Newbies - do you want to 'learn' how to skirmish/airsoft??

Decoy

As I'm only new to airsoft I am keen to get up to speed as soon as possible to make me a more effective skirmisher purely so I can enjoy it more. We all like a bit of spray & pray but to take it to the next level, to get to the point where you can skirmish effectively with the more experienced airsofters on the field, there is a steep learning curve in terms of tactics & skills so why not try to get there faster? As it's my local airsoft site I asked GoTac/Hellfire if they would be interested in running a day's demo/instruction in basic skirmishing for newbies like myself. They asked the question in the retailer/site section but to date there have only been a couple of responses, surely there are more rookie skirmishers out there who would like to have the option of a day like this? If you are one of these guys or gals please respond to GoTacs question in the relevant section as they will need a minimum number of participants to make it viable.

Just to be sure there are no misunderstandings, I have absolutely no connection/affiliation to GoTac/Hellire, they just happen to be my local retailer/site which is why I asked the question of them first. I would be equally happy if any site on the east coast were to run a training day for rookies. Is this something the IAA should look at, perhaps sorting out an official curriculum that could be used at any site?

Cheers, Mark.

OddysAirsoft

I am an expert..........so if ya need help...let me know an I will bring you out and show u the ropes

Bernie Mac

Just before I begin just want say this is all my personal opinion :rolleyes:

there isn't much that you can be thought on how to skirmish. Like most things its down to experience and training from gaming over and over you begin to pick things up and eventually get a much better situational awareness.

now obviously there are things you can get thought like taking cover, movement, reloading, etc. but the majority of it is from expereince the main thing is the range of engagments.

From my experience the main thing that always has people wasting ammo is shooting well out of range and then screaming at the player and marshals that they aren't taking the hits.

simple things liek that are just learned from constant gaming

Decoy

Some fair points Bernie Mac, but what you're not taking into account is that not everybody has the time or money to skirmish every week. For example, if I am lucky I will be able to skirmish once every 6-8 weeks so how long will it take me to gain the "experience and training from gaming over and over". When I get the opportunity to skirmish I want to be able to enjoy it. For me that means developing the necessary skills as soon as possible, skills that are usually "learned from constant gaming", and if a day spent with experienced airsofters specifically to learn the basics helps me to do that it will be money & time well spent. I'd hazard a guess that I'm not the only one in the same boat.

Thanks Oddy, isn't it funny how many pursuits you are an expert in. You're not online with your COD buddies now!

OddysAirsoft

Look....I can't help if I am a natural and its true I am an expert in most things I turn my hand to

if I am lucky I will be able to skirmish once every 6-8 weeks

that shud read 6-8 MONTHS :eek::eek::eek::D:D:D

Dread-Lock

I gotta say I'm with Bernie Mac on this one. You don't just pick things up in a day, you have to get out regularly.

Decoy

I'm not suggesting the attendees would be special-ops or ready to join a team at the end of 1 days training, far from it, all I've said is that it would suit me and maybe it would work for others as well. We all learn differently, I have always preferred to learn (at least some of) the basic theory first thenlearn to apply it rather than the monkey-see-monkey-do approach, that way it's easier for me to adapt/fine-tune what I have learnt to different situations.

Dread-Lock

If you don't mind me asking, what negative comments? Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean its a negative comment.
But I apologize if my comment seemed negative, or if you feel I was backing up a negative comment, that was not my intent.

I just find, from experience, that when you try and teach someone/give them pointers if you just dump a load of info on their lap that they find it hard to remember everything let alone apply it.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, everyone learns at their own pace. I wish you all the best with this!

captaindanwaldo

I’m afraid I agree with Bernie Mac & Dread-Lock I think that the best way to become ‘effective’ is not from learning how others do it but by discovering how you do it. By recognising what your strong-points are and where your weaknesses lie is the only real way of progressing and that only really comes with time and experience.

On the bright-side I am sure there are certain skills you could be sharpening off the field and the greater understanding of your limitations you have will make you much more effective during games.

Decoy

Thanks to everyone for their replies, if nothing else the disparate views show how diverse the airsoft community is which can only be a good thing.

captaindanwaldo, Dread-Lock, Bernie Mac, to give me a better idea where you're coming from can you tell me how often you skirmish?

For my part I think it would be beneficial for ME to try to attend a training/induction day, wherever it's run. Live & let live (unless they're on the other team)

captaindanwaldo

Cyprinus Carpio wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their replies, if nothing else the disparate views show how diverse the airsoft community is which can only be a good thing.

captaindanwaldo, Dread-Lock, Bernie Mac, to give me a better idea where you're coming from can you tell me how often you skirmish?

For my part I think it would be beneficial for ME to try to attend a training/induction day, wherever it's run. Live & let live (unless they're on the other team)

Almost every week for the last year im a relativley new player myself

Mauriceg

Its like any sport. You can read the rule books, do a few basic drills, ask other players for their experiences. But only by putting these things into practice and doing them on a regular basis will you learn and get better. I rarely get out at weekends, something to do with having young kids but everytime I do, I find myself being that little bit better, that little bit more accurate.

Dread-Lock

Cyprinus Carpio wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their replies, if nothing else the disparate views show how diverse the airsoft community is which can only be a good thing.

captaindanwaldo, Dread-Lock, Bernie Mac, to give me a better idea where you're coming from can you tell me how often you skirmish?

For my part I think it would be beneficial for ME to try to attend a training/induction day, wherever it's run. Live & let live (unless they're on the other team)

I'm sure it would be beneficial for some and for that reason I hope this gets off the ground.

