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A few questions. Not sure what to do!

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  • 15-09-2009 6:20pm
    #1
    dublinstudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭


    So I'm in my first week of 5th year and just discovered that my school won't be offering higher level mathematics next school year, which I absolutely need for at least 560+ points to be possible. My school has very limited subject choices, but the five others are ones I am absolutely interested in. I'm just saying - we never know, points might either go up or down in 2011 so I just want to make sure.

    Also, say, if I study honours math on my own or get grinds, will I be able to opt for the higher level exam even if I only did ordinary in school?

    Another thing: Do you think it's doable to study Accounting on my own over the next two years? If I'm ever going to do it, I plan on incorporating it on my timetable as I see fit. I am pretty determined on my studies, and I think it wouldn't be a problem with proper time management. Has anybody ever done the same? In the first place, though, is it possible to sit an exam at all which I only studied on my own?

    Anyway, can anyone recommend a book for higher level accounting and anything else related? Any advice or tips would be highly appreciated! Thanks. Sorry for the looong question.:)


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    #2
    sashafierce
    Registered Users Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭sashafierce


    This post has been deleted.


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    #3
    dublinstudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭dublinstudent


    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    That makes me feel a little bit better. Mind if I ask which book(s) you used, as I have no idea which one I should get!


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    #4
    The Big Red Button
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    dublinstudent wrote: »
    Also, say, if I study honours math on my own or get grinds, will I be able to opt for the higher level exam even if I only did ordinary in school?

    Yes, you should definitely be able to do this, just get it organised with the school well in advance.
    dublinstudent wrote: »
    Another thing: Do you think it's doable to study Accounting on my own over the next two years? If I'm ever going to do it, I plan on incorporating it on my timetable as I see fit. I am pretty determined on my studies, and I think it wouldn't be a problem with proper time management. Has anybody ever done the same? In the first place, though, is it possible to sit an exam at all which I only studied on my own?

    If you've any aptitude for it, accountancy is definitely a subject which you can study on your own. The main thing you'll need is the exam papers, and see if you can get the solutions of all the questions somewhere. Also try and get a textbook that has solutions to the problems included.

    If you can afford it, you could enquire about getting grinds for even just one hour a month to make sure you're on the right track and to ask any questions you might have.

    As for sitting an exam which you only studied on your own - it shouldn't be a problem at all, again you'll just have to organise this with the school.

    Good luck!


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    #5
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    dublinstudent wrote: »
    So I'm in my first week of 5th year and just discovered that my school won't be offering higher level mathematics next school year........will I be able to opt for the higher level exam even if I only did ordinary in school?

    Another thing: Do you think it's doable to study Accounting on my own over the next two years?

    That's absolutely despicable a school could do this!!

    Yes you can do both outside school and sit the exams no problem.
    Whether you have the aptitude only you can know.

    My advice would be to take LCVP and pass Irish, then during those classes to study the subjects you are interested in (during religion too of course).

    Only neglect Irish of course if you feel you can honour the pass no problem by the way or else if you don't want to go to an NUI.


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    #6
    pathway33
    Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    dublinstudent wrote: »
    my school won't be offering higher level mathematics next school year

    Is that legal?


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    #7
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    enda1 wrote: »
    That's absolutely despicable a school could do this!!
    They may not have much choice if it's a small school, and only a couple of people want to do HL maths ... I suspect that we may be looking at the cuts in teacher / student ratio impacting in real life here

    I agree though that it's a horrendous situation that any school is forced to cancel HL maths of all things ... so much for all Batt's shouting about maths and science.


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    #8
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,139 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Welcome to the cutbacks.
    Please remember this when you're voting.

    OP - you can enter for whatever level you want. if you are studying HL Maths outside school, let your school exam secretary know. There may well be a teacher who is willing to give you some help by correcting past papers for you etc.


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    #9
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    pathway33 wrote: »
    Is that legal?

    While it's a horrendous situation as I said, on what basis would it be illegal?


