Disregarding Jesus

bakkiesbotha

John 14:6 says:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

This message could only have reached a tiny fraction of the world at the time it was delivered, and even though it has spread to almost all of the world by now, billions of people have been excluded from the possibility of being saved simply because God never told them what was required.

I made this point on an After Hours thread some time ago, and Jakkass replied that other verses in the Bible give cause to doubt the above.

Now my understanding is the following:

God has had several covenants with man, all of which are described in the Bible. Any contradictions in the Bible are nothing more than different versions of the rules that applied under different covenants. The covenant currently in force is the one that Jesus brought to earth.

If this is true, then what Jesus said takes precedence over anything else in the Bible. And Jesus said the above.

Therefore God does not love all of us equally, because He only chose certain people to receive the message of salvation, and left vast numbers of people in the dark about it.

Furthermore, it also follows that a new covenant could well be in force and God has only let a tiny number of people in on the secret, just like He did back in 1 A.D.

Soul Winner

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

John 14:6 says:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

This message could only have reached a tiny fraction of the world at the time it was delivered, and even though it has spread to almost all of the world by now, billions of people have been excluded from the possibility of being saved simply because God never told them what was required.

I made this point on an After Hours thread some time ago, and Jakkass replied that other verses in the Bible give cause to doubt the above.

Now my understanding is the following:

God has had several covenants with man, all of which are described in the Bible. Any contradictions in the Bible are nothing more than different versions of the rules that applied under different covenants. The covenant currently in force is the one that Jesus brought to earth.

If this is true, then what Jesus said takes precedence over anything else in the Bible. And Jesus said the above.

Therefore God does not love all of us equally, because He only chose certain people to receive the message of salvation, and left vast numbers of people in the dark about it.

Furthermore, it also follows that a new covenant could well be in force and God has only let a tiny number of people in on the secret, just like He did back in 1 A.D.

Think of Jesus as the only gate granting access to a field or the only door to a house. Unless you come through the gate or door (with permission of course) you come as a thief and a robber. The Old Testament sacrifices were all types of what Christ did in His death. Think of them like paper money which is backed up by the hard gold in the bank. The hard gold in this case is the life of Jesus which was held in the bank of heaven and which - once the paper money's value was called into question - can be produced to buy up the paper money, or redeem the paper money. He bought up all the chits spent through the annual offering of sacrifices which had no intrinsic value in themselves just as paper money has no intrinsic value in itself.

So yes we cannot come in except through Jesus but that doesn't mean that people who have never heard of Jesus won't be saved, what it means is that He paid the price for everyone and that there will be no redeemed in heaven who is there on any basis other than His sacrifice. In short, unless Jesus did what Jesus did the basis for which anyone could be saved would not have come about and we would all still be in our sins without hope.

Phototoxin

what about wimmenz? :pac:

Any linkies of verses that dispute it?

bakkiesbotha

Soul Winner wrote: »

Think of Jesus as the only gate granting access to a field or the only door to a house. Unless you come through the gate or door (with permission of course) you come as a thief and a robber. The Old Testament sacrifices were all types of what Christ did in His death. Think of them like paper money which is backed up by the hard gold in the bank. The hard gold in this case is the life of Jesus which was held in the bank of heaven and which - once the paper money's value was called into question - can be produced to buy up the paper money, or redeem the paper money. He bought up all the chits spent through the annual offering of sacrifices which had no intrinsic value in themselves just as paper money has no intrinsic value in itself.

The purpose of this analogy is to explain how people before Jesus got into heaven? You are saying that, although they didn't know it, and although it had not yet happened during their time, the basis for their admittance to heaven was the future materialisation of Jesus. In effect, they were drawing down on this event which hadn't yet happened.

It seems like a very tortuous way of reconciling the Old and New Testaments, if you don't mind my saying so. It also seems unnecessary. I thought the accepted method of reconciling the two books was this view of the various covenants that God entered into with mankind?

