Gels/Carb & Sports Drinks

kennyb3

are these really required to finish a marathon? does anybody go teh water only route. i ve done halfs in training with no water but plan on drinking water for teh marathon tho. havent tried gels tho and dont wanna carry anything with me. i feel hand rythm and body rythm are important to my running.

am i mad thinking i can spend 3 and half hours plus running with only water?

RJC

kennyb3 wrote: »

a
am i mad thinking i can spend 3 and half hours plus running with only water?

the only way to answer that is to go out and do a 3 hour slow run. If you can do it with just water they it works for you. You generally only store about 18-20 miles of sugar in your body so after that you run out of them and slow down and get demotivated. A gel or two in the pocket of your shorts shouldn't interfere too much.

kennyb3

RJC wrote: »

the only way to answer that is to go out and do a 3 hour slow run. If you can do it with just water they it works for you. You generally only store about 18-20 miles of sugar in your body so after that you run out of them and slow down and get demotivated. A gel or two in the pocket of your shorts shouldn't interfere too much.

thanks, now to get my hands on some gels and have a tasting session.

ps perhaps a few fig rolls or a nutri grain bar could work? thats what i have on the bike.

RJC

The whole idea behind gels and sports drinks is that you need very little blood flow to the stomach and intestines to absorb them into the blood stream. If you have a fig roll you'll have to increase stomach activity to get it into the gut and then into the blood. This will draw blood from your legs/running system. (my €0.02 worth)

RedB

"ps perhaps a few fig rolls or a nutri grain bar could work? thats what i have on the bike. "

I find nutri-grain bars just suck the moisture out of my mouth when running and it feels like chewing sawdust! :eek: Gels work fine for me as long as you wash em down.

RacoonQueen

People were running marathons long before gels and sports drinks. What works for you, works for you. Some people believe they're just placebos.

racso1975

Have to say I feel the same way about the gels. Think they give a placebo effect but if they give that then they are a good thing but do make sure you experiment with them as they can be hard on the tummy.

I find fig rolls leave you very thirsty afterwards and powerbars are impossible for me to eat but thats just me.

what does work for me is the luzacade sport with added caffine (yellow bottle) but read the label as it is not suitable for caffine sensitive people.

Derekson

kennyb3 wrote: »

are these really required to finish a marathon? does anybody go teh water only route. i ve done halfs in training with no water but plan on drinking water for teh marathon tho. havent tried gels tho and dont wanna carry anything with me. i feel hand rythm and body rythm are important to my running.

am i mad thinking i can spend 3 and half hours plus running with only water?

I recently attended a talk given by a nutrionist and she said that some sports drinks are a useful addition providing fluid replacement, although she did say that those with high caffeine levels should be avoided. She was reluctant to recommend a brand but afte some pressure from the group she did recommend the Lucozade sport (still) range particularly the new clear range (not sure of the name)

From my experience I generally use water and supplement it with a small amount of sports drink if I feel it necessary, water loading the previous day to the race is very important for me and in the build up to the race itself. The trick is to try out and find what works best for you!

uglyjohn

There are few feeling worse than hitting the wall and knowing you have 7 miles more to go and nothing left to give. 7 more miles when you can hardly raise your hand to wipe the sweat from your eyes.....just imagine it, after buying fancy running shoes and spending 2 months training and telling everyone, your mates will get to see you being lapped by a granny dressed as pint of guinness :mad:


They work for some people. as RJC said have a try on a long run and see if they work for you.

When im doing my 18+mile runs i have a gel at 7 miles and nip home after 14 to grab a sports drink. i dont mind a few gels in my pocket and grabbed on the run. for my last marathon there werent any given out so someone here posted a link to a site showing how to pin them inside your shorts, it works really well , you wont even notice them there.

scottreynolds

From my reading, one of the problenm you can encouter with only water is that you are not replacing the lost salts that you loose from sweating - Hyponatremia. This can cause you to well drop out of the race....It really depends on how hard you run and what your used too, as well as your sweat rate.

While I agree some of the sports drinks methodology is crazy I think that you would be silly not to drink sports drinks -- it shouldn't do you any harm and may help you keep going. Obviously someone will say they can make you sick but that all depends on your constitution (and I don't mean Lisborn)...

As for carrying etc there's no difference between carrying water and sports drink and during a marathon I wouldn't carry wither use the aid stations.

pug_

Can anyone tell me where to get gels? I'm living in Newbridge so can't do Dublin, I've just never seen them in any sports shops, or anywhere else for that, but then again I wasn't really looking for them before so possibly didn't notice.

Also are there different types, and if so which ones are better?

I'm kind of clueless when it comes to this sort of thing. What I'm finding is when I go for long runs I get really hungry at some stage on the run, I tried eating bars but they just dry up my mouth and I find them hard to eat, so I was hoping gels would fill the gap a bit. I eat loads before going out on a long run, usually about a half hour before I start, big bowl of porridge, and a banana, maybe some yoghurt, and some toast, but I still get hungry.