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    #10
    pathway33
    Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    While it's a horrendous situation as I said, on what basis would it be illegal?

    Don't know. That the state has a responsibility to provide a child with an education to a level which provides them with a decent quality of life. If a student's hearts desire since knee high has been to be an engineer, then for that citizen a decent quality of life could only be provided by being an engineer and thus being provided with the facility to do leaving cert higher maths. Doubt if that would stand up in court though.


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    #11
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    I think you're thinking of the guarantee in the Constitution to treat all the children of the state equally*

    I see where you're coming from, but it would be very difficult to translate in practice in this situation, and the SC wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

    Allow that one and people would be in a position to demand that all possible subjects would be made available in all schools regardless of resources provided there was at least one student interested in taking then up.



    * [pedant] which would make it unconstitutional, not illegal [\pedant] :pac:


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    #12
    soccymonster
    Registered Users Posts: 9,553 ✭✭✭soccymonster


    OP, any chance you'd move schools?

    About 4 pupils from west clare moved to my school because their schools were badly affected by cutbacks.
    A girl I made friends with moved just because her old school wasn't providing history anymore.

    Its just a thought.


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    #13
    sashafierce
    Registered Users Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭sashafierce


    This post has been deleted.


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    #14
    soccymonster
    Registered Users Posts: 9,553 ✭✭✭soccymonster


    OP, my school uses "accounting for senior cycle - Christy tyrell" if thats any help on finding a book.

    http://www.schoolbooks.ie/22670-Accounting+for+Senior+Cycle+Educational+Company+School+Book


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    #15
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    My school had 100 students altogether and I (eventually) was the only student taking HL Maths for the Leaving Cert and there was no way my class would be dropped.

    I can't understand how a school can't offer this, after all it's a core subject.


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    #16
    jumpguy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    Unbelievable! Our school suffered cutbacks too, but it was only the loss of a language, and we got to vote for the language to keep, and the vast majority wanted German (including myself). But cutting a CORE subject like maths...unthinkable! I'd have never imagined such a cut in my life. If they cut Irish to save money I'd be much happier tbh!


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    #17
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    enda1 wrote: »
    That's absolutely despicable a school could do this!!

    Well they mightn't have a choice, if you have a school with say 40 students in 5th year and 39 are doing ordinary level and one wants to do higher level, a principal can't justify putting on three classes, 2 ordinary with 19/20 in each and one higher level class with just one student. It's common enough in small schools that there is no higher level maths.
    pathway33 wrote: »
    Is that legal?

    Probably. A school can only offer subjects based on their resources.
    pathway33 wrote: »
    Don't know. That the state has a responsibility to provide a child with an education to a level which provides them with a decent quality of life. If a student's hearts desire since knee high has been to be an engineer, then for that citizen a decent quality of life could only be provided by being an engineer and thus being provided with the facility to do leaving cert higher maths. Doubt if that would stand up in court though.

    That's a bit extreme, there's a big difference between wants and needs. A student can have a decent quality of life without being an engineer. I'm not saying it's right but classes with twos and threes can't be provided in every subject. It wouldn't stand up in court anyway, a student can do engineering in an IT without higher level maths.

    thomond2006 wrote: »
    My school had 100 students altogether and I (eventually) was the only student taking HL Maths for the Leaving Cert and there was no way my class would be dropped.

    I can't understand how a school can't offer this, after all it's a core subject.


    If your class had bigger numbers originally starting off, it was already on the timetable for the year so they wouldn't pull it midway through the course. The school are offering maths as a core subject. The level at which it's taught is not core. If this were to happen in every school and every student got exactly the 7 subjects they wanted and at the levels they wanted there would easily be 8 or 9 subjects running at the same time for each of the choice subjects a student picks and that isn't a realistic way of running a school.