Soul Winner wrote: »

So yes we cannot come in except through Jesus but that doesn't mean that people who have never heard of Jesus won't be saved, what it means is that He paid the price for everyone and that there will be no redeemed in heaven who is there on any basis other than His sacrifice. In short, unless Jesus did what Jesus did the basis for which anyone could be saved would not have come about and we would all still be in our sins without hope.

So those who have not heard of Jesus, have not repented of their sins, and who have not accepted him as their saviour can get into heaven? Is that not a contradiction of the very fundamentals of Christian belief?

Soul Winner

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

The purpose of this analogy is to explain how people before Jesus got into heaven? You are saying that, although they didn't know it, and although it had not yet happened during their time, the basis for their admittance to heaven was the future materialisation of Jesus. In effect, they were drawing down on this event which hadn't yet happened.

It seems like a very tortuous way of reconciling the Old and New Testaments, if you don't mind my saying so. It also seems unnecessary. I thought the accepted method of reconciling the two books was this view of the various covenants that God entered into with mankind?

Not sure who said it but the following quotes fits right here:

"The eternal Word became the living Word to become the spoken Word to become the written Word to become the preached Word."

If this Eternal Word is truly Eternal then it matters not at what time (as we would view it) that He comes. He is called the Lamb which was slain before the foundations of the world which means that this plan of redemption was ready to be put into place should it be called upon. He stepped forth from heaven's glory and left the throne of God and humbled Himself, also emptying Himself of all His power as the constrictive path towards the cross loomed. This might seem unnecessary to us as we might have done things differently, but our ways are not God's ways.

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

So those who have not heard of Jesus, have not repented of their sins, and who have not accepted him as their saviour can get into heaven? Is that not a contradiction of the very fundamentals of Christian belief?

The point is that anyone who does make it into heaven does so on the basis of Christ and not on anything that they can bring to the party. God has guaranteed that those who live in faith and believe and trust in the work of His Son will defo get in. Everyone else will be judged according to their own consciences. The scripture says that God's law is written upon their hearts and they and God know if they have broken it. If they have and know that they have there is forgiveness of those sins just for the asking. If they don't ask then they don't get but even then God has the right to let them in. Why? Because He died in order to obtain the right and still be consistent with His standard of justice. God can take anyone He wants to but He has declared that He will only take those who trust in Him.

Splendour

Hi bakkiesbotha,

We read in John 3,16:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Note is reads 'God so loved the world...' not 'God so loved the elect...'.

In 2 Peter we're told:

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
If God doesn't want any to perish, he has to at some point, give all an opportunity to make up their own mind.

What about those who haven't heard the message? I believe this is covered in Romans:

Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities— his eternal power and divine nature— have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Man from the beginning of time simply have to look at the universe to realise there is a God.

Tbh,I am more concerned about the western world where people have heard about Jesus and rejected him than I am about people who have never heard of him.

The world has a choice to say yay or nay and God at some point gives all an equal chance.

Jesus did say 'I am the way the truth and the life...' This

bakkiesbotha

Soul Winner wrote: »

Not sure who said it but the following quotes fits right here:

"The eternal Word became the living Word to become the spoken Word to become the written Word to become the preached Word."

If this Eternal Word is truly Eternal then it matters not at what time (as we would view it) that He comes. He is called the Lamb which was slain before the foundations of the world which means that this plan of redemption was ready to be put into place should it be called upon. He stepped forth from heaven's glory and left the throne of God and humbled Himself, also emptying Himself of all His power as the constrictive path towards the cross loomed. This might seem unnecessary to us as we might have done things differently, but our ways are not God's ways.

The point of this thread is that, for a Christian, the words of Jesus supersede everything else - all the covenants that went before Him, everything else that is written in the Bible, and everything that has been written by man ever since.

I don't believe any of the words in the above paragraph were actually said by Jesus, were they? They look like you wrote them yourself in fact, and, if you'll excuse me, they seem to consist of a lot of Christian purple prose - "he stepped forth from heaven's glory" and so forth - and nothing of substance.

Soul Winner wrote: »

The point is that anyone who does make it into heaven does so on the basis of Christ and not on anything that they can bring to the party.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that is the point. The point is that God has given us instructions, and all we can do is listen to them. We should not try to know His mind, or the "basis" for getting into heaven.

