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Getting into forex trading
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16-09-2009 2:10pm#1
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Shannonsider wrote: »Thanks for the advice Chrysostomos. I was thinking if its that easy why isn't everyone doing it and why are they wasting time coaching instead of making those high returns they claim can be made???
Hello sir, no problems.
Yeah exactly, if the "professional traders" there are so good why are they wasting their time teaching their "trading secrets" to others (Dangerous in it's own right, assuming they are "secrets" which they are probably not) when they could be literally extorting the markets with their "trading secrets" instead, does not make sense does it ?
The only people making money there are the people who are selling the programs themselves. 2,500GBP a student, class of twenty students ? I think I should get out of the trading business and into the education business, less time working and less stress
Shannonsider wrote: »Thanks for the advice Chrysostomos. I was thinking if its that easy why isn't everyone doing it and why are they wasting time coaching instead of making those high returns they claim can be made???
I understand that it can be difficult to succeed with. Do you mind if I ask you a few queries (Feel free to PM or ignore if they are too personal):
Nah I will answer them. (bored)
Are you a full time trader?
Yes
How long per day do you spend trading?
There is not a day I don't spend less than twelve hours watching the market, I reckon fourteen hours a day average. Some days more some days less. I remember when the Financial Crisis was happening last year the Forex markets became so volatile that literally every session was worth trading, I was "on call" twenty four hours a day, but during late New York session/Asia Session I would have a PC beside the bed with automatic alarms on to alert me when certain situations were occuring and wake me up from snoozing. Asian session volatility has obviously slowed a lot since then and it's not really worth staying awake for.
A lot of people think trading is great for the freedom but in reality it takes away your freedom to a massive extent. All this "I only trade when I want to trade" is total rubbish. And trading is risky as heck, what job do you know where on a Daily basis if you have a bad day you can end up with less money than you started the day with ?
Obviously I get Saturday and Sunday off because the Markets are closed, and I usually take NFP Fridays off(First friday of every month) and I will also take any American/UK Bank holidays off but never the exclusively Irish ones (Because American/UK banks will be closed - lack of liquidity etc etc, but I don't care about the Irish banks)
Can you get specialist software free or how much does it cost? The crowd above mention E-signal - which is $190 per month?
Meh, E-signal are decent. Like if your only starting off there is no way you can justify 190euro a month when you don't even know if you are going to like/going to be profitable at this thing. You can go open up a demo account with Oanda for nothing, or a lot of people including myself use Metatrader4, I personally use Tradestation (but you have to pay for it) for most things and it's great.
Those guys probably have an affiliate agreement with E-Signal by the looks of it, and hence why they are advertising it.
Price Feeds for the Spot Forex markets (unlike everything else) are free, so really nobody should have to pay for them unless you need some specific requirements charting wise.
How much of a return do you make on average from your investment?
This obviously varies month per month, and year after year it also varies because I have several accounts which have different purposes. I trade other peoples money as well as my own so on their accounts I make slow and steady increases the name of the game, I try my best to keep things conservative and prevent drawdown occuring, usually around 0-5% a month. These past few summer months have been rather slow but September is turning out to be a great month so far.
On other accounts my monthly %increases are higher because I carry the risk myself, usually 5-12/13% but this tends to vary as market conditions obviously vary.
It sounds easy but I mean I have spent thousands of hours on my methods, work extremely hard on a daily basis etc.
Any new trader, with discipline, patience, the ability to do what has to be done when it needs to be done and with a tested edge on the market should be looking at a solid 1-2% a month.
Experienced traders vary . . . Most 5-10% would be extremely good returns. I know another full time trader who get's a consistent 50% a month trading GBPJPY only, then again I know plenty of traders who are looking for and happy with 0-5% a month. 5% is a huge month for a lot of traders.
I remember before I got into trading seriously I had my compound interest calculator out looking at 5% a day return on 1k (5% a day turns on thousand euro into a million in a hundred days or something mad like that :pac:) In reality it's a different kettle of fish.
So I mean it varies, but the reality of it is that most people lose. Even people who would be considered by society as "really smart" etc, I was teaching a Dentist friend of mine who wanted to retire from Dentistry (Money was not good enough for him in Dentistry :eek:) how to trade early last year in some spare time, and he was absolutely useless and never got it. He never got it, eventhough I thought hime some strategy's I use myself, he is still trying eventhough he lost upwards of 50k already. That's the harsh reality for a lot of people.
To be honest if I knew what I now know when I was starting to trade I probably would never have started. There is great money in it but there is also serious risk, it's also probably the most soul destroying job out there, I am bored to tears 99% of the time. Fridays like today my mind is so cloudy and my eyes are so strained that I cannot wait for Market close this evening.
On the upside however you do get some serious daytime TV watching in :pac:
Take care,
Chrysostomos :cool:0 -
A friend of mine had actually asked me to go along to the seminar to see what I made of it. It seemed like they were targetting people who are fed up in their jobs/have lost their jobs and are looking for a 'really good opportunity'. They were pushing really hard to get people on the course of the seminar which all made me sceptical. If its that good, why aint everybody doing it???