    A friend of mine taught in a secondary school that had only 75 students in the school, so about 15 for LC every year. No higher level maths for LC. Every had to do French for LC and they picked their remaining three subjects from combinations such as Home Ec v Construction, Geography v Ag Science, and Business v Biology. Tough luck if you don't like what's on offer.

    jumpguy wrote: »
    Unbelievable! Our school suffered cutbacks too, but it was only the loss of a language, and we got to vote for the language to keep, and the vast majority wanted German (including myself). But cutting a CORE subject like maths...unthinkable! I'd have never imagined such a cut in my life. If they cut Irish to save money I'd be much happier tbh!

    Maths isn't being cut, maths is still being offered, just not at all three levels.


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    #18
    dublinstudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭dublinstudent


    enda1 wrote: »
    My advice would be to take LCVP and pass Irish, then during those classes to study the subjects you are interested in (during religion too of course).

    Well, thankfully I am exempted in Irish so I can just concentrate on one language :pac:


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    #19
    pathway33
    Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    dublinstudent wrote: »
    Well, thankfully I am exempted in Irish so I can just concentrate on one language :pac:

    so when you have a free period during irish class get a maths teacher to help you honours maths. I think the school owe you that at the very least.


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    #20
    dublinstudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭dublinstudent


    soccymonster wrote: »
    OP, my school uses "accounting for senior cycle - Christy tyrell" if thats any help on finding a book.

    http://www.schoolbooks.ie/22670-Accounting+for+Senior+Cycle+Educational+Company+School+Book

    Thank you so much! I'll check it out down the weekend and will try to come to a decision so I can start studying.


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    #21
    dublinstudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭dublinstudent


    pathway33 wrote: »
    so when you have a free period during irish class get a maths teacher to help you honours maths. I think the school owe you that at the very least.

    I did ask my maths teacher earlier, and she said the least she can do is check on my progress from time to time - not so bad, yeah? One of my friends is also willing to go over the HL mathematics books with me so I guess that's sorted somehow :D


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    #22
    dublinstudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭dublinstudent


    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Thanks, that's very helpful lol. I kid. I guess I'll just go with the other suggestion, as the book you're referring to might already be a little outdated :D


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    #23
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    I am absolutley amazed at this, whatever about not offering different subjects, but to not offer higher level in a core subject is a disgrace.

    Surely every school should be required to offer subjects which are needed for matriculation, by not being able to do higher maths your choice of college courses is limited, i.e. you are being discriminated against. This doesn't happen for most subjects as matriculation is normally limited to core subjects or a science subject, and i'm sure all schools will offer at least one science.

    Did the school only inform you of this when u went back this year, if so that is very bad, I understand that the school may have to make cutbacks but they should be doing all they can.

    I think your best options are try go to another school if you can.
    Talk to the principal and maths teachers in your school, they may well be willing to facilitate you in some way, especially if you are a good student and they know you will work at it.
    Get onto some local representative(concillor/TD) see can they help.
    Otherwise you may have to go with grinds, which really would be a disgrace.

    I hope it works out well for you OP and am sorry to hear of the situation u are being put in.


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    #24
    dublinstudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭dublinstudent


    chatterpillar wrote: »
    If you can afford it, you could enquire about getting grinds for even just one hour a month to make sure you're on the right track and to ask any questions you might have.

    My mom is an accountant and I'm sure she'd be more than willing to assist me - very handy! I guess I'll take up accountancy after all.


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    #25
    --hughesy--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭--hughesy--


    im confused. what kind of school in Co. Dublin would have such a small class that they couldn't afford to run Higher Maths...

    no offence to you if you are very passionate about your school:D


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    #26
    dublinstudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭dublinstudent


    --hughesy-- wrote: »
    im confused. what kind of school in Co. Dublin would have such a small class that they couldn't afford to run Higher Maths...

    no offence to you if you are very passionate about your school:D

    To tell you the truth I am not passionate about the school itself, but I enjoy the lectures nonetheless :pac: When I went in for registration, one of the teachers told me that there are only about three people who have expressed interest in HL Maths so they probably won't offer it in 6th year.

    I bet they won't accommodate our need for a HL Maths teacher unless people change their mind and we end up with an enormous class size, like how it is with our Biology and Physics! It's quite horrendous.


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