Some tricky members of the family tree...

rhapsody

So I'm busy looking for info on various folk in the family, the usual parish records, the lovely new 1911 census info, GRO index etc. I'm stuck on sources for a few of them though:

1. My great great grandfather apparently came from Wales or Bath, was in Eng army, moved over here (don't know why), converted from Prot to Cath and then got married (in 1895) etc etc. I would think that these are all recorded events, but don't know where to look.
Would he have been 'baptised' when he changed religion?
Where do you go for English army records?
Where is it registered when someone changes their country of residence?

2. My great uncle was in prison twice- Mounjoy & Portlaoise, once for tax things, once for IRA things. Where would I find court records, prison records? Annoyingly his sister was apparently given all the court stuff but she burnt it all cos of the shame it brought on the family!

I've done internet searches but can't find anything useful for either. Alot of the English sites seem to be fee-paying.
Any help appreciated, this family tree stuff is tough!

Ponster

rhapsody wrote: »

1. My great great grandfather apparently came from Wales or Bath, was in Eng army, moved over here (don't know why), converted from Prot to Cath and then got married (in 1895) etc etc. I would think that these are all recorded events, but don't know where to look.
Would he have been 'baptised' when he changed religion?
Where do you go for English army records?
Where is it registered when someone changes their country of residence?

Sign up for the free two weeks trial at www.Ancestry.co.uk (you'll need a creditcard but it won't actually cost you anything) and there you can get British army records and census returns from 1841 onwards where you will most likely find your g-g-grandfather.

pinkypinky

Rhapsody,

The ancestry idea is an excellent one, just make sure to cancel your trial within the 14 days or they will charge you. The army record will likely tell you when he married, if he was still in the army when he married, along with a place/date of birth and next of kin on his attestation document (when he joined up).

You can also search in the LDS indexes for the marriage reference, it will help though if you also know his wife's name to cross-reference, and then you can order from the GRO. If you think they married in the UK, you can try the http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ site to find the index reference and then order from their GRO. It's more expensive but quicker than Ireland's, and you can order online with a credit card.

There'd be no record of changing countries, as Ireland and Britain were the same country then.

rhapsody

Sorry, I wasn't clear about him, I do have his marriage cert( I put in my time in the Lombard St. GRO a couple of years ago!). He was married here, apparently he had to convert before getting married.
Glad to hear there'll be so much info from when he joined the army! If I do the 2 wk trial now, will they stop me doing another trial another time yes?

pinkypinky

Rhapsody,

There won't definitely be information on him. Ancestry has not completed all the scanning all the records and not all records survive. To give you an example, I have 2 great-grandfathers who fought in WW1. One enlisted just for the war and his record was on Ancesty, the other was in the army afterwards as well but his isn't. The first place to check the Medal Roll Index and see if you get a good hit. You can see the list results without registering but to get any detail, you'll need to sign up with a credit card. I don't know about a second free trial, if you used a different email and/or card, it would probably be possible. A subscription to Ancestry wouldn't be worth it long term because they don't have much in the way of Irish records.

Pinky

rhapsody

Hey folks,

Thanks for your suggestions. I did indeed sign up for my trial on ancestry.co.uk, though its not looking too promising yet. I just have so little to go on, and there seem to be many many men in the Eng army back then with his name! I've tried looking up the different regiments to see which would have served over here but alas no joy yet. I'll keep going

Ponster

If you post everything you know about him here I'm sure that some will help and try and find him.

CD87

rhapsody wrote: »

So I'm busy looking for info on various folk in the family, the usual parish records, the lovely new 1911 census info, GRO index etc. I'm stuck on sources for a few of them though:

1. My great great grandfather apparently came from Wales or Bath, was in Eng army, moved over here (don't know why), converted from Prot to Cath and then got married (in 1895) etc etc. I would think that these are all recorded events, but don't know where to look.
Would he have been 'baptised' when he changed religion?
Where do you go for English army records?
Where is it registered when someone changes their country of residence?

2. My great uncle was in prison twice- Mounjoy & Portlaoise, once for tax things, once for IRA things. Where would I find court records, prison records? Annoyingly his sister was apparently given all the court stuff but she burnt it all cos of the shame it brought on the family!