So let's talk only about instructions from God. God's instructions have always been: Do X and don't do Y and you will get to heaven. Now, X and Y have undergone many revisions, and the latest version of these that we are aware of is Jesus' version. Therefore, the words of Jesus are the instructions that apply to us, and the words of Jesus supersede everything else.

You either believe this or you don't. If you don't believe it, fine, but you are not a Christian if you don't.

Soul Winner wrote: »

God has guaranteed that those who live in faith and believe and trust in the work of His Son will defo get in.

Jesus said this, but it is not all of what he said. He also said that this is the only way in.

Soul Winner wrote: »

Everyone else will be judged according to their own consciences.

Jesus didn't say this, and it contradicts what He did say.

Soul Winner wrote: »

The scripture says that God's law is written upon their hearts and they and God know if they have broken it. If they have and know that they have there is forgiveness of those sins just for the asking.

I cannot find evidence that Jesus said this.

Soul Winner wrote: »

If they don't ask then they don't get but even then God has the right to let them in. Why? Because He died in order to obtain the right and still be consistent with His standard of justice.

Jesus didn't say this, and it doesn't even make sense. God having "rights" and dying "to obtain rights"??

Soul Winner wrote: »

God can take anyone He wants to but He has declared that He will only take those who trust in Him.

This is what Jesus said, and the only time where you have represented Him accurately. Those who do not trust in Him do not get in. Therefore those who never heard about Him didn't get in, don't get in, and won't get in.

Soul Winner

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

I don't believe any of the words in the above paragraph were actually said by Jesus, were they? They look like you wrote them yourself in fact, and, if you'll excuse me, they seem to consist of a lot of Christian purple prose – "he stepped forth from heaven's glory" and so forth - and nothing of substance.

So are you saying that Jesus didn't forsake the throne of glory? Then why does He say the following in John 17?

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." John 17:5

Purple prose my foot.

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I don't think that is the point. The point is that God has given us instructions, and all we can do is listen to them. We should not try to know His mind, or the "basis" for getting into heaven.

Not sure where you're going with this. We should listen to God's instructions but not be worried about getting into heaven? Nobody is trying to know His mind - He has revealed His mind to us already. If we have His spirit in us then we have His mind also. “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.” 1 Cor 2:16. And all we need do to get His spirit to dwell in us is to live by faith (trust) in His promises. “..so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith..” Ephesians 3:17

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

So let's talk only about instructions from God. God's instructions have always been: Do X and don't do Y and you will get to heaven. Now, X and Y have undergone many revisions, and the latest version of these that we are aware of is Jesus' version. Therefore, the words of Jesus are the instructions that apply to us, and the words of Jesus supersede everything else.

So what's your point?

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

You either believe this or you don't. If you don't believe it, fine, but you are not a Christian if you don't.

What in the world makes you think that I don't believe this?

Soul Winner wrote:

The scripture says that God's law is written upon their hearts and they and God know if they have broken it. If they have and know that they have there is forgiveness of those sins just for the asking.

Everyone else will be judged according to their own consciences.

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Jesus didn't say this, and it contradicts what He did say. I cannot find evidence that Jesus said this.

Ehem, it is written in Romans 2 by the chief apostle of the risen Christ:

“Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.” Romans 2:14-15

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Jesus didn't say this, and it doesn't even make sense. God having "rights" and dying "to obtain rights"??

Me thinks you should dust off the rest of your New Testament and read some of Paul’s Epistles. The gospels contain most of the sayings of Jesus during His earthly ministry but you must remember that He did a lot of talking after He was risen too, primarily to Paul. It was Paul who rescued the gospel which Jesus died to obtain. Please read a few books on the subject and come back to us. The sayings of Jesus have a place in all of our lives but if you want a proper dissertation of Christianity then I suggest you read Romans, Ephesians, Galatians and Hebrews. These books will furnish you with a greater understanding of why Jesus came and what it was that He actually accomplished in His death.