At the same time it really got my juices going. I know very little about trading in general but from the seminar it looked like if you stick to your stop-loss and don't set your expectations too high, you could come out profitable (I know there's a whole lot more to it than this
)
The reason the course was appealing was that you get a day's coaching from a trader....which would probably be invaluable.
I don't intend on giving up the day job for now - but i'd love to explore this more and see if I could even make more from my money than just putting it on deposit. I'd love to be able to just get a bit of coaching on what's involved instead of forking out €3-4k on a course, software etc.
Just as a matter of interest what did you do before trading?? Again, if its too personal tell me to [EMAIL="f@!£"]f@!£[/EMAIL] off!0 -
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Yeah they are actually bastards the lot of them, they prey on peoples hopes and dreams "Oh yeah Ill have a nice second income for a few hours work" "Work from home" "Trade from anywhere". Everything seems to easy they forget to tell people about the thousands of hours of work required to break the consistency threshold.A friend of mine had actually asked me to go along to the seminar to see what I made of it. It seemed like they were targetting people who are fed up in their jobs/have lost their jobs and are looking for a 'really good opportunity'.
Really good opportunity to lose money is what ! :pac:
Lol yeah I know.:DThey were pushing really hard to get people on the course of the seminar which all made me sceptical. If its that good, why aint everybody doing it???
Yeah theres way more to it than this. I have no idea how they presented it but I know the type of rubbish they go on about in general. It all seems so easy, but in reality it's completely different.At the same time it really got my juices going. I know very little about trading in general but from the seminar it looked like if you stick to your stop-loss and don't set your expectations too high, you could come out profitable (I know there's a whole lot more to it than this )
No real trader will give up time from their trading day to teach anybody because they would be too busy trading and making money themselves to teach anybody. Don't get me wrong I have shown a few people to trade but at night and at weekends for a few hours etc and given general advice here and there, but I have a responsibility to myself and my investors to be concentrating 100% when the market is open.The reason the course was appealing was that you get a day's coaching from a trader....which would probably be invaluable.
Don't ever give up the day job. Actually a great idea to do it as . . . You know a sort of savings account, if you got good with experience and over time you could start putting up some fairly decent quarterly numbers with an hours work or so a day. Better than what the banks would give you anyway. But I mean to achieve that consistently you are still talking about - hundreds of hours work, discipline (only gained over time) patience (only gained over time) It's a hard slog at that.I don't intend on giving up the day job for now - but i'd love to explore this more and see if I could even make more from my money than just putting it on deposit. I'd love to be able to just get a bit of coaching on what's involved instead of forking out €3-4k on a course, software etc.
I don't mean to be negative about the whole thing, but I am simply being realistic, I know it sounds different to what a lot of people will tell you about the markets but . . That's because it's the truth to be honest.
Your trading against Central Banks/Retail Banks/Institutional Desks/Hedge Funds people with more money and more market information than you do. Then you have to pay spreads/commission. So the odds are severely against everyone, I was looking at . . . I think it was Oanda released the figure - That 70% of new accounts open are wiped out within a month, and 90% within a year. Then again I think it referenced a guy who turned 100dollars into 22k in a month, serious percentage gains there.
I have basically traded as my only source of income for years, I started extremely young though.Just as a matter of interest what did you do before trading?? Again, if its too personal tell me to f@!£ off!
If I had to choose a person to mould into a trader from scratch I would probably take a pro poker player, that is probably the only job that transfers well into trading.Amen to that
Ha ha I thought I was the only one!!
Hey there bro,
Trader as well ? How's this week been like for you ? What sort of instruments are you trading ? (If you don't mind me asking)@Chrysostomos Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your blog
Lol I don't have a blog :pac:
I do have a thread on here where im detailing a new intraday idea I have/general trading banter, so you can pop in there for a chin wag if you were so inclined . . .
Chrysostomos :cool:0 -
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I work in a prop shop so I can trade a bit of everything. Dip into different markets at different times of the day. Basically sit around all day and wait for something to appear.
I'm suprised you take off NFP, I would have thought you could make some nice money on the volatility. I don't do much currencies though so that might be the opposite for what you look for. In equities it's the business
Prop Shop ? How Bad eh
All day waiting ? Oh I know how that feels, like watching paint dry today apart from Cable which got it's ass in gear.
There are two days I despise in trading 1) NFP Days and 2) Interest Rate days, then again I just hate anything news related in general though as the Majority of my strategy's concentrate on potential orderflow buildup / correlations between things, all news related items blow that out of the water for me :pac:
There used to be serious money to be made on NFP Fridays and all big news related items really in the currency markets a few years ago, you could sign up to brokers who had fixed spread and "guaranteed execution". So you would straddle the news and get filled at prices that never really existed all the time. Of course Brokers eventually caught onto this and raised variable spreads / little chance getting filled without serious slippage now.
But there was good money to be made in it while it lasted :pac:.
Hope you had a good week Idu, don't party too hard, rest up ready to hit the battlefield again monday.
Chrysostomos0 -
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