As for how often I skirmish, unfortunately not very much at the moment. Just don't have the time. (Hopefully that'll change soon though). But I used to get out every second weekend.

Bernie Mac

Cyprinus Carpio wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their replies, if nothing else the disparate views show how diverse the airsoft community is which can only be a good thing.

captaindanwaldo, Dread-Lock, Bernie Mac, to give me a better idea where you're coming from can you tell me how often you skirmish?

For my part I think it would be beneficial for ME to try to attend a training/induction day, wherever it's run. Live & let live (unless they're on the other team)

My skirmishing has gone down in the last while. I would have skirmished every weekend for a good 3 to 4 months and i must say from that I learned alot. But it was shot down to wednesday evenings because I would work the weekends.

To be totally honest there is things you can not teach such as a situational awareness. I see large numbers of fresh new players who assume they can play airsoft because they are on level 55 in COD and completed GRAW on hard by means of a controller which only requires you move your thumbs and fingers in a certain order means you can play airsoft (no offence ment to anybody its only a joke).

Airsoft is also largely to do with fitness because there is a lot of running (especially if you get hit a lot) back and fort from respawn points and from cover to cover.

As well Blue on Blue is always a thing that new players cant avoid. They are just to working as a team. So the only training I can see is fitness training and working as a team as well as some basics such as muzzle awareness (which is always neglected in airsoft), moving to and from cover and then basic engagement guidelines and working with hop-ups

Again just a dislcaimer this is all my personal opinion and completly open to anyone who would disagree

Stonewolf

I disagree with the majority comment on this thread.

Airsofting CAN be taught.

A soldier can be taught the techniques for effective firearms combat, therefore an airsofter can be taught the techniques for effective airsoft play.

Yes, practice is a major and required element however I think you'll find that an army doesn't just tell a soldier "go put your training gear on, hit the training area for a few hours and then come back for mess", it first instructs the soldier in the technique he'll be practicing today and then brings him through a number of scenarios in which it is useful. Practice extends from there, refining your execution of the technique.

So in my opinion an experienced, trained and studied airsofter can draw up a number of techniques and drills to teach a newb and bring them through them. It's up to the newb to put them into practice but that doesn't mean it's unteachable.

Bernie Mac

Stonewolf wrote: »

I disagree with the majority comment on this thread.

Airsofting CAN be taught.

A soldier can be taught the techniques for effective firearms combat, therefore an airsofter can be taught the techniques for effective airsoft play.

Yes, practice is a major and required element however I think you'll find that an army doesn't just tell a soldier "go put your training gear on, hit the training area for a few hours and then come back for mess", it first instructs the soldier in the technique he'll be practicing today and then brings him through a number of scenarios in which it is useful. Practice extends from there, refining your execution of the technique.

So in my opinion an experienced, trained and studied airsofter can draw up a number of techniques and drills to teach a newb and bring them through them. It's up to the newb to put them into practice but that doesn't mean it's unteachable.

Actually fair point didnt think about it that way. But obviously the easiest way is by repeating it. The military are thought and drill over and over and over and over again. So its a bit of both worlds. Its a matter of been told and taught what to do and as you said it is then up the trainie to put it into practise.

Dread-Lock

Stonewolf wrote: »

I disagree with the majority comment on this thread.

Airsofting CAN be taught.

A soldier can be taught the techniques for effective firearms combat, therefore an airsofter can be taught the techniques for effective airsoft play.

Yes, practice is a major and required element however I think you'll find that an army doesn't just tell a soldier "go put your training gear on, hit the training area for a few hours and then come back for mess", it first instructs the soldier in the technique he'll be practicing today and then brings him through a number of scenarios in which it is useful. Practice extends from there, refining your execution of the technique.

So in my opinion an experienced, trained and studied airsofter can draw up a number of techniques and drills to teach a newb and bring them through them. It's up to the newb to put them into practice but that doesn't mean it's unteachable.

I never said it was unteachable. If it was unteachable how would anybody learn?
Yes a soldier can be taught the techniques for effective combat...but are you going to teach him in one day? No. Cyprinus was looking to set up a day's demo. I said it would not be a good idea to just dump a load of tips and techniques on them in one day. As it would be very hard to remember everything, let alone apply it in a combat situation.

Now if Cyprinus was to try and set up a training course, I think that would be a much better idea. Say like a 4 week course (just for example). And that way instead of trying to cram everything they need to know all in one day. The work load would be spread over 4 weeks. Which gives people more time to practice the techniques they are shown on the day, which will let it sink in more.

Spetzcong

One of the things you'll need to figure out is what particular role you wish to play in airsofting, are you a sniper? Rifleman? Support Gunner? CQB Specialist? Not all roles are the same, all require different skills and the training will be different for each. In the military they break the different squad roles down and focus on the rifleman being the simplist role and the basic building block upon which all other roles are based.

To be honest I'd fall into the camp that thinks that you learn more by doing than reading the theory. If you really do want to read the theory there is plenty of literature online detailing tactics and methodology for various infantry roles. The theory is usually aimed at squads of infantry rather than individual soldiers though, as military training usually seeks to teach the individual soldier in the context of the group within which he or she will be operating.

A lot of the theory will also be irrelevant from an airsoft perspective due to the reduced ranges at which we operate and the nature of airsoft skirmishes themselves. Some of the theory i.e. contact drills, fire and manouver tactics, target aquisition and identification and fields of fire will be of more use to the airsoft skirmisher, however these are all things that are practiced by soldiers to the point that they become instinctive. Having a knowlegde of them is no harm, but they really only become useful when you and the people you game with can put them into effect without even having to think about them.