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

This is what Jesus said, and the only time where you have represented Him accurately. Those who do not trust in Him do not get in. Therefore those who never heard about Him didn't get in, don't get in, and won't get in.

Don’t be so quick to judge. Remember that other really important thing Jesus said in Matthew 7:1-2?

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

PDN

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

The point of this thread is that, for a Christian, the words of Jesus supersede everything else - all the covenants that went before Him, everything else that is written in the Bible, and everything that has been written by man ever since.

No, that isn't actually true. For a Christian, the revelation of Jesus Christ as described in the New Testament informs our understanding and interpretation of everything else that went before it.

This revelation includes the parts of the New Testament that do not contain the actual words of Jesus, but rather record what his closest followers reported about him and taught as a result of the impact He made on their lives.

Also, this is very different from superseding something. Christians still see the Old Testament as being God's Word and so a wonderful source of information about God and salvation.

Also, what men have said or written outside the canonical Scriptures, while not inspired in the same sense as Scripture, is not superseded by the words of Jesus. The insights and thoughts of great Christian thinkers (and also poets and song writers) throughout the ages often complement the revelation of Jesus and give us a greater insight into God's plans.

So, if you are looking to debate with people on the basis of the words of Jesus only, and nothing else, then this is probably the wrong forum to do so - because that does not reflect Christian beliefs.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that is the point. The point is that God has given us instructions, and all we can do is listen to them. We should not try to know His mind, or the "basis" for getting into heaven.

Who says we should not try to do that? Is that one of God's instructions - or an arbitrary rule from you?

So let's talk only about instructions from God.

No, as a moderator of this forum I'm saying let's not. Christian base their beliefs on the entire revelation of God's Word which is a multi-faceted revelation including stories, poetry, history, proverbs, commandments etc. You do not come into this forum, ask a question about a big subject like salvation, and then artificially demand that Christians only refer to "instructions" in their answers. I hope that is clear.

God's instructions have always been: Do X and don't do Y and you will get to heaven.

Really? Maybe you could refer to any Scripture that, before Jesus, says that you get to heaven by doing X or Y?

Now, X and Y have undergone many revisions, and the latest version of these that we are aware of is Jesus' version. Therefore, the words of Jesus are the instructions that apply to us, and the words of Jesus supersede everything else.

No, that is a completely false distortion of the Bible's progressive revelation concerning salvation, and a misrepresentation of the primacy of Jesus.

You either believe this or you don't. If you don't believe it, fine, but you are not a Christian if you don't.

No, we are Christians because we are believers in, and followers of, Christ - not because we don't fit your arbitrary definition of what a Christian might be based on your own rather peculiar misunderstanding of Scripture.

I cannot find evidence that Jesus said this.

Whether Jesus said it or not, from a Christian standpoint, is irrelevant if it is part of the New Testament revelation.

Again, if you want to argue along this lines then find an internet forum devoted to the beliefs of some obscure cult or sect that bases their beliefs only on the words of Jesus and nothing else. But please do not litter this forum with such arguments since this forum is dedicated to the discussion of Christian issues.

This is what Jesus said, and the only time where you have represented Him accurately. Those who do not trust in Him do not get in. Therefore those who never heard about Him didn't get in, don't get in, and won't get in.

The New Testament tells us that those who reject Christ do not receive eternal life. It also tells me that, having heard His Gospel, I cannot receive eternal life except by trusting Christ. It also reveals that all those who truly trust in Christ have eternal life.

It also reveals that Abraham and others were saved by Jesus Christ by trusting in the promises God gave of Christ's coming.

The New Testament does not tell us what happens to those who never heard about Christ. I can trust that God will judge them righteously - but any speculation about how that will work out is just that, speculation.

bakkiesbotha

If we believe in God, and heaven, and eternity, then our lives on earth pale into insignificance compared to our lives after death.

Therefore the overriding concern of any believer with their priorities straight must be the afterlife, and how to ensure they spend the afterlife in heaven and not in hell. I'm not saying this is the only issue for a believer, just the most important one.

