Systema M4, where can I get one?

Soberts

I am looking at getting a Systema M4, it can be an M4A1, a CQB, I dont really mind. If possible a kit one, they are cheaper than the assembled ones! I have found sites which sell them but they wont ship to Ireland. If I asked one of the irish retailers, would they do a custom order for me? Would customs stop it arriving to me? Thanks in advance

tonyj_mc

Soberts wrote: »

I am looking at getting a Systema M4, it can be an M4A1, a CQB, I dont really mind. If possible a kit one, they are cheaper than the assembled ones! I have found sites which sell them but they wont ship to Ireland. If I asked one of the irish retailers, would they do a custom order for me? Would customs stop it arriving to me? Thanks in advance

I'm sure one the irish retailers could get their hands on one for you drop them an email,
would customs stop it? Probably would stop for vat/other charges but should get through ok.
I know redwolf have them in all forms have a look but customs will bend you over for charges

Firekitten

Most probably could order it for you... Although you would need it downgrading as its stock over legal fps... However, not to disuade you from the PTW route... There are better guns, for better value available... the systema line are designed to work at 500ish fps (550) and thus suffer performance issues at 1j from the ones I see...

Soberts

Thanks for the replys. Why do they suffer at the 1J mark, any ideas?
How much would I be looking at for you to order one in for me?

Puding

all depends what cylinder there shipped with, the ones we have sourced/can source come stock with the m90 cylinder shooting about 310 - 315, i would not say the issues stem from firing at 1j as such the issues i have seen seem to permeate the complete line

before investing such a large amount of money i would advice holding off and waiting for the upcoming clone see how that turns out and then make up your mind

Firekitten

Pudding is correct... To be frank... there are no advantages in a systema, beyond the name at this point... Infact, If i recall, systema stopped manufacturing thier weapons... thier market is lost. Wait on the new electric blow back aegs, and gbb aegs to refine and get better... To be honest, the only 'advantage' (Read, cool factors) the PTW's had, were they were real dimentions... (took real parts) but so are gbbs... and that they stopped firing, once the mag was empty... (a plethora of guns do that now)

Question... Were you after a systema for a 'really good airsoft gun', or to say ' i has a systema, my penis must be mahoosive'? The only to camps of owners / prospective buyers i've seen, and both are missing the plot hehe.

Bernie Mac

there was another advantage i noticed from an observers point of view and that was the range! they have an amazing hop up unit and (from what i was told) due to the metal piston head you had to use heavier bbs as .2g just split in have so as well as that it is more expensive to fuel but you wont have the problem of teh slightest breeze taking your rounds 3meters off target :rolleyes:

Soberts

Firekitten wrote: »

Pudding is correct... To be frank... there are no advantages in a systema, beyond the name at this point... Infact, If i recall, systema stopped manufacturing thier weapons... thier market is lost. Wait on the new electric blow back aegs, and gbb aegs to refine and get better... To be honest, the only 'advantage' (Read, cool factors) the PTW's had, were they were real dimentions... (took real parts) but so are gbbs... and that they stopped firing, once the mag was empty... (a plethora of guns do that now)

Question... Were you after a systema for a 'really good airsoft gun', or to say ' ? The only to camps of owners / prospective buyers i've seen, and both are missing the plot hehe.

I have an SRC hk416 which I think is great! I suppose it must be the
'i has a systema, my penis must be mahoosive' lol! Thanks for the advice, I will wait for a clone!
I saw your review of your TAR, would you recomend it? I know the sight is S**T, but overall?

zero19

Systema are an awful waste of money, i wouldn't touch one with a large barge pole...

TheDoc

This is something me and the lads in the shop disagree with all the time.

First off, Systema has stopped manafacturing their airsoft products, so they are not going to be available for long, and spare parts will be a nightmare.

You do not ever " downgrade" a Systema, they come with various different cyclinders that can be fired at different velocities, and just so happens to match alot of European countries limits.

I have used a Systema at the 1 joule, and I've used them at the higher joule, and for me I've never handled or fired anything better. They feel rock solid and so comfortable to use. They are completely customisable with the likes of magpul moe's and the likes. But most impressively is their performance.

One of the Israeli dudes in Berget gave me a lengthy firing test with his one, which was not internally upgraded, was just stock. He popped in his 1j cylinder and we went out and picked some targets and were firing. Hes gun was outrageously accurate and the hop up was just outrageous.

They are by far the best AEG I've ever witnessed, even the sound of them is just " wow".

Granted there is very few Systema owners in this country, so I'd pick wisely when you hear reports on them from people on this board. Some people have a tendancy to just bash Systema because of the name. They are overpriced, there is no doubt about that, but remember these are rifles that were built specifically for the US training market to train SWAT and military personal. They just released some variants to the airsoft market, and although they are pulling that line, they will still be made for the original market in the US.

Like I said its an arguement I cannot understand in fairness. It is a lot of money, but for me theres nothing out there to rival it. I've fired and used just about every AEG and manufacturer out there and I can tell you in my opinion there is nothing better.

Their unique design can sometimes be problematic, but if your someone who will travel abroad a lot or just enjoys having a very realistic armalite with the capacity to upgrade aesthetically everything, its probably for you.

