Dreamers

HashSlinging

Just wondering has anyone any stories about dreamers buying cars. friends or family who have convinced you that they are buying a high end car only the nxt time you see them their in the same car as before..

Why do people bother, its like one-up-manship for a couple of minutes.

yop

I was going to buy a Mondeo ST 24, I bought a Focus.
Then a few years later it was a Honda Prelude, then a Celica, bought an A4 TDI!

Now I am looking at either an Octavia VRS or an ST TDCI I bought a bike so far lol

Drummerboy08

I get to deal with a lot of them every day.

One particular guy wanted a "fully loaded" Audi Q7. Grand says I, have you a budget in mind?

Yeah, I was thinking around €450 per month inc Vat.

Riiiiight. Here's a Ford Mondeo you can have sir.....................

bazz26

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I get to deal with a lot of them every day.

One particular guy wanted a "fully loaded" Audi Q7. Grand says I, have you a budget in mind?

Yeah, I was thinking around €450 per month inc Vat.

Riiiiight. Here's a Ford Mondeo you can have sir.....................

Maybe he was thinking of a 30 year lease plan?

Drummerboy08

bazz26 wrote: »

Maybe he was thinking of a 30 year lease plan?

He needs to see a mortgage advisor so!

Just had another one on the phone. Wanted to buy a 520d SE Auto, but he had a limit of €40,000. :rolleyes:

ToxicPaddy

Dont they do 10 year finance plans in the US for high end cars???

Imagine how many would appear on the road over night in Ireland if they starting giving them out here..

mullingar

There are 14 x '08 520d SE Autos on carzone less than 40k.

mullingar

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I get to deal with a lot of them every day.

One particular guy wanted a "fully loaded" Audi Q7. Grand says I, have you a budget in mind?

Yeah, I was thinking around €450 per month inc Vat.

Riiiiight. Here's a Ford Mondeo you can have sir.....................

Well,

Assuming non-commercial, here is a 2007 Q7, tiptronic leather etc etc:
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/Q7/3.0-Tdi-/200937195190887/advert?channel=CARS
for €47.5k. Probably get it for €45k.

€45k @ €450/month will take only 13 years (@8%) with no trade-in :rolleyes:


Commercial 'S-Line' Q7's (as he references +vat) can be got for €30k for a 2007.

€30k@ €450/month will take 7 years to pay back with no-trade in

colm_mcm

mullingar wrote: »

Commercial 'S-Line' Q7's (as he references +vat) can be got for €25k for a 2007.

€25k @ €450/month will take 6 years to pay back with no-trade in

Like a bank would do 6 years finance on a 2007....... (or indeed any vehicle)

mullingar

colm_mcm wrote: »

Like a bank would do 6 years finance on a 2007....... (or indeed any vehicle)

Defo not for car finance, best chance would be a personal loan. Even these are getting very hard to get.

Drummerboy08

We also only lease new vehicles, so the Q7 has a list of around 80k. The BMW comes in around 50k.

On top of that, the longest term anyone will give for finance is 4 years.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Lots of people think they can get whatever they want for nothing at the moment. Consumers have an attitued that the vendor is desperate to sell whatever loss they would have to take. Also the price is no longer the price, its the starting point of a marakesh bizzar type haggeling process.

Yes value needs to return to the irish market, but buyers need to get real on the level of profit that a seller needs to make.

De Hipster

Supply & demand will usually dicate price eventually, I'd be happy to hold out in the current market.

maidhc

Emerson Tender Chick wrote: »

Lots of people think they can get whatever they want for nothing at the moment. Consumers have an attitued that the vendor is desperate to sell whatever loss they would have to take. Also the price is no longer the price, its the starting point of a marakesh bizzar type haggeling process.

Yes value needs to return to the irish market, but buyers need to get real on the level of profit that a seller needs to make.

I know, but buying a car in Ireland in the past 5 years was a miserable process whereby you begged to be sold a car.

There will be equilibriuim in time, but people are just enjoying it at the moment.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

De Hipster wrote: »

Supply & demand will usually dicate price eventually, I'd be happy to hold out in the current market.