I can't think of any arguments against the above, but if I am wrong, please show me where.

So, if we accept that getting into heaven is the primary concern of a believer, then the most important information a believer needs is information about how to secure his/her place in heaven during the afterlife. And this information is contained in the Bible.

Now no disrespect to the Bible, but it is not internally consistent. Many passages contradict other passages, and where such an important issue is at stake, a believer needs to have clear, unambiguous information.

My understanding is is that these contradictions can be reconciled by reading the Bible as a series of covenants (agreements) between God and man. There was a very simple covenant with Adam and Eve, for example: they were already in paradise and were free to stay there for eternity; the only condition was that they were not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But of course, they couldn't even keep this simple rule.

As man failed to adhere to these covenants, God kept giving man chances with new covenants. There was a covenant with Noah and his descendants, under which certain conditions applied, and a covenant with Moses and his, under which different conditions applied. And, as far as any of us is aware, the covenant currently in force, the covenant that God has with us, and not the ancient Israelites, is the Jesus covenant.

So it seems logical to me that, in cases where there is any uncertainty, or contradiction, the words of Jesus should be the ultimate authority.

So, for example: if in the book of Leviticus it says that a menstruating woman should be stoned to death for some infraction, and if Jesus says let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and judge not, lest ye be judged, then, as Christians, we follow the teachings of Christ, and ignore the regulations that applied under a previous covenant.

Because if Darwinians follow the teachings of Charles Darwin, and Keynesians follow the teachings of J.M. Keynes, and Malthusians follow the teaching of Thomas Malthus, then how can Christians not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ above all else?

If you are a Christian, then you believe that Jesus is God. Insights and songs and poems and commantaries are all very well, but they are still the works of man, and if you are any kind of believer, you can't give them equal weighting with the Word of God.

The Word of God supersedes the works of man

Soul Winner

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

If we believe in God, and heaven, and eternity, then our lives on earth pale into insignificance compared to our lives after death.

Therefore the overriding concern of any believer with their priorities straight must be the afterlife, and how to ensure they spend the afterlife in heaven and not in hell. I'm not saying this is the only issue for a believer, just the most important one.

I can't think of any arguments against the above, but if I am wrong, please show me where.

So, if we accept that getting into heaven is the primary concern of a believer, then the most important information a believer needs is information about how to secure his/her place in heaven during the afterlife. And this information is contained in the Bible.

Now no disrespect to the Bible, but it is not internally consistent. Many passages contradict other passages, and where such an important issue is at stake, a believer needs to have clear, unambiguous information.

My understanding is is that these contradictions can be reconciled by reading the Bible as a series of covenants (agreements) between God and man. There was a very simple covenant with Adam and Eve, for example: they were already in paradise and were free to stay there for eternity; the only condition was that they were not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But of course, they couldn't even keep this simple rule.

As man failed to adhere to these covenants, God kept giving man chances with new covenants. There was a covenant with Noah and his descendants, under which certain conditions applied, and a covenant with Moses and his, under which different conditions applied. And, as far as any of us is aware, the covenant currently in force, the covenant that God has with us, and not the ancient Israelites, is the Jesus covenant.

So it seems logical to me that, in cases where there is any uncertainty, or contradiction, the words of Jesus should be the ultimate authority.

So, for example: if in the book of Leviticus it says that a menstruating woman should be stoned to death for some infraction, and if Jesus says let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and judge not, lest ye be judged, then, as Christians, we follow the teachings of Christ, and ignore the regulations that applied under a previous covenant.

Because if Darwinians follow the teachings of Charles Darwin, and Keynesians follow the teachings of J.M. Keynes, and Malthusians follow the teaching of Thomas Malthus, then how can Christians not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ above all else?

If you are a Christian, then you believe that Jesus is God. Insights and songs and poems and commantaries are all very well, but they are still the works of man, and if you are any kind of believer, you can't give them equal weighting with the Word of God.