I've done internet searches but can't find anything useful for either. Alot of the English sites seem to be fee-paying.
Any help appreciated, this family tree stuff is tough!

Hi,
I do a lot of family history research with an emphasis on military research. Hopefully this might answer some of your questions:

1. What regiment was he in and when was he discharged. If he was infantry discharged to pension pre 1913, his attestation/service papers should be in WO97 in the National Archives Kew, they are original documents only available for consultation in Kew. For the period you are looking at they will be in alphabetical order. If he served until the turn of the century it would also be worth checking out medals rolls particularly the Queen's South Africa and King's South Africa, they will be in regimental order and are on microfilm in Kew.

2. Most of the old Mountjoy registers are in the National Archives in Dublin, I haven't looked at them in a long time but they are in chronological order so you would need to know an approximate date he went in and it would just give basic information. If he had an unusual name it would also be well worth having a search on the Irish Times archive, you can get it for free in the National Library in town. Could be worth getting onto the archives in Cathal Brugha see if they have anything on him as well

Pinkypinky,
Just wondering what period the second man you were looking for served during ? If it was post 1921 Kew (or ancestry) won't hold his record. You would have to get it under freedom of information.

pinkypinky

CD87,

Thanks for the advice. I actually hired a researcher at Kew earlier this year to do some work for me. He got the papers for that great-grandfather and his father for me. I had been planning to go over myself but hiring a researcher turned out a lot cheaper than I expected.

Thanks,
PinkyPinky

rhapsody

CD87 wrote: »

Hi,
I do a lot of family history research with an emphasis on military research. Hopefully this might answer some of your questions:

1. What regiment was he in and when was he discharged. If he was infantry discharged to pension pre 1913, his attestation/service papers should be in WO97 in the National Archives Kew, they are original documents only available for consultation in Kew. For the period you are looking at they will be in alphabetical order. If he served until the turn of the century it would also be worth checking out medals rolls particularly the Queen's South Africa and King's South Africa, they will be in regimental order and are on microfilm in Kew.

2. Most of the old Mountjoy registers are in the National Archives in Dublin, I haven't looked at them in a long time but they are in chronological order so you would need to know an approximate date he went in and it would just give basic information. If he had an unusual name it would also be well worth having a search on the Irish Times archive, you can get it for free in the National Library in town. Could be worth getting onto the archives in Cathal Brugha see if they have anything on him as well
QUOTE]

Hi CD87, thanks for coming along!
Re g.g. grandfather- I really don't know anything other than "he was in the English army"- according to two great aunties. I'm guessing he was stationed here. I don't know when he was discharged, he was married in 1897 and started a family straight away and lived here after that, so he must have left the army at that time? When I look him up on ancestry.co.uk I get around 25 guys of his name (not to mention many more with a middle initial etc), and what regiment they were in. I tried googling a few of the regiments to see if any were stationed over here but no luck yet. Would he get his army pension if he was living here? Also I don't think he was in the army v. long- his birth date is sketchy but going from his approx age at death, and his age on 1911 census, I think he got married aged 18- 22ish.

About my great uncle- I think I will try & look through the national archives for Mountjoy info. Again I don't know when he was in there- no-one in the family is very sure on dates for anything, especially when its something they dont want me digging up.

Ponster

rhapsody wrote: »

When I look him up on ancestry.co.uk I get around 25 guys of his name (not to mention many more with a middle initial etc), and what regiment they were in. I tried googling a few of the regiments to see if any were stationed over here but no luck yet.

Does ancestry have any records on these people? DoB, place of birth or maybe even discharge papers?

rhapsody

Ponster wrote: »

Does ancestry have any records on these people? DoB, place of birth or maybe even discharge papers?

It just gives me the regiment or corps (e.g. Royal Field Artillery) , and the regiment number.

Ponster

pinkypinky can you confirm that Ancestry don't have any scanned docs for pre-WWI servicemen ?

pinkypinky

I'm not 100% sure but that has been my experience.
This list would seem to be the complete "what they have".

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/CardCatalog.aspx?cat=39

pjproby

pinkypinky thanks for the link to http://www.freebmd.org.uk/- i found a man there i have been searching for . Interestingly his death does not appear on other sites. I got a copy of his death cert and found his family on the 1911 UK census and his wife's family on the 1881 UK census.
The 1881 information came from the Mormon site.