Price is a bit more complicated than that, the dealer has stock that was bought at a specific price at a specific time, or orders new stock at a fixed price from the supplier. He/She adds some profit (important to make it worth while, pay tax, keep the economy running) and overheads (staff, buildings etc.). So the price is dictated by cost + profit + overheads. Just cause demand is low does not mean that products will keep falling till they reach zero in value untill somebody is willing to buy them.

Consumers are expecting that dealers are willing to make losses just to shift stock. Or on new car give massive discounts and make no profit. Yes there is more value now, and consumers seem to really enjoy "sticking it" to the dealers. But if the dealers cannot make a reasonable profit the industry will colapse and more will be unemployed.

If you want a new 520d then realise that just cause there is a recession does not mean that you will get one for 40k, or 30k, or 20k "cause sure nobody else is buying them". There is noting in it for the dealer so why bother. The dealer is not going to run after you, pleeding for a sale if you are not going to give them a reasonable return for the effort of running a dealership, they will close down instead and draw the dole, much less effort.

We have gone from being credit junkies to bargain junkies and expect premium products are bargain prices. The binging of credit got us into this mess and the lack of value consumers place on products and services now will keep us down here for a long time to come.

mickdw

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Just had another one on the phone. Wanted to buy a 520d SE Auto, but he had a limit of €40,000. :rolleyes:

I wouldnt have thought he was so far out that it is a laughable suggestion. A few manual 520d se on carzone, 2009 with 17 miles on the clock (never driven), 39,950. I know you said new cars,this one would be reg'd. He wanted auto but I dont feel this guy was totally in dream land. He might have been open to the suggestion of a manual.

Drummerboy08

mickdw wrote: »

I wouldnt have thought he was so far out that it is a laughable suggestion. A few manual 520d se on carzone, 2009 with 17 miles on the clock (never driven), 39,950. I know you said new cars,this one would be reg'd. He wanted auto but I dont feel this guy was totally in dream land. He might have been open to the suggestion of a manual.

Its a complicated thing, but we have to be the first regged owner to get the finance (its the agreement we have). It IS possible to put a pre-reg or demo on a lease, but its a nasty, complicated process to do so. There's a lot of hoops to jump through to get it.

Its so much easier to use new vehicles.

On top of that, when I suggested a manual, he wasnt impressed.

R.O.R

mickdw wrote: »

I wouldnt have thought he was so far out that it is a laughable suggestion. A few manual 520d se on carzone, 2009 with 17 miles on the clock (never driven), 39,950. I know you said new cars,this one would be reg'd. He wanted auto but I dont feel this guy was totally in dream land. He might have been open to the suggestion of a manual.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Its a complicated thing, but we have to be the first regged owner to get the finance (its the agreement we have). It IS possible to put a pre-reg or demo on a lease, but its a nasty, complicated process to do so. There's a lot of hoops to jump through to get it.

Its so much easier to use new vehicles.

On top of that, when I suggested a manual, he wasnt impressed.

When new vehicles are leased there is a partial amount of VRT that can be offset, this lessens the finance figure making monthly payments cheaper.

If a vehicle has been registered by the dealer as a Demo, they've already done the VRT jiggery pokery and it can't be done by the lease company - in a lot of cases, it works out more to lease an ex-demo than a new car.

mickdw

I understand all that, I was just making the point that its not a million miles away. Far enough though if you suggested a manual to him & he wasnt happy. I thought perhaps he was pricing you guys as a comparison to buying outright himself and this is where the pre- reg would come into play.

What is the typical monthly payment of a new 520d m sport

galwaytt

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

On top of that, the longest term anyone will give for finance is 4 years.

....and that needs to change. In the housing market the finance houses had to change to cope with both people's ability to pay and the (relative) price of the house(s). So, 30yr and more mortgages are now common. That's a 50% increase in term over what their parents would have lived with.

Don't see why you can't have whatever finance you want, over whatever term you want, if you're prepared to buy it. And if you lock a customer in for 5-10 years, you have guaranteed cashflow, and a customer, for that period. If you don't think that's worth having, think of it this way: if you are only prepared to have a customer for 4 years, in year 5 he might be someone else's. Why not lock him in for 5/6/7/whatever ? No-one is asking the finance houses to do it for free, merely to make the facility available, and to put a price on it.

