Does SIPTU really understand the Lisbon Treaty??

Grissom

I found this piece on SIPTU`s website tonight:


......."This (new protocol on guarantees in respect of Defence and Neutrality, Taxation, and the Right to Life, Education and the Family) will be enshrined in a legally binding Protocol which will be attached to the Treaty if, and when, it is finally ratified......."

Anybody that knows anything about the Treaty knows that these so called `guarantees`, and I use the word loosely, will only come into effect at the next ascession Treaty, if ever, and will NEVER feature in the Lisbon treaty.

Now I realise why the biggest trade union in the country is supporting a yes vote......... they don`t really understand it

Source: Welcome to SIPTU - The Union For All Workers - Feature

marco_polo

Grissom wrote: »

I found this piece on SIPTU`s website tonight:


......."This (new protocol on guarantees in respect of Defence and Neutrality, Taxation, and the Right to Life, Education and the Family) will be enshrined in a legally binding Protocol which will be attached to the Treaty if, and when, it is finally ratified......."

Anybody that knows anything about the Treaty knows that these so called `guarantees`, and I use the word loosely, will only come into effect at the next ascession Treaty, if ever, and will NEVER feature in the Lisbon treaty.

Now I realise why the biggest trade union in the country is supporting a yes vote......... they don`t really understand it

Source: Welcome to SIPTU - The Union For All Workers - Feature

They got the legally binding part right though.

K-9

marco_polo wrote: »

They got the legally binding part right though.

And the attached to the Treaty part, when it is ratified.

The OP seems to think they are "loose" legal guarantees though.
What's a 'loose' guarantee?

prinz

IIRC the guarantees as they are become legally binding as soon as the Lisbon Treaty is fully ratified and comes into being, regardless of the next accession treaty. Yep more vote No BS. Eh pal, obviously YOU don't understand it.

Joey the lips

I dont think this will have any bearing on weather or not people vote or dont vote. The crux of SIPTU is calling for a yes vote and you have just highlited this. So if your truly advocating a no vote your argurment is poor and if your argueing a yes vote with a double whammy of sorts well done!

Most people that will vote no will not vote no i suspect on the commissioner issue and all the various press around it. I suspect that the reason people will vote no is because of a mis trust fear and an annoyence with being asked again.

Asking society to vote again on something that we have already voted on is madness. It also highlites major mistakes in our own constitution which should have been corrected many moons ago when we signed up to europe.

There is now a widespread apthy of " Ah well dont worry if we are wrong they will ask us again" This is the sad reality of irish politics as a result of all this voteing.

SparkyLarks

Joey the lips wrote: »

I dont think this will have any bearing on weather or not people vote or dont vote. The crux of SIPTU is calling for a yes vote and you have just highlited this. So if your truly advocating a no vote your argurment is poor and if your argueing a yes vote with a double whammy of sorts well done!

Most people that will vote no will not vote no i suspect on the commissioner issue and all the various press around it. I suspect that the reason people will vote no is because of a mis trust fear and an annoyence with being asked again.

Asking society to vote again on something that we have already voted on is madness. It also highlites major mistakes in our own constitution which should have been corrected many moons ago when we signed up to europe.

There is now a widespread apthy of \" Ah well dont worry if we are wrong they will ask us again\" This is the sad reality of irish politics as a result of all this voteing.

Stop with the Red herring of voting twice. the analysis done after the last referendum showed that most people were worried about certain issues, comissioner, abortion, consription , tax ect.

the Government has recived guarantees and is not putting it to the people again to see if they
a) trust these guarnagtes and
b) given these guarantees would like to ratify the treaty

If you belive a & b then vote yes. If a majority of the people vote yes then that is the democratic will of the people.

Last time a majority voted no and the treaty was not ratified. Democracy
If a majority still vote no the treaty will still not be ratified.Democracy
If a majority vote yes the treaty will be ratified, Democracy.

I dont see what is un democratic? Are we to be stuck by a decision for ever.
On that reasoning, why have electrion every 5 years. I mean we voted why vote again?

am becasue people like to change their mind, If they have doen so in relatin to Lisbon is it not only fair to give them a chance to show it.

optocynic

SparkyLarks wrote: »

I dont see what is un democratic? Are we to be stuck by a decision for ever.
On that reasoning, why have electrion every 5 years. I mean we voted why vote again?

am becasue people like to change their mind, If they have doen so in relatin to Lisbon is it not only fair to give them a chance to show it.

Absolute truth... and as such, I would like to see another Abortion referendum in the coming decade...

As a nation we have matured, and the church does not have the strangle hold it once had... maybe we should be asked again... or rather, this generation should have their say!

Joey the lips

optocynic wrote: »

Absolute truth... and as such, I would like to see another Abortion referendum in the coming decade...

As a nation we have matured, and the church does not have the strangle hold it once had... maybe we should be asked again... or rather, this generation should have their say!

This has just proved my point! The policy document will not matter to most at the end of the day otherwise you would be calling for the removal of the safegards

SparkyLarks

Joey the lips wrote: »

This has just proved my point! The policy document will not matter to most at the end of the day otherwise you would be calling for the removal of the safegards

i\'m confused? what policy document
What safe guards, are you talking about abortin or the Lisbon treaty

are you saining multiple voting in undemocratic?

Joey the lips

SparkyLarks wrote: »

i\'m confused? what policy document
What safe guards, are you talking about abortin or the Lisbon treaty

are you saining multiple voting in undemocratic?

Confused yes you seem to be and no I am not saying multiple voteing is undemocratic however just for a curious though what happens if "NO" is voted in again? Will we be asked to vote again?

What is the point in voteing imo if what we say is not appreciated?

Just out of interest!