The Davestator

In a similiar boat to the OP. I just bought a few different brands and flavours and have been trying them on my long runs. I find them good and they also act as a little 'crutch'. i.e. get to 45 mins and take a gel - something to think about!!

KentuckyPete

For carrying gels, I got a decent pair of triathlon knicks for DCM - they are tight fit and have two goodsized mesh pockets for holding gels. Because the pockets are tight the gels won't bounce up and down - you don't even notice them there.

The only downside is the good ol' cycling gusset - it takes a bit of getting used to on LSR's but it's OK.

My DCM nutrition plan is -
1. Mega-bowl of porridge with honey and nuts with tea and brown bread 90 minutes beforehand
2. Power Bar and banana 30 minutes beforehand
3. Power Bar gel at 6, 12, 18 and 23 miles washed down with water from the stations (am leaning towards the Vanilla gels lately)
4. A few toots of Energise sport as appropriate where it's available

TFBubendorfer

KentuckyPete wrote: »

My DCM nutrition plan is -
1. Mega-bowl of porridge with honey and nuts with tea and brown bread 90 minutes beforehand

That's a REALLY bad idea. Try a small bowl of porridge 3 hours beforehand instead.

hisholinessnb

pug_ wrote: »

Can anyone tell me where to get gels? I'm living in Newbridge so can't do Dublin, I've just never seen them in any sports shops, or anywhere else for that, but then again I wasn't really looking for them before so possibly didn't notice.

not sure if they are around Newbridge but I got the lucozade sports gels in boots chemists.

scottreynolds

I've been reading a book on sports nutrition so I'll paste there recommendation for before during after for the marathon tonight. They are very specific.

KentuckyPete

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That's a REALLY bad idea. Try a small bowl of porridge 3 hours beforehand instead.

Dunno lad - it's worked very well for me up to now. In fact any time I've eaten earlier or less for long runs I've ended up getting stomach cramps after 15 miles. A small bowl of porridge three hours beforehand and I'd be hungry before the race even started. Due to nerves I won't manage much of the bread and tea but the T-90 porridge blast is a definite. Each to his own I suppose

TFBubendorfer

KentuckyPete wrote: »

Dunno lad - it's worked very well for me up to now.

Each to his own I suppose

I suppose so, too. Personally I can't handle food eaten within 2 hours of a run.

RedB

uglyjohn wrote: »

There are few feeling worse than hitting the wall and knowing you have 7 miles more to go and nothing left to give. :mad:

Ehh...one of those things that is worse is hitting the wall and knowing you have 10 miles more to go and nothing left to give:mad::mad:. I'm not sure if gels are the answer but this time I'm planning on taking them every 8k from 10k

scottreynolds

scottreynolds wrote: »

I've been reading a book on sports nutrition so I'll paste there recommendation for before during after for the marathon tonight. They are very specific.

All numbers are from Sports nutrition for Endurance Athletes - Ryan (recommended to me on this forum)

At you get closer to the race on race morning you should consume less fodd as one of the dangers for runners is gastrointestinal upset form all the bouncing around of your organs. Going to the toilet in the middle of a marathon isn't cool either. So the recommendation is as follows (Obviously on race day don't do them all):

• 7 Days before start carbo loading
• Night Before - High Carbohydrate meal 3000g Low in Fibre and Fat, Lots of FLuids
• 3-4 Hours Prior 3-4g/kg of body weight of carbs. Low-fat protiens. e.g. Cereals breads
• 2 Hours Prior 2g/kg of body weight of carbs. Low-fat protiens. e.g. Cereals breads
• 1 Hour Prior 1g/kg of body weight of carbs. Sports Drinks, carbs drinks, gels
• Immediately Prior carbs. Sports Drinks, carbs drinks, gels

As you get closer to the start time you should eat less to avoid the above issues. Your body can only process so much food.

During the race the recommendation is for 20-30g of carbs per hour with sodium and other electrolytes to try to keep your glycogen levels up... by consuming 120-240ml of sports drink every 15 to 20 minutes.

When you break it all down and train using a nutrition plan its easier

kennyb3

As regards the sports drinks, are most people planning on using hydration belts or how do you plan to get yours?

louthandproud

I asked this before bu never really got a direct answer, maybe I am missing something but isn't one of the reasons for doing long runs to train your body to switch efficiently from glycogen to fat as a fuel source which will help reduce the "wall" effect. Now it seems to me if I am to use gels in long training runs that I am loosing out somewhat on this training benefit.

I can understand using them in a race, but less sure about using them too much in training, if at all, other maybe than just to get used to using them for races. Anyone care to comment?

TFBubendorfer

You didn't get a straight answer because it's a very individual thing.

I very rarely use gels in my training, and the reason is indeed that I want to train my body to use more fat rather than carbs. On the other hand, I tend to carry an emergency gel with me on my long runs. I rarely use it, but when you feel like toast after 15 miles but you're still 5 miles away from home, this can rescue your workout.

