How about this for a high-pressure cannula

tallaght01

We've all felt the trickle of sweat on our forehead, as we've tried to get a difficult cannula into someone in a high pressure situation.

These guys tried for 2 hours to get a vein, but they couldn't so they've put off the execution until next week!

Now, quite aside from the fact that i don't know how any doctor can reconcile participation in an execution with their medical training and hippocratic oath, imagine the pressure these guys must have been under.

And imagine the pressure they'll be under next week when they have another try!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26080906-401,00.html

EXECUTIONERS spent more than two hours trying to find a vein in which to inject a lethal dose to a convicted US killer before giving up.

Romell Broom was sentenced to death in an Ohio jail for the rape and murder of 14-year-old girl Tryna Middleton in Cleveland in 1984.

The state of Ohio reintroduced the death penalty in 1999, and Broom today became the first inmate since that date to have his execution stayed by the governor.

Another attempt to take Broom’s life will be made in a week.

Onlookers claim Broom appeared to be sobbing after one of many attempts by the execution team to access his veins.

At one stage, he even tried to help them himself.

After more than two hours of injections, Broom’s lawyer wrote to the Ohio Supreme Court Chief Justice to ask for a reprieve for his client, saying any further attempts to kill Broom “would be cruel and unusual punishment”.

Ohio’s execution laws have statutory requirements that lethal injections were to be “quick and painless”.
Some of Middleton's family members present to witness the execution were emotional afterward, prison spokeswoman Julie Walburn said.

"They were looking for closure and obviously they did not get that," she said.

It was not the first time Ohio has had difficulty executing a condemned man.

In May 2006, Joseph Clark sat up to tell his executioners the drugs intended to render him unconscious were not working.

The state subsequently added a step to its execution protocol where the warden tries to rouse the condemned prisoner after an initial dose of sedatives is administered before the injection of lethal drugs.

Ms Walburn said Broom's veins had appeared to be accessible in a medical evaluation.

MrPain

That must have been a horible experiance for all parties involved:eek:

SoWatchaWant

Hmmm, I can imagine. As coincidence would have it, I just put in my first cannula into a patient today- got it on the second attempt:)

Red Sleeping Beauty

Some people's veins just fail/drop when the needle goes in. I'd say that guy was in a helluva lot of pain having a needle poked and proded in and around his arm for so long. That'd be tantamount to torture!

Vorsprung

Why do they get a medical evaluation on a guy they're gonna kill?

RobFowl

tallaght01 wrote: »

Now, quite aside from the fact that i don't know how any doctor can reconcile participation in an execution with their medical training and hippocratic oath, imagine the pressure these guys must have been under.

And imagine the pressure they'll be under next week when they have another try!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26080906-401,00.html

Completely agree

Would it possibly be a factor that reputable doc's would not become invovled at at all and it's only the dodgy ones with poor clinical skills who take this sort of position?

DrIndy

External jugular vein folks and in extremis - there are usually good veins high up on the calves anteriorly and posteriorly.

tallaght01

DrIndy wrote: »

External jugular vein folks and in extremis - there are usually good veins high up on the calves anteriorly and posteriorly.

I think the shackles on his legs might make that difficult :P

RobFowl, that could be a point. I was told by someone else, though, that it's not dos who do the cannula. I don't know if this is true, though. But, bizarrely, they get a medical before they're killed. I saw it on a documentary once. And they get a psych assessment. This is supposed to ensure that they're not killing the mentally ill. But in the docu I saw, the lady seemed pretty much off the wall.

So, there are dos involved. I personally think they should be struck off. But I'm not sure how involved docs are with the actual execution process.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Aileen Worhos was killed and she had a few screws loose. Of course she had a psych test and was "cleared". Like any American doctor hired by the state to examine someone so many poweful people want dead would dare to return a "mentally ill" diagnosis or whatever.

SomeDose

tallaght01 wrote: »

I think the shackles on his legs might make that difficult :P

RobFowl, that could be a point. I was told by someone else, though, that it's not dos who do the cannula. I don't know if this is true, though. But, bizarrely, they get a medical before they're killed. I saw it on a documentary once. And they get a psych assessment. This is supposed to ensure that they're not killing the mentally ill. But in the docu I saw, the lady seemed pretty much off the wall.

So, there are dos involved. I personally think they should be struck off. But I'm not sure how involved docs are with the actual execution process.

AFAIK, in many cases, the only doctor involvement is to certify the prisoner's death. The cannulation and administration of the IVs can be done by non-medics, although a doctor being there to certify death may still be considered active participation I guess.

Michael Portillo did a documentary not too long ago, where he searched for an more acceptable and reliable form of execution. All current methods were deemed unsatisfactory due to either:
- too gory / unreliable (hanging, the chair, firing squad)
- convict suffering (as above, gas chamber)
- medical/ethical involvement (lethal injection)

In the end, nitrogen inhalation (i.e. anoxia) emerged as the best candidate since it was quick and painless procedure and didn't require "active" medical participation. But even this was deemed unsatisfactory by some hardline supporters of capital punishment as they didn't believe the convict should receive a painless death...

BMJ article on the subject

DrIndy

doctors do not participate in lethal injections in the USA and this is why the problems arise as "nurses" do this. There was a documentary on this where there is a prisoner in California who is permanently on death row because the court required a doctor to supervise the execution to ensure he did not suffer and all the anaethetists in california all refused citing medical ethics.

Result - standoff and the person is permanently living on death row with an immediate execution order but countermanding order which mandates a doctors presence!

I would never, ever participate in a lethal injection.

tallaght01

DrIndy wrote: »

all the anaethetists in california all refused citing medical ethics.

.

Now that gives me a it of pride in the profession

tallaght01

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Aileen Worhos was killed and she had a few screws loose. Of course she had a psych test and was "cleared". Like any American doctor hired by the state to examine someone so many poweful people want dead would dare to return a "mentally ill" diagnosis or whatever.

that's the lady I'm talking about!!

Turtwig

tallaght01 wrote: »

that's the lady I'm talking about!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Who Charlize Theron??:P