I'd just be vary of buying one now, because of the production halt,that spare parts might be a problem. From reading around it seems the cylinders have capacity to break, but should be easily replaceable. ( according to the us market) Other then that they are robust durable pieces.

I'm keeping my eye out on numerous places that run similar things like boards adverts, for when I know I'm going to see one go on the cheap, then I'll jump on it.

If not to use just for the fact I'll have a piece out of production.

Their is the possability that to get rid of the last batches of stuff, there could be a huge systema sale, then again, they could raise the prices outrageously.

But speaking to players abroad , sweden and the uk, where airsoft is going along time, ICS and Systema are the two big names. And with good reason. Every second gun in Sweden was a Systema or ICS.

Ireland is still heavily in the clone market, and will be for some time, with people reluctant to splash big cash on their rifles. And it seems the only prejudiced remarks against these two brands are their price tag. Although I must admit ICS seems alot poorer when you put it up with a Systema.

If you want one, I'd say don't ask advice here, go look internationally, some american forums and European ones. You'll get much better advice from users who have them along time and where the brand is the main name, and you'll quickly see the reasons why.

TheDoc

Soberts wrote: »

I have an SRC hk416 which I think is great! I suppose it must be the
'i has a systema, my penis must be mahoosive' lol! Thanks for the advice, I will wait for a clone!
I saw your review of your TAR, would you recomend it? I know the sight is S**T, but overall?

I actually forgot obviously to mention the clone. I do not know how or what that is going to be like.

The attraction to me with Systema was the fact they were all standard with tightbores, outragous hop up units, cyclinder capacity and a 1:1 replica with a real M4.

I myself will hold of for the clone to see how it fares ( if it arrives within the next year id be amazed) but I fear it is only going to let me down when I think back to a real systema.

Masada

is "outragous" your new word doc?

Beast ASI

Great post Doc, completely agree.

zero19 wrote: »

Systema are an awful waste of money, i wouldn't touch one with a large barge pole...

Reasons?

Systema's are a strange kettle of fish, they, like most other airsoft guns have their problems (Most notably motor reliability) but when they are working they are an extremely hard gun to beat. The biggest problem for some people is the price, and the majority of Systema owners would say it's worth it. I'm on my second Systema now and I think they are completely overpriced for what they are, yet I still paid for it, merely because there isn't anything else in the market to really compare to it - The clone PTW's are full of problems at the minute (Celcius) and if your buying off someone like Tackleberry on the PTW forums then your getting a warranty if things do go wrong, which you might not get from buying elsewhere.

Motor - They tend to die very quickly and they don't have the usual Systema quality since they are outsourced and will need modded before they are even used. Newer ones seem to be a bit better now though.

You'll need to send your motor to Tackleberry in England to get this fixed.

Once you get one, you wouldn't want to use anything else.

As far as I'm aware, Systema stopped production of AEG parts for a few months this year, but PTW parts & guns are still ongoing. There was a big USA shortage due to ZShot (American distributor) having a few problems with Systema forgetting to paint the flashhiders orange.

Edit: Just to say, there are two clones being made at the minute. The A&K - Which there hasn't been any/much info at all on at this point and the Celcius. The Celcius has actually been released and been out for a while - The reason you won't have seen them for sale or heard much about them is because they've had a lot of problems and still do. They're a clone of the 2007 Systema design and have had a few problems most notably with the ECU - Firing 2 shots on semi etc etc. Celcius approached Redwolf to carry the CTW apparently and they refused.

E.g here is a for sale thread on a Canadian forum of one

"F/S: Celsius CTW's to repair or use as PTW parts
i have three early production Celsius CTW's (serial #'s 6, 14 & 15) that are in outstanding condition externally, but had internal issues right from the factory. all three do work, but quite frankly, sound like crap, and often shoot multiple BB's on semi-auto (Celsius said it was an electronic issue causing the multi-feeds)."

zero19

The reason i stated, the price, far too high for a toy if you ask me, also with this new gbbr trend they will become a thing of the past, also as stated they aint in production anymore.

Beast ASI

zero19 wrote: »

The reason i stated, the price, far too high for a toy if you ask me, also with this new gbbr trend they will become a thing of the past, also as stated they aint in production anymore.

They are, they wouldn't have just improved their motors if they didn't or make changes to their challenge kits. Your saying that GBB will take over AEG's? Considering the first airsoft guns in the 80's were Classic's (Gas) which then has moved to AEG's, it's pretty unlikely that will happen. Gas in mag systems are too inefficient to replace AEG's while externally powered classics, although are still selling, have fallen in popularity hugely.

zero19

Beast ASI wrote: »

They are, they wouldn't have just improved their motors if they didn't or make changes to their challenge kits. Your saying that GBB will take over AEG's? Considering the first airsoft guns in the 80's were Classic's (Gas) which then has moved to AEG's, it's pretty unlikely that will happen. Gas in mag systems are too inefficient to replace AEG's while externally powered classics, although are still selling, have fallen in popularity hugely.

Nope not saying GBBRs are going to replace AEGs as a mainstay of joe airsoftfan at all, especially in sunny Ireland. I meant within law enforcement training where the systema found it's niche...