I also did 2 runs of 20 miles with 10 miles at marathon pace. I took at gel at mile 10 at each, to make sure I'd be able to run strongly all the way. Those 2 training runs were the only ones where I took a gel pre-planned.

I got 2 boxes of gels after last year's Dublin marathon. I still have about 5 gels left, despite using them in all races of 10 miles or longer, and in a couple of 10Ks as well.

As far as hitting the wall is concerned, during Saturday's Dingle marathon I took 2 gels (I carried 3 and brought the last one back home) and one bottle of sports drink provided by the race. The rest was water, and I didn't hit the wall. But I did cramp, which may have been related to a loss of electrolytes, who knows.

asimonov

louthandproud wrote: »

I asked this before bu never really got a direct answer, maybe I am missing something but isn't one of the reasons for doing long runs to train your body to switch efficiently from glycogen to fat as a fuel source which will help reduce the "wall" effect. Now it seems to me if I am to use gels in long training runs that I am loosing out somewhat on this training benefit.

I can understand using them in a race, but less sure about using them too much in training, if at all, other maybe than just to get used to using them for races. Anyone care to comment?

Hi Louthandproud, i am the same as you i don't use gels during training runs.

I know the likes of mcmillan advocate not using them during training for the reasons you've explained above, however the reverse of that argument is that you should take gels during these sessions to train your body to get used to absorbing these gels while running and using the carbohydrates in them..specificity and all that. Both points of view appear logical to me

scottreynolds

asimonov wrote: »

Hi Louthandproud, i am the same as you i don't use gels during training runs.

I know the likes of mcmillan advocate not using them during training for the reasons you've explained above, however the reverse of that argument is that you should take gels during these sessions to train your body to get used to absorbing these gels while running and using the carbohydrates in them..specificity and all that. Both points of view appear logical to me

Lets not confuse things. Macmillan recommends this for training to get used to low glycogen levels during training. Your are always going to be bruning both fat and sugar during all your runs. Macmillan also reccomends doing this not for every long run - you can take to much out of your body training only with water. Again, everyone is different but your running a risk of 'hitting the wall' while training. I can assure you from cycling that isn't a nice experience when your own your own.

Could it be that your long runs aren't at a hard enough pace?

asimonov

scottreynolds wrote: »

Lets not confuse things. Macmillan recommends this for training to get used to low glycogen levels during training. Your are always going to be bruning both fat and sugar during all your runs. Macmillan also reccomends doing this not for every long run - you can take to much out of your body training only with water. Again, everyone is different but your running a risk of 'hitting the wall' while training. I can assure you from cycling that isn't a nice experience when your own your own.

Could it be that your long runs aren't at a hard enough pace?

This is true I could be, but if my planned marathon pace is 6:45 and i'm doing my LSR's upto 22 miles at 7:20 - 7:30...surely i'm more or less in the right pace zone?

grasscutter

Hi

whats the best place in Limerick to buy the sport gels? I am getting ready for the dublin marathon and need to test them on my last 2 big training runs.

cheers

grasscutter

RedB

They have them in Gleesons Sports at the top of William St or the Bike Shop on O'Connell Ave. You could also buy a box from http://www.wiggle.co.uk/c/cycle/7/Energy~Recovery_Gels/
I'm currently trying the Science in Sport Go Gels which don't need water and the Power Bar ones which do.

henryporter

The Science in Sport Gells are excellent (for me anyway) and also vegetarian apparently (just in case there's any more veggie runners out there).

scottreynolds

asimonov wrote: »

This is true I could be, but if my planned marathon pace is 6:45 and i'm doing my LSR's upto 22 miles at 7:20 - 7:30...surely i'm more or less in the right pace zone?

Absolutely you are doing well on water no doubt but could you go faster. There has to be an optimal point and if you could train at 7:00 - 7:10 with the use of gels then perhaps you could run at 6:30 -- but only you really know. Ask me in a few years.. when I've more running done.

I think that in general that any advice, like gels etc, really only applies to beginner (or less experienced runners) because as you get fitter and train your body you will know better than anyone. It also depends on how slow and long your runs are.

grasscutter

RedB wrote: »

They have them in Gleesons Sports at the top of William St or the Bike Shop on O'Connell Ave. You could also buy a box from http://www.wiggle.co.uk/c/cycle/7/Energy~Recovery_Gels/
I'm currently trying the Science in Sport Go Gels which don't need water and the Power Bar ones which do.

cheers for the info red

Brianderunner

A word of warning for those using gels for the first time in the DCM. In the race 2 years ago i had one at mile 12 with plenty of water and nearly puked up! My race was shot to pieces after that. I was taking them on my LSR's (18,20,18 milers @ 7'30/7'40 pace) and all was ok, but at race speed (6'50)they just didnt go down well.

Bernard 291

Yes dont take gels the day of the race, I play rugby at decent standard and we take BSC or Body science gels top class Im doing the marathon this year as well and using them they have re sealable caps as well so get 2 3 servings during a long run which is good they are little expensive about 3.50 but dont need water and screw caps. Most important easy as to take.