Another way: Example: I may be nuts, but if Audi had a deal on anything close the R8 I drove on Tuesday, it'd be in the garage now. Or on the way. Why? Well if I tot up all the money I'll waste on cars over the next XX years, I'll have spent the price of it anyway !

maidhc

galwaytt wrote: »

....and that needs to change. In the housing market the finance houses had to change to cope with both people's ability to pay and the (relative) price of the house(s). So, 30yr and more mortgages are now common. That's a 50% increase in term over what their parents would have lived with.

Don't see why you can't have whatever finance you want, over whatever term you want, if you're prepared to buy it. And if you lock a customer in for 5-10 years, you have guaranteed cashflow, and a customer, for that period. If you don't think that's worth having, think of it this way: if you are only prepared to have a customer for 4 years, in year 5 he might be someone else's. Why not lock him in for 5/6/7/whatever ? No-one is asking the finance houses to do it for free, merely to make the facility available, and to put a price on it.

Another way: Example: I may be nuts, but if Audi had a deal on anything close the R8 I drove on Tuesday, it'd be in the garage now. Or on the way. Why? Well if I tot up all the money I'll waste on cars over the next XX years, I'll have spent the price of it anyway !

All true, but there is no point securing a loan on a car for more than 4 years.

Property, desipte the recent turmoil, generally does not depreciate or render itself worthless after 10 years of use.

And you can always top-up your mortgage to buy a nice car if you have the means and equity.

unkel

mickdw wrote: »

I understand all that, I was just making the point that its not a million miles away.

It's not a million miles away, but the auto brings it into a higher VRT band and the VRT is applied over the total OMSP. A pre-08 €3k auto option can now cost €6k because of this :eek:

mickdw

unkel wrote: »

It's not a million miles away, but the auto brings it into a higher VRT band and the VRT is applied over the total OMSP. A pre-08 €3k auto option can now cost €6k because of this :eek:

Yes, im aware of that. I just still dont think it was worth highlighting on boards as 'a crazy customer wanting something for nothing'

Drummerboy08

mickdw wrote: »

Yes, im aware of that. I just still dont think it was worth highlighting on boards as 'a crazy customer wanting something for nothing'

Considering that a new 520d SE Auto has a list price of almost 55k including metallic paint and delivery, a guy with a budget of 40k seems to me to be a long, long way off.

Johnny Utah

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

He needs to see a mortgage advisor so!

Just had another one on the phone. Wanted to buy a 520d SE Auto, but he had a limit of €40,000. :rolleyes:

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Considering that a new 520d SE Auto has a list price of almost 55k including metallic paint and delivery, a guy with a budget of 40k seems to me to be a long, long way off.

Unless he goes North!

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesandspecifications_detail/?seriesID=5&bodyID=LI&modelTypeKey=NX32

(Yes, I know the car in the link is a manual; I'm just using it as a rough example because I couldn't find the price for a 520d Auto. I'd say you could pick up a '08 520d Auto from the UK easily enough for €40k)






And then the car dealers wonder why they're going out of business....

Drummerboy08

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Unless he goes North!

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesandspecifications_detail/?seriesID=5&bodyID=LI&modelTypeKey=NX32

(Yes, I know the car in the link is a manual; I'm just using it as a rough example because I couldn't find the price for a 520d Auto. I'd say you could pick up a '08 520d Auto from the UK easily enough for €40k)






And then the car dealers wonder why they're going out of business....

It needs to be new in order to lease it. He had a price limit (refers to the list price of the car) of 40k, which I what I will call his budget, as essentially it was. There is no limit from the company he works for as to the monthly rental.

We also looked at buying certain cars new from the North, but after taking into account everthing required, and the time and effort, we decided not to.

Again, once everything is taken into account, it doenst work out that much cheaper.

mickdw

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Considering that a new 520d SE Auto has a list price of almost 55k including metallic paint and delivery, a guy with a budget of 40k seems to me to be a long, long way off.

List price! When did someone last pay list price for a 5 series? and on a straight purchase?

Im not saying he would get the car for 40k as he wouldnt but Im sure a deal could be done with the guy. and as someone said, its really about the repayment cost/month, not the purchase cost.

