reckon its too dear in the present climate for a very straight forward job.
Due to the tax relief we want to transfer farm and farmhouse but i want to protect my mother so she can feel secure. So had planned on a right of sole residency in the farm house and a right of maintaince from the farm. Plus a car and house to be maintained.
Any other ideas or what have any of the rest of you done when transfering farms

Is there any loan involved?

tabby aspreme

maidhc wrote: »

A probate has a different set of issues to a transfer when the transferor is alive.

One solicitor said to me recently that if I can make half a living out of being a solicitor and half a living out of being a farmer I will do OK. That is about the size of it it.

When you have all the overheads paid (rent, 12,000, insurance 15,000, the golden pages ad, L&H, rates, services charges and everything else) there is precious little left... not to mention staff!

A solicitor is not needed to probate a will, in 2004 i took out probate on a will , spent about a day researching the process and a half day in dublin to carry out the probate. Two solicitors quoted me 23000 + expenses for the work , best day and a half of work i ever did

maidhc

tabby aspreme wrote: »

A solicitor is not needed to probate a will, in 2004 i took out probate on a will , spent about a day researching the process and a half day in dublin to carry out the probate. Two solicitors quoted me 23000 + expenses for the work , best day and a half of work i ever did

I don't doubt you but there are also probate files that have lasted 8 years, made a few trips to the high court and resulted in a stack of paperwork reaching for the ceiling (generally because people start fighting!)

Also, the "great" thing about law is the problems or defects in workmanship are never apparent at the outset. A dud solicitor can work for years without any problems coming home to roost, and likewise a lay person can do a job and all seems well until the property needs to be sold (DIY divorces are my personal favourite!)

I know there is a common belief out there that solicitors are only glorified admin staff who fill out forms, but I'm afraid it is one I take offence to... it is up there with the belief all teachers spend their time on maternity leave or that farmers are greedy subsidy loving layabouts.

tabby aspreme

In this case the will was straightfoward a transfer of all my fathers assets to my mother , the solicitors knew this before they gave me a price

maidhc

tabby aspreme wrote: »

In this case the will was straightfoward a transfer of all my fathers assets to my mother , the solicitors knew this before they gave me a price

Well that was a daft price for what actually was admin work!

st1979

Update i got a third quote back at 2200 incl all expenses and vat. About the probate we paid a solicitor around £15000 in 2000 when my father died. Only advice i have now is if your the executor really shop around. Its too easy to stay with the family solicitor. Although i know its tough for some solicitors who don't get paid for work for years but with all my dealings a bill was sent at the end of each job and settled within 4-6 weeks

adne

In the process of the farm been transferred,
Currently the Farm is in mothers name and I farm it. I am in 2nd year of REPS. Now farm is been split into half to my brother and half to me.
He does not farm.

How will this work out with the remaining 3 years of REPS?

tabby aspreme

if you continue to farm the land it should be no problem , though not sure how long a lease you need on your brothers land with three years left in reps