The Word of God supersedes the works of man

The risen Christ sent Paul to testify of Him at Rome and in other places so reading what Paul says about Him in his epistles will be most beneficial to you and will even serve to augment the sayings you are already familiar with of Jesus as revealed in the Gospel accounts.

bakkiesbotha

Soul Winner wrote: »

The risen Christ sent Paul to testify of Him at Rome and in other places so reading what Paul says about Him in his epistles will be most beneficial to you and will even serve to augment the sayings you are already familiar with of Jesus as revealed in the Gospel accounts.

I don't see how the epistles can 'augment' what Jesus said. They can only either restate the things that He said, or say things that He didn't say.

You can hardly believe that God came down to earth to save us all from sin and got a few details wrong, or forgot to mention a few things, can you?

PDN

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

If we believe in God, and heaven, and eternity, then our lives on earth pale into insignificance compared to our lives after death.

Therefore the overriding concern of any believer with their priorities straight must be the afterlife, and how to ensure they spend the afterlife in heaven and not in hell. I'm not saying this is the only issue for a believer, just the most important one.

I can't think of any arguments against the above, but if I am wrong, please show me where.

So, if we accept that getting into heaven is the primary concern of a believer, then the most important information a believer needs is information about how to secure his/her place in heaven during the afterlife. And this information is contained in the Bible.

Now no disrespect to the Bible, but it is not internally consistent. Many passages contradict other passages, and where such an important issue is at stake, a believer needs to have clear, unambiguous information.

My understanding is is that these contradictions can be reconciled by reading the Bible as a series of covenants (agreements) between God and man. There was a very simple covenant with Adam and Eve, for example: they were already in paradise and were free to stay there for eternity; the only condition was that they were not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But of course, they couldn't even keep this simple rule.

As man failed to adhere to these covenants, God kept giving man chances with new covenants. There was a covenant with Noah and his descendants, under which certain conditions applied, and a covenant with Moses and his, under which different conditions applied. And, as far as any of us is aware, the covenant currently in force, the covenant that God has with us, and not the ancient Israelites, is the Jesus covenant.

So it seems logical to me that, in cases where there is any uncertainty, or contradiction, the words of Jesus should be the ultimate authority.

So, for example: if in the book of Leviticus it says that a menstruating woman should be stoned to death for some infraction, and if Jesus says let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and judge not, lest ye be judged, then, as Christians, we follow the teachings of Christ, and ignore the regulations that applied under a previous covenant.

Because if Darwinians follow the teachings of Charles Darwin, and Keynesians follow the teachings of J.M. Keynes, and Malthusians follow the teaching of Thomas Malthus, then how can Christians not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ above all else?

If you are a Christian, then you believe that Jesus is God. Insights and songs and poems and commantaries are all very well, but they are still the works of man, and if you are any kind of believer, you can't give them equal weighting with the Word of God.

The Word of God supersedes the works of man

You are entitled to your opinion, but that is not what Christians believe. So using that as an argument here on the Christianity forum is pretty pointless.

Christians believe that all Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for instruction, reproof, correction and training in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16).

The words of Jesus, together with the rest of the NT, provide the revelation by which we understand Leviticus etc, but the Old Testament is not superseded.

TravelJunkie

Bakkies I do agree with Soulwinner and PDN about you reading the rest of the new testament, besides christ's word. there is a major revelation there, if you will only open your mind to it.

Another thing I would strongly disagree with you is that a christian's main motive for following christ is to get into heaven. For me personally, and for others I'm sure, a relationship with God completes me and is what satisfies my soul. Like the feeling you get when you spend time with your first and only love.

If you really are that concerned about people who haven't heard the word of God perhaps you should look into making a missionary journey, even if only for a few weeks. There are many church and other christian organisations that go to remote parts of the world to spread the gospel.

philologos

I'm still very much working on sharpening my Biblical knowledge, but I think examining mankinds relationship with God on a deeper level can help us learn more about Him whether that is in the Torah, or in the Gospels. There are certain key themes that are consistent throughout, and there are certain things that differ between Old and New Covenants.

Hence why Paul found it necessary to write:

1 Timothy 1:8 wrote:

Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately.

Soul Winner

Also:

"It was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." Ephesians 4:11-13