Drummerboy08

mickdw wrote: »

List price! When did someone last pay list price for a 5 series? and on a straight purchase?

Im not saying he would get the car for 40k as he wouldnt but Im sure a deal could be done with the guy. and as someone said, its really about the repayment cost/month, not the purchase cost.

Sorry. I'll explain this a bit better.

The company that this guy works for has a car policy, that puts a limit on the cars he's entitled to by list price, e.g. He's allowed any car with a list price of 40k or less.

The monthly rental doenst really bother them. Dont ask why, I've questioned it before, but to no avail.

mickdw

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Sorry. I'll explain this a bit better.

The company that this guy works for has a car policy, that puts a limit on the cars he's entitled to by list price, e.g. He's allowed any car with a list price of 40k or less.

The monthly rental doenst really bother them. Dont ask why, I've questioned it before, but to no avail.

Oh, thats totally different, I didnt take that from the original post. He simple cannot get into any 5 series so surely?

Drummerboy08

mickdw wrote: »

Oh, thats totally different, I didnt take that from the original post. He simple cannot get into any 5 series so surely?

Nope he cant. But he doesnt understand it. He's been into some BMW garage up the country, who have gotten it into his head that he could get a 520d Auto. It's like banging your head off a wall sometimes -

Him - But, the guy in BMW said I could afford one?
Me - The list price is too high, and you boss wont let me bend the rules on this one
Him - But, the 5 series fits if you look at it, right?
Me - No, I cant get it fit, and even if I could, your boss wont let you have one
Him - Oh, right. So how much would an X3 cost them?
Me - :mad:

mickdw

roughly, what would be the repayments on a 520d manual, 20k miles a year, keeping it for 3 years?

Just interested to know compared with a bank loan.

Drummerboy08

I quoted someone yesterday for a 520d Business edition Manual, and it came to around €1050 inc vat. That was based on 32k per year too by coincidence.

R.O.R

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I quoted someone yesterday for a 520d Business edition Manual, and it came to around €1050 inc vat. That was based on 32k per year too by coincidence.

Must adjust my RV's so

mickdw

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I quoted someone yesterday for a 520d Business edition Manual, and it came to around €1050 inc vat. That was based on 32k per year too by coincidence.

Thats more than I thought it might be. 36000 euro over 3 years & no car at the end. Does that include maintenance?

Drummerboy08

R.O.R wrote: »

Must adjust my RV's so

Ha, really? I dont think I was a million miles away with it...

mickdw wrote: »

Thats more than I thought it might be. 36000 euro over 3 years & no car at the end. Does that include maintenance?

That doesnt include maintenance. I'd stick on another €150 inc vat for that (if you were to maintain it yourself), to be safe, but you may get a cheaper price from someone who is looking for the business.

Also, think about it. You'd only be financing say €36k as opposed to the full price, say €45k.

If you were to hire purchase it, the rentals would be more like €1250 (if not more, because the finance rates are higher for HP) over 36 months.

R.O.R

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Ha, really? I dont think I was a million miles away with it...

You may (or may not) be a cheaper than us, but any competitor information is very welcome - cheers

mickdw wrote: »

Thats more than I thought it might be. 36000 euro over 3 years & no car at the end. Does that include maintenance?

Using the AIB calculator it would cost about €1,450 a month to finance a new 520d SE manual over 3 years so you are paying €52,200. What the asset is worth at the end of the term is the risk. If it's €16,000 or more you are up. Could end up being worth 10k.

Drummerboy08

R.O.R wrote: »

You may (or may not) be a cheaper than us, but any competitor information is very welcome - cheers

Cheeky begger.

Using the AIB calculator it would cost about €1,450 a month to finance a new 520d SE manual over 3 years so you are paying €52,200. What the asset is worth at the end of the term is the risk. If it's €16,000 or more you are up. Could end up being worth 10k.

And there lies the risk.

mickdw

Im not buying one but just getting an idea of costs versus personal loan.

I guess there is not alot in it. From some very rough figures, I think if I borrowed 45000 over 4 years, I would pay 1080 (based on 6.7%), At 36 month stage of that loan, 13,000outstanding so it pretty close to what you are saying. What would value of car be at 3 years I guess is the question